Responses:
Dialogue 1 Back to contents Hello the_exegete - May 27, 1999
well, i see now it is entirely impossible to get singh to consider the idea of what a "test" is, Vj ~ The tests are already laid out, I wonder why you are refraining from challenging it? Is the writing too small that you need a microscope to conduct the test?
let alone what truth is.
Vj ~ You don't know what truth is, so how are you going to ever recognize it?
i would consign him to the dung heap of theological history, but i doubt he would even be accepted in that company.
Vj ~ History alone is not evidence of the absolute, since your history is only a few thousand years old. Even then, it doesn't tell you the age of creation or whether there were other creations.
and, you know, i was kidding about the goat-boy thing...
Vj ~ In my discussions of truth there is no kidding around; when I say you are a fool, you are one.
but the fact that singh actually lives in a house with a donkey gave me my first laugh of the day.
Vj ~ Just imagine, it took a jackass to get fool to laugh.
and since i'm already typing, and can't resist taking another potshot, you should be aware that we are documented as being scum all the way back to the beginning of time:
Vj ~ This is a breach to natural laws - progression is downwards not upwards. Man must first experience righteousness and then become scums.
adam, when called to defend the first great moral catastrophe, in all his manly pride and human splendor used the defense that "she did it."
Vj ~ And "who did it" to Sarah and Mary? Typical of your God to blame women for his own mistakes!
hello ellenmarshall - May 28, 1999
Vijai, Why don't you know that Mary isn't a part of our faith? How can you speak with any sort of authority to us when you have no knowledge of what we believe?
Vj ~ This is a Jewish discussion board and Mary was a Jew and the God that impregnate her was the same fellow that did it to Sarah. The lesson is that she might have had good reasons, like her son, to abandon Judaism. In reality she was made a whore and her son a bastard.
No, Vijai, your negative character traits are an impediment to you.
Vj ~ How could it be when you are the one (Jews) that is being impeded (offended) by my 'negative character'?
I have read your information, it holds nothing new for me.
Vj ~ Of course it holds nothing new for you, because you are a container fill with waste. Empty the waste and then you will have room for something new.
You, on the other hand, only serve to belittle people and reflect badly on your faith.
Vj ~ If people are belittled, then there is no one else to blame but the religion they follow which didn't offer any protection for them. As for my faith, it is truth and truth cannot be tarnished.
If you are the example of the product of your faith, then years of study could only instruct someone to act like a bullying child.
Vj ~ What else can I expect of those who are too ignorant to notice the failure of Judaism?
Seems like your faith is a waste of time for you since it hasn't taught you how to get along with others in the world and cannot lead to a productive society.
Vj ~ This true faith of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition, slavery or holocaust. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno. This I call productive to society.
Dialogue 2 Back to contents Hello ellenmarshall - May 28, 1999
This true faith of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition, slavery or holocaust. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno. This I call productive to society.
You could make the very same statement about Judaism. Vj ~ It wouldn't fit Judaism since science exposes irrational doctrines where creation is proven to be older than what is preached by these doctrines. Secondly, even though Aryans have never persecuted they were neither subjected to persecution of any sort, obviously the fruits of righteousness.
I was only speaking of you personally, not the Vedic faith.
Vj ~ I represent the Vedic faith, and what you see is exactly what you get - the truth.
If people learned to act like you do, they would not be able to get along in society.
Vj ~ If they all act like me we would have a society rich with wisdom and with no persecution of any kind and free of all worries in how to get along.
So either your faith has failed you, or you have failed your faith.
Vj ~ On the contrary, take a long look back at Jewish history, the persecution of Jews for the past 5,000 years, there is no greater example when it comes to a faith that has failed its people.
Hello the exegete - May 30, 1999
persecution? ahem. dravidics. moslems.
Vj ~ and Jews! But neither have Aryans persecuted or have been persecuted.
so i guess no one ever told him how the aryans kicked the shit out of the dravidics
Vj ~ At least they got to kick the shit out of some one and still remain the source of ethics, morals and all sciences.
(still have them cleaning toilets to this day, in fact) and in turn got the shit kicked out of them by the moslems and the british.
Vj ~ The toilet cleaners are reincarnated souls of Christians (British) and Moslems who are all still kicking but only this time it is shit. that's what we need on the internet, more retards. good
Vj ~ And what's more the Christians and Moslems are still engaged in someway or the other in kicking the Jews. For your own safety I would advise that you keep your mouth shut before it finds the right size of booth. At least, I, as an Aryan, am trying to kick some sense into everyone.
Dialogue 3 Back to contents
Hello the_exegete - May 31, 1999
and there we have the aryan/vedic method. Vj ~ And a fine one indeed to disseminate truth, whereby man can be free from the bondage of ignorance.
deny history;
Vj ~ Any revelation based on historical references is false and can only lead man to pain and misery.
admit it when confronted with the facts, but spin it differently;
Vj ~ Your facts would make my donkey sleep forever. If your facts were truth no Jew would have ever been subjected to persecution
then rely on threats of physical violence.
Vj ~ Probably had a bad dream although an idiot might be deserving of it as a wakeup call. Then again Jews were subjected by it for centuries and yet it served as mean of strengthening false belief.
that's what i really call a source of ethics.
Vj ~ It should be simple for you to grasp then, since you idolized those who committed adultery, incest and murder as perfect examples of good ethics and morals.
hope your donkey likes you, singh!
Vj ~ A donkey has a good lesson to teach all those who follow false religions. It would have been better to be donkeys since they don't cause wars or persecuted by it.Hello the exegete - June 01, 1999
could the AA religion pass donkey-boy's 5 "tests?"
