Does a fool know himself?

I guess we don't have many "wise" men floating around anymore...

they all died of dehydration rather than admit ignorance.

My, don't we have an ego?

lions ARE endangered;

and run from humans.

"The wise man can draw nectar even from poison." Where do you dig this stuff up???

better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

You have an awfully large mouth for such a constricted head.

Hello Jesse the Thief - December 31, 1998
Vj ~ You are back, one last time perhaps; anyway, contrary to your name you can never steal wisdom Jesse, you have to earn it.

Oh, PLEASE, Vj, this is getting pathetic

You assault phrases that were OBVIOUSLY meant as jokes,

you win the argument in your own head through sheer lasting power.

Well, you have met your match, for raframk is here

Any one who has the arrogance to strut around calling every one and his brother a fool, needs to stop and think about what is coming out of his mouth.

"I may not be as wise as you..." PLEASE DON'T ENCOURAGE HIM :)

Hello Amagine - December 30, 1998
You know Vj One of the best things in life is to be able to go through all of its pains and joys and not be able to figure them all out.

If we want to live with kindness and love in our lives that’s what we must emit.

Yes, you have proven that.

How sadly true

I would wager lions know little but the drive for survival.

Ah, but the "wise" are so in your opinion, therefore you are not possibly capable of making such a judgement with certainty.

If you possess the wisdom you claim, you should already know.

I blame your father for your existence; your ego is your own doing.

I will never know if am truly wise or not

for I would have no way of knowing if I were a fool

.(EVERY wise person knows THAT, stupid head)

Wouldn't dream of it.

I feel more wiser already!

without any real purpose other than to attempt to bore your opponent to death.

If you have nothing better to do than to nurse your ego, go somewhere else where you might be able to find some one who will buy your nonsense.

And to say that God is useless, and lazy would be blasphemy, and thereby causing the wrath of God.

How come you answer with questions and never defend your 'religion'?

and if your religion is the true religion, how was it originated?

your tiny mind, or the un-fathomable mind of God?

VJ is not wise

he is stuck up in pride and by calling himself wise has become a fool.

"in proclaiming to be wise they became fools"

In hinduism, she and screw and offer a pujah-screw and offer a pujah for a lifetime.

if a person sin without knowing it, it's forgivable.

If a person sin and knows it's a sin before he/she knows it, it is not forgiven.

You are the persecutor of the righteous.

He who knows not and knows not he knows not (in this case-you) is an unmitigated fool and should be shunned by the world.

You are truly lost.

None is Jesus's puppet.

However, in hinduism, the lesser class is the puppet of the middle class.

There is no class system in Christianity.

We have a choice

In Hinduism, a Bramhin is superior even if he's a dog.

Sometimes righteous people fall sick because of the works of the devil and his ambassadors (you're one of them) - that person will still be saved.

You know you wouldn't be saved because you refuse to accept this and is trying to poison the minds of the righteous.

Righteous people, let not the devil sway you.

Man was provided with a free will, which God has given us.

I have chosen to believe the Holy Scriptures & what they contain.

My decision was not entirely a logical one because Christ cannot be totally explained within the context of human reasoning.

Gods essence is unapproachable to man. His thoughts; Higher than our thoughts. His ways are higher than our ways. These are the mysteries of faith

That which man cannot see.

It is only through the mystery & miracle of salvation that man is saved from his sins & sees all things in a different light my friend.

As to equal reward amongst His people. All who accept Christ receive the gift of eternal life.

The Holy Scriptures say that there will be a judgement of the ones whose name is written in the Lambs Book Of Life & the ones whose names are not.

You sound like an intelligent individual & deserved an attempted intelligent answer.

You will not be disappointed.

He waits patiently even to the end of our existence on the earth.

He wills that no one would perish but have everlasting life.

Life is about Love. I'm talking about true love here.

God loves us because we are his creation just as a parent loves their child.

However, when the child places itself as an equal to the parent then it is chaos. . It builds jealousy and anger, and sometimes, even hate.

Yes it's possible to hate someone that you love just as it is possible for you to hate yourself.

God loves his creation and because of tha, He offers us every chance to turn back to Him and recognize that we are His creation made in His likeness.

If I had become so enraged, so full of evil, and so blinded by humanism that I became such a man as Hitler, then perhaps at some point I might realize that I was wrong.

I would then beg for forgiveness, for God's love, for a real life that would edify God.

And even though I wouldn't deserve it... it is likely that God would forgive me just as he would forgive any other sin when a child of God turns back to Him.

I would still deserve death in the eyes of man. But in the eyes of God, I would be redeemed.

Can evil be rated?

How do we know that your actions haven't effected hundreds of millions of people both for the worse both in the present and the future?

But yet... God would forgive even you.

There's no excuse for evil, but because of Christ, we have redemption.

Can a fool make a fool of God?

Only in his own mind when he considers himself equal to his creator.

I hold that ALL human beings have an inherent ability to DEFINE and PRACTICE wisdom.

That is they can develop a practical ability to use systematic reasoning in addressing the issue of their existence. It is to that inherent potential that I address my advocacy.

And, next you show you 'homo-centric' bias. Both "apes" and "wolves" display many humane elements in their behaviors.

They are loyal, are good at parenting, and exhibit patterns of reasoned behavior.

They are an evolutionary essential for our survival, but to not recognize them in other spiecies is the height of arrogance.

As to a civilized existence meaning that there are limits on the nature of our personal behaviors, that is a 'given', un-disputable.

But in evolved human forms of governance there is always a right of systematic appeals, to a (supposedly) un-biased third party; and there are built in safe-guards against tyranny.

This is not so with a god (Earthly or 'Heavenly") ordered society. They are by nature dictatorial, with only an appeal to the dictator(s) being possible, although un-wise.

The electronic democracy, based on a practical humane - ist ethic; that I advocate, is meant to be the next step in that humane evolution of humane society.

It would be a step away from all arbitrary authority. And, into a form of governance where the very basic determiner of the ethicacy of ALL social and economic policy and practice, would be the following question. Does it contribute to an environment of humane INTER-dependence between people, and between people and THE environment.

Do you think He wants to look stupid?

It looks like your really bored and need a board to complete your day.

No you’re wrong about Satan as the created rock.

From all studies I gather he was an angel with many gifts that were pleasing both to God and to other angels.

Satan [as you call him] fell from God's given place and survives only because of God's righteousness.

God made no claim to his dissension and as we can only go with God's word on the topic, I must conclude that Satan’s attributes are purely Satan’s and none other.

Your statement on God's intellect certainly struck me with a message to give to you!

First century Jewish children were taught to demonstrate their knowledge of a subject by asking astute questions about it.

that all who heard twelve year old Jesus were amazed at His understanding and His answers even though the previous verse clearly says that all He was doing was listening and asking questions.

Jesus was giving His answers in the form of questions.

So might I ask if your are asking if Jesus Christ is Lord, liar or a lunatic?

"It is not His teachings which make Jesus so remarkable, although these would be enough to give Him distinction.

It is obvious to any reader of the New Testament that Jesus taught, although His teachings were about the kingdom of God and about human conduct and about God.

He either knew it was false or He did not know it was false.

The evidence is clearly in favor of Jesus as Lord.

There needs to be a moral honesty in consideration of Jesus.

I might find delight in continuing. That is with your consent!

He was and is after all a historical figure regardless of who recorded His history.

His distinction is more noted by his popularity in this age because of the large following but the same can be said of Mohammed, Buddha and Krishna. The authors of the above are bias not to make the same distinctions of the others.
Kathy -Large following? Is there something I've missed in my studies?!

From all I have understood of the writings in the Bible and elsewhere show Jesus followers were very few. Even his own race of people rejected His message.

"Again, the devil taketh him up unto an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;" Matt 4:8.

How is it that someone could follow the leadership of those you write about when there objective is to claim only self satisfaction with little to no satisfaction to a fulfillment to life itself?

That a single person of only small to little worth to anyone could somehow gain by subjecting to the teachings that state your status in life is all your worth?

Wisdom is measured by a knowledge that is in harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with natural laws. According to the Bible, whoever wrote it, these laws are violated and so are the attributes of God. Furthermore, there are numerous occasions where the New Testament is in contradiction with the Old Testament and no intelligent person can accept any inconsistency of an Omnipotent and Omniscient God.
Kathy - Here I could not possibly agree.