Vj ~ How could it when their liver and brains are all washed up? AA (alcoholics anonymous) doesn't call itself a religion, but it passes the "duck test:"
Vj ~ I thought all those of false religions who shoot and eat ducks might be able to pass the "duck test". it's organized around a vaguely defined "supreme being," there are regular meetings of adherents, rituals, and prayers.
Vj ~ It would serve them better to continue drinking, rather than to lengthen their life span to commit more sins by praying to a false God.
it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, so we can call it a duck.
Vj ~ And they perhaps might be ducks or worst in their next birth also.
the AA religion has the unique attribute that its central premise (giving alcoholics their lives back) is manifestly accomplished by relying on their supreme being, while at the same time, such a task is almost impossible to accomplish by modern medicine or the social sciences.
Vj ~ I see them both, religion and science, as a failure, not only to them but also you and the rest of mankind without true religion. The fact remains, that alcohol is the lesser of the three evils.
There must be some Jewish scholars around to defend Judaism or is Judaism such a horrible failure that no one even dares to try. Ignoring such a rational discourse will not make it right for Jews and their plight of pain and misery will not just disappear. Let us all be fearless in our search for truth. Where have all my Jewish intellectual friends gone? When good, sensible and rational discussions are avoided or being abandoned, it only shows the true nature of false dogmas. Had there been any truth in such religions, all concern would have been more than delighted to participate.
It is the desire of all souls to find happiness, but it puzzles me, how the souls of Judaism, are so determine to find happiness through a faith where its long history spoke of nothing else but slavery, holocaust, anti-semeticism and many other deep wounds of divisions. It leaves one to really wonder if they would be able in any way possible, to recognize their massiah, if he really does show up. Hello Etminan1 - January 25, 2000
I am not a scholar at all. Vj ~ Well I could have figured that out myself, scholars never visit these boards mainly because of the fear they won't leave as scholars.
And I must surely be wasting my time here, but your attitude is something to take offence with.
Vj ~ If it could free you of abuse it causes, then it would not be a waste of time, would it?.
How do you relate persecution of the Jews with bad faith?
Vj ~ Easy, my logic tells me that if the fruits of religion (righteousness) is perpetual happiness then the opposite, persecution, must be the punishment for ignorance.
I would say the bad faith was of their neighbor, not of their own.
Vj ~ Then Yahwe is unjust for punishing them for their neighbor’s crime.
As for judging the one true religion, it is an absurd standard. Because as humans, we can never be totally objective.
Vj ~ You mean as a Jew, because I am human and I have found true religion where God is a subtle spirit and never can be seen by the naked eyes and cannot participate physically in man’s day to day life.
But for proof, 600,000 male witnesses at Mount Sinai...that is proof. Even if you were not witness to it.
Vj ~ 1 billion Hindus saw their God Ganesha drinking milk too, isn't that more a valid proof than 600,000. Shouldn't you be a Hindu instead if your desire is seeking God by objective means? Or how about being a Christian, since Christ fed thousands with a few loaves of bread?
I certainly can use a computer, but I did not invent it.
Vj ~ In the same way you don't have to invent the one true God, to know Him. It is call reasoning, the honest inquiry into the tenets of all religions to ascertain which is true.
Dialogue 4 Back to contents Hello Etminan1 - June 02, 1999 Hello...so your truth is truer because it is yours alone unto thyself you are true... Vj ~ There can only be one truth and it is for all of mankind and for all ages. Any theology based on your 'truth' that is inconsistent to different ages, is false. For example, the Ten Commandments are indeed good moral principles, but yet denied to those before Moses. It will take an unjust God to deprived some in the past while catering for others in future. Perhaps if he had sent it in the beginning man would not have become that wicked for him to destroy (by flood) the world.
so there is no more room for separate and different truths..or even opinions.
Vj ~ What good are these opinions if it is given in the absence of good reasoning? There is benefit for different opinions when it is guided by the correct knowledge. Without these opinions by impartial discussions and the correct knowledge one will not be able to ascertain truth from untruth.
My, what a great scholar you are.
Vj ~ It would mean that you are greater scholar than I am, to have given me such recognition. That would also make you a liar since you earlier claimed that you are not a scholar.
And a miracle or paranormal or even unvalidated event is not truth.
Vj ~ Miracles are a breach to the immutable laws of nature and as such do not occur. It is the ignorant who seek comfort in belief by such events, actually more the fault of those who easily mislead them to believe so. It is also very strange that whatever miracles took place thousands of years ago have not occurred again since. Even stranger, that it all happened when the earth was believed to be flat.
Truth is the fact of the stone tablets brought off Mount Sinai...there was physical proof.
Vj ~ Again, if is indeed proof, then why don't you accept Jesus as your messiah his proofs by miracles are more recent? God cannot be localized because He is Omnipresent.
Not mind matters or evolved spiritual insights or complex philosophies. Just the truth of the Covenant and the proof.
Vj ~ Where is the sense in all this, that you accept your own and reject others when they also have similar proofs. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all born of Abraham and these divisions have brought nothing but pain and misery in the form of wars, holocaust, persecution (inquisition) slavery, etc. which, still continues to this day and yet billions persist to follow. Isn't this a clear case of stupidity? Aren't all these adversities good enough a reason to abandon these faiths? Even if the one true religion is not immediately at hand, it would make better sense to remain an atheist. This way the intellect will be free to make further and constant inquires, by far a better chance, I must say, to find truth.
Hello Etiman 1 - June 03, 1999
Hello...if you are an atheist, what do you really care about religion for?
Vj ~ Is that what the link in my previous post indicated? You will never be able to defend Judaism if you have no knowledge of the faith that contradicts it. No religion tells a person to be bad, so, a person who has religion is not hurting you with their truths.
Vj ~ I guess you didn't do any research at all, even in your own religion. It may not have taught them to be bad, but it did teach them that in spite of bad actions, they can still go (forgiveness) to heaven, which is the same thing. Abraham committed adultery, Lot impregnate his daughters, Moses murder, David and Solomon had numerous concubines. In spite of these immoral actions they attained heaven, what is to deter man from being wicked if these actions are rewarded (forgiven)?
Our very senses, not being true or accurate or even the same as another, tells me a universal truth that you are seeking is a very limited concept, for you and you only.
Vj ~ It is limited because of ignorance and if you don't get out of it, you will never find it. God is Just, merciful and compassionate and therefore can never deprive any soul the "universal truth". I have made the effort by investigating the tenets of all religions to ascertain which one is true, and you must do the same if interested in seeking the one true God.
As for discussing Judaism and why not believe in Jesus, that is only a question that you can answer by studying the Jewish requirements for the Messiah.
Vj ~ I am quite sure all religions have their own requirements of what a Messiah (mediator) should be. It would make no difference anyway, because history has spoken, mediators between man and God have only brought divisions among mankind, and another one, whom the Jews are awaiting, can do nothing more than the same. None of these Messiahs have been consistent with each other, Moses said and eye for and eye; Jesus said to turn the other cheek; and Mohammad said, do not make friends with Jews and Christians. Judaism holds other religions to be Satanic; Islam holds all non-Muslims as infidels; and in Christianity no one gains salvation but through Christ, even though they are all born of Abraham.
Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah, nor has anyone come yet who fulfills those requirements.
Vj ~ Well I don't know what requirements Jews are looking for, but judging from your past prophets, it seems that if he does not commit adultery (Abraham, David and Solomon), incest (Lot, Cain) or murder (God, Moses) he can't qualified to be a Messiah.
So, I think a person that tends to look for the true religion, should at least have knowledge of those religions he is so truthfully wanting to deny.
Vj ~ Actually denial can only be genuine when true religion is found after thorough investigation of all. You cannot even begin to speak of true religion until you can develop the courage to venture out of the fold of Judaism to investigate the others. Many religions forbid such openness as blashphemy.
The truth is out there, you are just going about it in the wrong way, you do not even trealize the truth of Judaism.
Vj ~ I am not the one being persecuted, enslaved, or offended by desecration of 'holy' objects or anti-semetic remarks, so I must be doing something right. The truth is out there alright, but how can you find it if you are confined to a closed-minded religion.
Study it, then tell me if Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. Good luck to you.
Vj ~ As I said before, he is not, since the records show that he did not commit adultery, incest and murder as the others did, even worst he probably never had sex. So it seems your Messiah must be one with a hard working penis.
Dialogue 5 Back to contents
Hello Etminan1 - June 03, 1999
Hello India! What a place, no? The hot stuff really makes you this way? Vj ~ It is India that rescued Jews from persecution for centuries past, mostly from Persia.
First of all, Judaism has no hold on the next world.
Vj ~ Freedom from slavery, persecution and anti-semeticism shows that it has no hold on the present world either.
We believe any righteous person who follows the seven laws of Noah is righteous before HaShem. That is our truth.
Vj ~ Drinking and dancing nude is not the trait of a righteous man. Slavery, persecution (holocaust) and anti-semeticism are not the fruits of righteousness which means the seven laws of Noah are unrighteous ones since it only brought pain and miseries for all Jews since its inception.
Secondly, we hold an even greater responsibility for ourselves as Jews, we have 613 laws to follow.
Vj ~ What good is 613 when even one did not relieve Jews of their pain and misery? The "greater responsibility" should be to investigate other faiths, especially mine, to ascertain Judaism to be your true faith.
But as for the Messiah being anatomically correct, I think that is true as he will be a flesh and blood man, just like yourself.
Vj ~ Mediators between man and god have only created divisions and hatred resulting in wars, murder, rape and other systems of persecution and I see nothing correct by their teachings due to these past atrocities.
As for the anti-semitic comments, been there, heard that. As for my truth, well, I do not need to search...so you are the lost one there.
Vj ~ When your race is subjugated and persecuted, it is all the reason a sensible person needs to begin his search. This true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno. The Rishis were pious men, and their teachings based on their philosophical treatises were in harmony with each other and their conduct were free of adultery, incest and murder.
Good luck and I am finished with these posts, you wish for an argument and I have none.
Vj ~ It is fools who prefer to remain so, because of bigotry, when confronted with such rational discussions. Then again, it is also divine justice when you are compelled to remain so. Hello PaulaGem - June 05, 1999
There is NO true religion.
Vj ~ This is best answered by one who has examined the tenets of all religions to ascertain which one is true.
This is an oxymoron. Religion is a cultural reflection of the Divinity.
Vj ~ If it were so, how do you explain the dark side of religion? "Put the infidels (non-believers) to the sword." -The Q'uran. Can you tell me how this religion reflects Divinity by slaughtering non-muslims? When you would have found a religion that is not guilty of persecution, inquisition, etc., you have found the true “reflection of the Divinity.”
As such it will always contain both Truth and corruption.
Vj ~ Then such a God of those religions, is not All-wise, All-knowing or All-perfect.
The only way to know the Truth is to follow the path that Spirit gives you and trust that each day will bring a greater understanding of the One.
Vj ~ If the Spirit was good enough for truth, then what is the necessity for revelation?