Wisdom is measured by knowledge,

however the best of wisdom is achieved from a knowledgeable source and not therefore experienced.

To abide by another's authority in all given acceptance without allowing foolish pride to ambush your learning experience, this is, true wisdom.

The Bible teaches that God is all knowing in every matter

and in as much as we are given free will to gain further understanding of this, we are asked to accept His authority when looking for knowledge.

Bible contradictions is one of my special interest, perhaps you might share a few of your claims to contradiction so that I might understand exactly where you might be misled.

Indus civilization was probably in decline when it was destroyed by Aryan invaders from the NW,

speaking an Indo-European language from which most languages of Pakistan, N India, and Bangladesh descend.

Led by a warrior aristocracy whose legendary deeds are in the Rig Veda,

the Aryans spread E and S, bringing their sky gods, elaborate priestly (Brahman) ritual, and the beginnings of the caste system; local customs and beliefs were assimilated by the conquerors.

Hitler claimed racial superiority for the Aryans, of which he said the Germans were the highest form. As the master race, they were told, they had the right to dominate all nations they subjected. Hitler successfully appealed to a Germany that was humiliated by defeat in World War I (1914-1918) and the Treaty of Versailles of 1919.

Veda is any of the oldest Hindu sacred texts, composed in Sanskrit and gathered into four collections. The oldest literature of Indian thought is the Veda, a collection of poems and hymns composed over several generations, beginning as early as 1200 BC.

Indian philosophy was more decisively established with the Upanishads, the first of which may have been written in the 7th century BC. In the Upanishads, views about the nature of God and one's true self were explored.

The Veda, including the Upanishads, a collection of rituals and mythological and philosophical commentaries; a vast number of epic stories about gods, heroes, and saints, including the Bhagavadgita, a part of the Mahabharata, and the Ramayana; and a great variety of other literature.

Kathy … If I am not mistaken the Torah , along with the Pentateuch outdate these writings.

Reading your referenced web site makes a claim that it's writings are the oldest known! Now may I ask is this what you call seeking out the truth?

_
1. It must exist in its entirety from the beginning of creation for all of mankind.
   Oppose - Millions born before Moses were deprived of the 'Ten Commandments'
2. It must conform with natural laws.
   Oppose - The cause of the physical body is the reproductive element - any other method of conception as 'virgin birth' is a breach to this law.
3. It must be in harmony with reasoning.
   Oppose - Incest is immoral now and it had to be the same also in the beginning (creation of one man and one woman).
4. It must be in harmony with science.
   Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 (biblical age) years old.
5. Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences :-
   • Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
   • Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
   • Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.
   • History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryan) civilization.

"So very marked and significant are contradictions between the first three Gospels and the fourth, that if the former are to be taken as giving in main a true picture, the latter can neither be historical nor the production of an eye witness." Rev. Sunderland.

S. Estborn in "Gripped by Christ" explains further, he relates that Anath Nath who studied both the Bible and the "Shastras." Two biblical themes in particular deeply engaged his mind: first, the reality of the Incarnation, and second, the Atonement for human sin. These doctrines he sought to harmonize with Hindu Scriptures. He found a parallel to Christ's self-sacrifice in Prajapati, the Vedic creator-god. He saw, too, a vital difference. Whereas the Vedic Prajapati is a mythical symbol, which has been applied to several figures, Jesus of Nazareth is a historic person. Jesus is the true Prajapati he said, the true Savior of the world.

1John 1:1-3 "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of Life - and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us - what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ."

God knows the hearts of all men.

God's love is more than we can imagine.

God can turn any fool into a wise man.

For it would take a wise man to believe in God.

The fool say's in his heart there is no God’s .proverb.

If he say's there is no God then how can he make God a fool.

Hello Kathy - February 10, 1999
One small clarification:

God knows the hearts of men because He knows the destructive course man has taken in the form of "sin."

One might ask well then, what IS sin?The answer is: Sin is any action taken outside the will God. The creator spoken of within the Holy Bible.

In as much as God knew of the destruction Cain and Able faced, it was Gods will to allow free choices.

This then becomes an active ingredient to submitting to Him freely.