For religion, look for the reflection of the Divine Light in those around you, accept those into your life that reflect the One you know.
Vj ~ The reflection of pain and suffering is punishment for sinful actions, and happiness is for virtuous actions. This must be the lesson for all to recognize God's divine justice by seeking the correct knowledge. True religion must be harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with the immutable laws of nature and only the Vedic religion has found such an envious place.
Dialogue 6 Back to contents Hello Paulagem - June 06, 1999 It is not possible to examine the tenets of all religions, Vj ~ Why? Are they not all available for examination or are you too closed-minded? If it is not possible because you didn’t know how, what is your excuse now that I have shown you the way?
for each us has our own perception, our own cultural context of Spirit so religions are as grains of sand.
Vj ~ If to each our own, why are Christians so busy converting the rest of the world? "Jesus says, "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME" John 14:6" - so what good is "our own perception, our own cultural context of Spirit" by our own religion when your Christ is the ony way to salvation? I have explained the dark side of religion in the next sentence you quote. It is not Divinity, it will always be corrupted by the understanding of this world.
Vj ~ Then if your "understanding of this world" is not a reflection of truth or divinity (easily corrupted), then would it not make sense that you would have to make
further inquires? God is All, it is our understanding that is flawed and imperfect, your statement does not follow logically.
Vj ~ Then your understanding must be perfect how else would you know whose is flawed? Could it not be our understanding is "flawed" because we lack the correct knowledge?
The only way to know the Truth is to follow the path that Spirit gives you
Vj ~ How could we, of different religion, follow our "the path that Spirit gives you" when Christ is the only way to salvation?
What you are calling "revelation" is merely LIFE in the Spirit.
Vj ~ Then if all revelations of different religions are "life in the spirit" why is Christ is the only way to salvation?
Pain and suffering can make us strong and wise,
Vj ~ Then how come the majority of the world's population who are in pain and misery are not strong and wise? Again who needs Divine instructions, "life in the Spirit", etc. (or happiness) if strength and wisdom lies in pain and suffering.
but the source of Divinity is found in the Love around us and within us.
Vj ~ Then who needs God or His revelation or Christ if "the source of Divinity is found in the Love around us and within us"?
NO religion is beyond corruption and misunderstanding of the One...
Vj ~ Then you would have to know or examine all religions to come such a conclusion. But since you insist that it is impossible to examine all religions, then I can only assume that you are speaking out of stupidity. Only by daily living in Spirit can we go beyond that corruption. It is not to be found in any book or teaching, only in the living and loving.
In Christ
Vj ~ Really! How did you find Christ if you had no knowledge of a book (the Bible)? Hello theshmoozer - June 07, 1999 Why is it, that for some, the only way they justify their beliefs is when they go and attack another?
Vj ~ It is the same question I ask of Judaism, Christianity and Islam but never got an answer. They all have one source -Abraham and yet Judaism attacks all other religions as satanic; Christianity attacks non-Christians by advocating Christ as the only way to salvation while Martin Luther advocated the "cutting off the tongues of the Jews", etc.; and Islam attacks all those who are not Muslims, as infidels who should be put to the sword. Are these really religions for sane people? How secure or insecure are those who believe in it?
Vj ~ It is the very essence of insecurity that these religions guided by their irrational Torah, Bible and Q'uran that they preach intolerance and forbid critical thinking. It is for this reason that intelligent people need to abandon them for the betterment of universal harmony. Perhaps that should be a test of a true faith.
Vj ~ No, this is the real test of true religion - The Vedic religion was not and is not like other present day religions, nor is it exclusive and confined to the inhabitants of India. It is universal and does not derive its authority from any single person, no matter how holy or wise. It humbly maintains that truth was complementary and not exclusive and contradictory and as such it commands allegiance to all ages. This true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.
Dialogue 7 Back to contents
Hello MarlysRae - June 08, 1999
"Do you have proof that Martin Luther said that he advocated cutting off the tongues of the Jews. Would you mind posting his statements in context and if you can't do that will you please tell where you got that information from? Thanks." I have to read that myself before I will believe it. Vj In his books, "Table Talk" (1543) and "Against Jews and Their lies" He ruthlessly attacked Judaism and Jews with statements like these "they have stolen and robbed us of it by usury" and "I'd tear their tongues out of their throats.." etc.
Now would you abandon Christianity, if not, then belief is only false hope? ~ Our Bible teaches that! Do you have a Bible or I should say does your religion. have a written word?
Vj ~ What good is the "written word" when you lack reasoning? Islam and Judaism also have written words, why then salvation is only possible through Christ?
I believe anyone who pushes a religion doesn't have the truth.
Vj ~ I agree, this is all the reason you need to abandon Christianity who is pushing to convert the rest of the world, even to the extent of faking miracles.
So you think you are lucky enough to have found the right one, huh?
Vj ~ You won't see it as luck, if you can drag yourself out the fold of the irrational, vulgar and obscene Bible, to do some impartial investigation.
The New Testament teaches the same thing any one killing with the sword must perish with the sword.
Vj ~ Then your God of the Old Testament should perish the same way, since he too is guilty of killing innocent men, women and children (flood, first born of Egypt, Sodom and Gamorrah, etc)
However when God sent His people out with the sword that was fine because that was the sword of the lord.
Vj ~ The Muslim God also sent His people out with their "sword of the lord" to kill Christians and Jews (infidels). So whose God is right and why?
Also when you worship God you can feel His presence enter your being.
Vj ~ So why do you (Christians) deny the same experiences of other faiths true their scripture?
Yes, having the living God dwelling in your being through His Holy Spirit will make you very secure in all things if you put your trust in Him and not in yourself!