Wisdom cannot be obtained through blind obedience, when doubt overwhelms reasoning.

That's utterly ridiculous because you are trying to explain the supernatural in natural terms.

Which makes you look like the fool.

No one can make a fool of God, only we can make fools of ourselves.

Don't get me wrong, wisdom is important but it is not the be all or end all.

Nor does any amount of wisdom change one's eternal destination.

You can be as wise at Albert Einstein, but if you believe that there is no God or you believe in a false god, then all of your wisdom amounts for only recognition among the human living world.

It does not buy you anything in the afterlife/eternity where the realm is spiritual/supernatural.

Basically, there can be only one truth.

For those who believe the wrong thing (take the cult who committed suicide to be with the UFO in the Hale Bop comet for instance)

you do not get a second chance at life or a second chance to accept Jesus as the only True Savior.

Choose wisely whom you will serve today because you may not get a second chance....

..and your choice will determine your eternal destination.

oses was given laws to govern God's people by.

As for God's punishment, the action that I have known Him to take are in allowing sin to continue,

along with His divine absence in physical manifestation.

This bridge might be found through Jesus Christ, God only begotten Son

Kathy responds, you write as if you have some dislike for sin

Someone who accepts the myths of cult like worship would hardly be someone to have any kind of respect for the attributes in sin.

What I mean is do you find yourself without sin?

It is my humble opinion that the Bible takes only one serious view into consideration.

That would be to give the reader whose quest is to find the truth, to find it within ITS writings.

The Bible teaches us who God is!

And so sin, though I do not agree with your assumption of it being taken lightly, is not the objective of its writings!

Standards created by reasoning through "man's" logic can only be flawed.

The Bible teaches that God has created us all equals in His eyes!

A created being meant to exist in harmony, to enjoy with "passion" life in its fullest measure. . Not only to enjoy but also, to share that joy.

The Bible teaches that heaven is where Christ is building a home for us to be with God.

The answer is very simple; hell is where God is not.

Our kind of justice is not run with the authority of God at its main roots.

Therefore, though the roots remain in the earth and feed from it's life source, it has yet to taste the spring of living water that God will one day provide us.

However, Jesus is clearly saying this method is not a license for vengeance.

There is no greater example of this ethical truth than the life and death of Jesus Himself.

Abraham is offered throughout the New Testament as the prototype of those who are justified by faith....are blessed with faithful Abraham.

There can never be a physical manifestation of Him, since it will also be a breech to His Omnipresent attribute.

The Bible teaches that only those who refuse God's grace will not be chosen. Those who have not received His word may at the last days receive it at that time and then will need to make a choice.

Scripture records..

that Abraham followed the heathen custom of begetting a child..

to be his heir by a slave girl,

because his wife was barren

“I pray thee go in unto my maid,” Sarah asked her husband. “It may be that I may obtain children by her” (Gen. 16:2

The slave girl, Hagar, soon bore a son for Abraham

Re-post #93
In fact I find being a Christian the most satisfying experience in all that I have come to know.

It is as God had always intended, to share the joy of life!

Stupidity is not the question that will be asked.

We must not be taking a leap in the dark, faith is not a leap in the dark. It must rest upon the Word of God.

Faith rests upon something.

The Holy Spirit who has come into the world to tell about Another.

The thing that is primary as far as God is concerned is to get the gospel out to the peoples of the world.

The Spirit of God is here to put this first.

Re-post #94
Yes scripture does state that God spoke to him, and that an angel of the Lord visited him.

In all cases throughout the bible we are given an understanding that there is a veil between God and man.

In modern times the name Christian has been somewhat emptied of its true meaning as a follower of Christ.

while others have sought to make its proper use the name of a particular denomination.

However, its original meaning is a noble one, of which any follower of Christ can rightly be proud.

Hello Ilaudermilk - February 17, 1999
You may not know better, but the one who controls your mind does.

"For we (CHRISTians) wrestle NOT against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Hello @Ankara - February 17, 1999
have you ever heard that the bible quotes the name "jehovah",

i feel this scares me most and that if the teachings i am reading is true, that we go to church on sunday and sing glory to our great lord jehovah... who are we praying to ? Scary isnt it?!