Vj ~ Amazing! then you have truly found higher spiritual elevation even which Martin Luther couldn't find and yet he founded the Lutheran church.
Marlys answers..The Bible says we have to hate sin but love the sinner.
Vj ~ Obviously it weren’t good enough to prevent all the tyranny and barbarism of Christianity's past. Even your God killed instead of loving sinners.
To what ? To who? You know there are a lot of false Spirits out there. Lying , deceiving spirits, the Bible warns us of them
Vj ~ To create them in the first place and then send a warning is a highly ridiculous act for an Omnipotent and Omniscient God.
"This true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno".
And neither did Christianity, If you want me to tell you of more about the Bible talking about science, just say so and next time I will. I will also show you the verses.
Vj ~ It is Christianity that persecuted them for propagating the plurality of the worlds and the earth for being a sphere (round). You are a dunce as those who wrote the Bible, there is no science in the Bible. As a matter of fact, your God has no source for the material cause of the universe.
Hi, again, BTW Christianity is not a religion it is a way of life! Churches are religions
Vj ~ A way of life must exist for all from the very beginning of creation otherwise it is an injustice. Besides, Cain's wife was his sister, Lot impregnated his daughters, Abraham seduced his housemaid, Solomon and David had numerous concubines, what kind of "way of life" were those?
The Bible says James 1:27: Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Vj ~ Again your bible is trash! Your religion was not pure in the beginning since they were no widows and fatherless to visit. Hello theshmoozer - June 09, 1999 Re 103: Like I said.....
Vj ~ Seems Luther has got your tongue also.
Re 108. There you go again.
Vj ~ Very true, again and again fools will always be offended by truth. In true religion there is no mediator between man and God, and as such if Aryas should become a hated race it would be because of truth and not some accusation of robbing another race of a prophet. To die for truth brings great reward, but to die for a belief (irrational dogma) leads to bitter misery.
Dialogue 8 Back to contents Hello theshmoozer - June 10, 1996
VJ. In 110 you said "In any true religion there is no mediator between man and God". Vj ~ Why not check it (my home page) out for yourself rather than taking my word for it?
Who is the mediator between man and G-d according to the jewish religion?
Vj ~ You mean "who are the mediators" - all names (Adam, Eve, Abraham, Lot, Moses, David, Solomon, etc.) mentioned in the Torrah are mediators, because your God personally intervened in their affairs. "Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God." Thomas Paine. And only the true revelation of the Veda, which is free of historical references, fits this statement.
Your 113 shows just how little you understand about Judaism.
Vj ~ What more is there to understand, when revelation must be eternal to serve all creations (past, present and future), and this is why it cannot contain any historical references.
I suspect your knowledge of the other world religion you trash is on the same level.
Vj ~ Definitely, all are based on untruths and are a travesty to the attributes of an Omniscient God. God talking to, sleeping, walking and wrestling with men of disgustingly low moral conduct, intervening in their personal affair, having sex, condoning murder, adultery and incest. Is this what you call religion (righteousness)?
With this being the case, I see no reason to further this discussion.
Vj ~ If you are indulged in an adulterous life, like those of your prophets (Abraham, David, Solomon, etc.) and is looking forward to be forgiven like them, it would makes sense to leave rather than coming to know the truth and be disappointed of salvation.
Religious beliefs based on Thomas Paine. Great. What's next?
Vj ~ Do you have a better meaning for revelation? It is better to be an atheist (one who reasons), than a hypocrite (one who only believes). Hello PaulaGem - June 10, 1999 God has intervened in my affairs, by your logic Vj, I am a "mediator"....
Vj ~ Of course, I wouldn't expect an idiot to understand my logic, so please tell me which part of the Bible (the word of God), God talked, walked or had sex with Paulagem? All ye on this board who are weary and virus ridden, pick up your mouse and follow me.
Vj ~ They don't have to, it is automatic to become rats in the next birth for the rejection of true religion I have created a new religion as I am a mediator of GOD!!
Vj ~ At the very least, you have an idea of how your religion was born - "follow me and I will make you fishers of men" - sounds familiar! As long as there are fishes Christianity will live on, I only wonder of their (fishes) insignificance before Christ.
Dialogue 9 Back to contents Hello CheezeUs - June 11, 1999 singhvj, may I request that since this is a Judaism board and you are trying to get a point across... Vj ~ It is not the point that is in question here anymore, but those who don't seem to get the point.
Provide at least one link to the Vedic writings that is uncluttered by commentaries; I found your site to be a bit overwhelming. I would like to read these writings from a totally objective point of view. I will read the commentaries after reading the text.
Vj ~ The Vedic writings are for those who have achieved a realized intellect. There are stages of intellectual upliftment, presently as a Jew your intellect is a static one. The immediate rejection of Judaism to seek true religion results into a functional intellect. Reasoning with the correct knowledge leads to a discriminating intellect, knowing right from wrong (true or false). Only from this stage one can develop the realized intellect to understand the Vedic texts.
Perhaps you can provide me with the links within your site that point directly to the Vedic writings.
Vj ~ In other words, the Vedic texts can never be of benefit to one with static intellect. Our creation has fallen from its purest state (an ancient Vedic civilization) to its darkest age of ignorance and it is the reason a reformer was needed to show us the path again. It is necessary to know him and what his mission is, before any Vedic texts.
Please review all of your messages within this board that refer to The Torah and list the verses which you believe objectively prove your points.
Vj ~ No need to list any verse when all of them prove my point, man had existed long (almost 2 billion years) and many creations before the Torah and God being Just, Merciful and Compassionate would have instructed them also.
Hello KnowledgableOne - June 11, 1999
Doesn't being reincarnated break the immutable laws of nature?
Vj ~ It would, like your religion, if the idiot asking has no knowledge of reincarnation and the immutable laws of nature.
After all, Singh has always argued that once you're DEAD, YOU'RE DEAD!!!!!!!
Vj ~ It is the same for a fool who is brain-dead - there is absolutely no cure.
That which is dead cannot be resurrected.
Vj ~ You can surprise me! And better yet, tell that to the Jews, Christians and Muslims who believe in resurrection to enjoy heaven.
Dialogue 10 Back to contents Hello CheezeUs - June 12, 1999 Message 142 http://www.IndiaDivine.com Vj ~ Hey cheese-head why not refute my site instead which is what I have ascertained the true religion of the Vedas to be? Unless it is your desire to remain as ignorant as you are, then there isn't much I can do about it. When your people are slaughtered by Moslems, it's the fault of...the Moslems!!!
Vj ~ Very true, it is the same when Moslems (Palestine) are slaughtered by the Jews it is the fault of Jews who invaded their country.
Can you explain why India was a poverty ridden, diseased stricken, technologically backward country until the United States started giving out business visas in the early 1980's to allow Indians to come to the U.S. to design mediocre databases and write poorly written code?
Vj ~ So was the rest of the world until -"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
You don't really expect India to do everything, so the rest of the world can sit lackadaisically on their backside.
The majority of the statements you make in regards to the Torah show that you... Have never read The Torah Have never applied any historical background knowledge to any of your statements.
Vj ~ I don't need to, I already know what is consisted of true religion. You are at the disadvantage by only knowing the Torah. I've read some of the Vedas on your sight... Parents should encourage their children to be educated. Mothers should speak in a pleasant, rhythmic meter to their children so that their children will develop pleasant voices.
Jews have Pirkei Avos (Ethics Of The Fathers); same thing.
Vj ~ Ethics in application to a false god negates all virtuous attempts to seek true righteousness. In your case it would not be easy for the mother to explain why the father committed adultery.
Several dozen verses attributing omnipotence to Gods various forms as revealed to humans understanding.
Vj ~ Your god cannot be called omnipotent when he couldn't avoid the destruction of the world (flood of Noah's age).
I am, of course, expecting a sarcastic, brainwashed flavor, reply from you, but I had 5 minutes to spare to write this.
Vj ~ I'm afraid that is all the time one needs to become a fool, in comparison to wisdom which requires almost a lifetime to acquire.
Also, please explain why your God allows your asses to be kicked by the entire world on a continuous basis throughout world history.
Vj ~ I don't don't know what other boards you have been reading but on my boards it is I who have been kicking "asses" and before me, the
Rishis of yore.
Getting back to the original topic, your page is too cluttered by your commentary.
Vj ~ Either that or your brain is too "cluttered" with the lustful of theTorah!
I will read the Vedas
Vj ~ Interesting, but if you are still an idiot at the end of it, know that it was interpreted by fools, like yourself.
Dialogue 11 Back to contents Hello CheezeUs - June 13, 1999 I did refute your site; it's too cluttered with your ego bloated commentary. The other site is much easier to navigate. Vj ~ It simple shows that truth is never that easily accessible to an idiot. Columbus did not discover the West by simple navigation through calm seas. Einstein, one of the all-time great self-hating Jews.
Vj ~ Sure! They are all self-hating, even Christ for abandoning Judaism. Like Einstein, why don't you grow up?
I believe he erroneously credited India with inventing mathematics. I wonder how Enoch built a city in the book of Genesis with absolutely no knowledge of mathematics.
Vj ~ He could have, the Vedic religion is the oldest religion in the world. It simply means that mathematics was around long before "Genesis" was born.
The flood!!! You haven't read your Torah. God didn't allow the flood to occur; God caused it to occur. As to why, try reading the story.
Vj ~ Either way he is not an omniscient or omnipotent god since man is fallible and as such they can screw up now and then, but God is infallible and should never screw up at any time.
Brainwashed people like you make me so happy to be Jewish
Vj ~ Not if you were among the six million that had to face the Nazi gas-chambers.
I was always wondering why most of the Indians I have worked with in the last 10 years think their religion is bullshit and have adopted Christianity.
Vj ~ Perhaps the Jews, especially Jesus, that have adopted Christianity saw the same "bullshit" in Judaism.
Christianity may be based on blind faith in Jesus, but at least Christians are allowed, if not encouraged, to try and understand their scriptures.
Vj ~ The Vedic religion is not blind because it allows (no blasphemy) its aspirants to examined and understand all scriptures so that they can ascertain which is true. It is the only religion that promotes critical thinking and complete freedom of speech because it is not god or religion who needs to be protected, but those who follow.
By the way, if the U.S. cancelled those business visas, India would fall back into the shithole it's been in for the last 3,000 years.
Vj ~ The same or even worst of a "shithole" would occur for you and the rest of the world if India took back her mathematics.
Please don't forget that the Church was almost destroyed by the Moslems, and you don't seem to like Moslems too much.
Vj ~ When a man has put his life on the line to free the ignorant of the wrath of false religions, it is love, compassion and mercy being extended to its highest. My dislike is for all that is false and not for those who are innocently being misled.
You are such a loser.
Vj ~ So were 6 million of your people also, and if that is not enough it could happen again because this world can never be short of Hitlers as long as there is so much hate among the three religions of Abraham.
Not one of your messages has contained one reference to back up anything you write.
Vj ~ It is "reference" without reasoning, that is responsible for the birth and growth of Christianity and Islam, why as a Jew you would want more of it? Instead you should be grateful that I am here to dispel the evils of the three for the interest of global unity and liberation of souls.
I, of course, realize that you do not need to back anything up with references because everybody else is too stupid to see the truth.
Vj ~ I am quite sure the Torah and the Bible were never short of references, but haven't you wondered that in spite of it, many other religions were born out of them? It simply means that "everybody else" is indeed too stupid to depend on references alone in the absence of proper reasoning to find truth.
Please list a few of the technological, medical and artistic that has come out of India.
Vj ~ Prevention is better than cure. The science of Yoga (prevention) is superior to Western science which is inferior science because it is always looking for a cure.
Don't mention Gandhi; all he did was refrain from eating and every bleeding heart liberal labeled him a hero
Vj ~ In my book he is far ahead of many of your heroes Abraham, David, Solomon (adultery), Cain, Lot (incest), Moses (murder), etc.
Your turn to insult me.
Vj ~ Look at it this way - it is for your own good.
Dialogue 12 Back to contents Hello Wais-Obiken - June 14, 1999 Not worth the "powder to blow him to hell" in my opinion. Vj ~ The problem is not the "powder" or "hell" it is the "blow" in my opinion.
but I would like to request that you kindly not throw that name around so casually. It truly offends me deeply...
Vj ~ When god needs to be protected, his religion is indeed in very serious trouble, not to mention those who follow.
Hello RavenVI - June 11, 1999
Salutations my sister........
At your request, I will be more judicious when referring to our Fathers name...........
Vj ~ I figured that had it not been for "forgiveness", you could have been in serious trouble.
If I may enquire of my beloved sister though,.........why is our Fathers name an issue with you still to this day?
Vj ~ Perhaps he will always be an issue since Jews were kept in bondage for 4 hundred years and even more recent he was helpless in saving 6 million from the gas chambers of the Nazis.
Has not our Father a zeal for His name and a desire that we use it?
Vj ~ Not if "His name" is a constant reminder of a very painful error of the past. Once and twice a coward and always a coward, what hope is there that he can prevent further pain and miseries.
Is it not written: "So will I make my Holy Name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my Holy Name any more; the heathen shall know that I am YHWH, the Holy One in Israel." (Ezekiel 39:7)
Vj ~ Better to worship the Omniscient and Omnipotent God of the Vedas since no mortal being or creature can ever pollute His name.
Thus, is it not important to proclaim the name of our Father to a perishing world.....if only to give them a tidbit of hope for salvation?
Vj ~ If "YAHWEH our Father......and the Lord Yahshuah Messiah....." cannot prevent past and present miseries what hope is there for salvation through them? Hello RavenVI - June 12, 1999
Greetings my brother.......
It is written in our Scriptures that "......if a man answers a question before he hears it.....that man is a fool."
Vj ~ Even if he gives a stupid answer after he hears the question, he is still a fool.
Therefore, I will not give a rebuttal to your posting to me until I have studiously reviewed your website in regards to this Vedic belief system.
Vj ~ This indeed is good common sense. May the omniscient One guide your intellect.
Pray to your god for me, dear brother,
Vj ~ I cannot pray for you or anyone else, since prayer requires your own individual effort to achieve whatever you pray for.
as I will pray to mine for His guidance.....
Vj ~ If he (Yahwe) is helpless as I have already pointed out, there isn't much he can do to help you.
before I undertake this journey into an understanding of your perception of the Divine.
Vj ~ I suggest you do it with an open mind, only then it will bear fruits.
Dialogue 13 Back to contents Hello Wais-Obiken - June 14, 1999 Singh--I guess if I talked about your mother you wouldn't be inclined to defend her honor even though she is quite capable of defending herself. Vj ~ Then in the same way God being All-powerful, in comparison to my fallible mortal mother, is more than capable of defending Himself. So why must it offend anyone, if a cheap shot is taken at Him?
How sad for her to have a son who cares so little.
Vj ~ How sad it is for your god that he needs you to defend him. What glory is there for you or your god if you must spend all your life to protect his image?
For the record,
I was not addressing you anyway.
Vj ~ For the record, truth is deserving of everyone, it is the nature of wise men to be impartial, ignoring none. You are hurting (offended) and I am merely coming to your aid.
You are hopeless, and therefore it is not worth the effort to ask for kindness or respect from you.
Vj ~ Kindness or respect does not lie in defending a name, but to disseminate truth whereby no one can be ever offended. Furthermore, where there is already honor, there is no need to defend. Six million also saw hopelessness in your god just before being gassed.
What a lonely little man you are to have no capacity for love, kindness, compassion or respect for your fellow man.
Vj ~ As a Jew, I wouldn't expect you to know any better, but if you can swallow your ego for a while and examine my site with an open mind, you may perhaps have a different view.
I want people to know my God is Jehovah, not Ares, not Shiva, not Thor, but my God is Jehovah.
Vj ~ Your problem is, you don't know that your god is not really God, why else is he not able to take care of it instead, without you being offended? ViHello Dark-Dragon1 - June 14, 1999
Singh you want to know why Israel just became a nation,
Vj ~ Not really, but I would like to know why it took so long and after so many pain and suffering (slavery, holocaust, etc.). And if you can, why Jesus betrayed his own creed?
I don't beleive Jews or any other of the 12 tribes are going to "Hell". In #162 to posted what happens to Israel(all 12 tribes). Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved..."
Vj ~ Some one is a born liar - "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME" John 14:6" Oh great infallible one...Ahem!
Vj ~ And I thought you were stupid - sorry!
I believe you posted this to the wrong person.
Vj ~ Truth is for all and if there is any 'wrong", perhaps it is your weakness to grasp the wisdom of it.
It belongs to Dark Dragon not me.
Vj ~ One would think if you had any common sense you could have at least see the wisdom in it, as I am quite sure you have read numerous posts that weren't addressed to you.
As for your words to me... You're talkin' to my hand!
Vj ~ It is the hands that usually do the damage when one is offended ("It truly offends me deeply..."). Besides it might worth my while since your brain is dead.
Go worship your self...I've seen your site.
Vj ~ Well it is obvious if your intellect is non-functional the only sensible thing to do is use your eyes.
And I have nothing to say to you further so slander away chum!!!
Vj ~ If there is a desire in seeking true knowledge then it is sensible to remain silent and look at the slander in the interest of your own good.
Thwppth!!! (There was an extra helping of slobber on that by the way)
Vj ~ Since you aren't that smart, I must let you know that it won't get past your keyboard. Happy cleaning!
Dialogue 14 Back to contents Hello RavenVI - August 29, 2000 I am fascinated by your website. Vj ~ If such is the case, then you must also have at least a little fascination (confidence) for the one who put it together.
Is it unwise to assumate that the Rig Veda is your "Bible"?
Vj ~ The Vedas (Rig, Sama, Yajur and Atharva) are the revealed knowledge (ethics, morals and all sciences) of God, but their knowledge can only be sought correctly after ingraining the proper reasoning habits. Today, in a world of perverted intellects, many gave their own interpretations to the Vedas and unless you acquired a discriminating intellect (knowing truth from false) it will be impossible to understand the actual mantras of the Vedas.
If not, where can one acquire a copy for study?
Vj ~ I have yet to read any of the Vedas, it simply means that the Vedas is not the first step, but the rejection of what you now believe to be religion as my site has, step by step (paths), indicated. Hello Wais-Obiken - August 27, 1999
As a matter of fact, it was that change that drove me away from organized c-tianity and started me on the 13 year path of searching for truth.
Vj ~ As for as I know if Judaism is the truth for you, you haven't found truth. On the same principle Christians, Muslims, Buddhists or Hindus have also found their truth. Truth must meet five tests in my original post. Hello RavenVI - August 27, 1999
Mr. Singh1, Salutations....... Your website is very informative.
Vj ~ I would think that being "informative' and "interesting" would have been enough, at the least, to begin the journey up stream.
It is my request that I acquire from you the source from which this sight gets its information.
Vj ~ It is my request that we continue swimming upstream and eventually we will get to the source.
I value your site as a means to understanding the Veda.........but I wish to get a hold of the Veda itself.....or at least its source manuscripts.
Vj ~ Sometimes it is best to study the streams and tributaries before the source, to have a perfect understanding of the river. There are many (hindus) who have already found the source (Veda), but still don't know anything of the river (its knowledge).
Hello Wais-Obiken - August 28, 1999
We love you VijaiSingh1
Vj ~ Still does not make your religion right. "Love" is as dangerous as hate, in the absence of the correct knowledge. Hello Raven!V - August 28,1999
But before He can show us the truth..........we must abrogate self.
Vj ~ This is very true if you mean the ego, and then seek the correct knowledge as the means of perfect guidance.
I am starting my second tablet worth of notes.......stay tuned for a brief commentary......
Vj ~ I am eagerly awaiting Sir Moses! Wais-Obiken,
Not that I'm unfamiliar with quantum physics or its related theories.....but......
Vj. ~ Even if you were I don't see the point when the discussion is about theology. Had a relationship of quantum physics to the Torah been established, it would have probably made some sense What was that all about?????
Vj ~ The ego of a young scientist. How stupid can one become because of it.
Dialogue 15 Back to contents Hello Wais-Obiken - June 15, 1999
Shh...Patience my friend. All will be revealed in due time. Vj ~ "In due time" will never come if you don't make the effort necessary to know that what has been revealed already. Revelation in its entirety must be from the beginning of creation, so that all mankind may benefit. If there is any after or at the end, God will be unjust, since billions gone would have been deprived of it. "If there is a God, who has created heaven and earth, it will be unjust on His part if He deprived Millions of souls born before Moses of His Divine Knowledge." Prof. Maxmuller - "Science of Religion"
"Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God." Thomas Paine. Hello Joe_Blow_Bogus - June 15,1999
It is the law of nature (God's own laws) That all things created must die or decay and since the souls are created (according to Christianity) they must die also. It simply means that Christ isn't coming back again.
If you are going to use this line of reasoning for Christianity, you must use it for the Vedic faith as well. Vj ~ If you are going to REASON at all you must also know what the Vedic Faith is all about.
Therefore, you cannot be reincarnated.
Vj ~ You maybe right on this one, but you certainly will be reincarnated into jackass. If I should gain emancipation in this birth there will be no reincarnation for me for a very, very long time.
You cannot pick & choose a specific point of view and make interchangeable solutions to the postulation of the same question.
Vj ~ Somehow I got the impression that you came across some strange words and you felt like using them, so you throw them in a sentence and what you know it makes no sense at all, except that it confirms the mentality of a jackass.
If you believe the soul is eternal,
Vj ~ I do not believe the soul is eternal, I know it is - there is a vast difference.
then you must equate the same for Christianity.
Vj ~ How is it possible to do that jackass, when all religions oppose each other (the subject of all my discussions)?
By the way, Catholics believe the soul is eternal and it is merely what happens to the soul upon death - heaven or hell - that is in question.
Vj ~ Not only you don't have any knowledge of the Vedic faith, you are an idiot also when it comes to the Catholic faith or perhaps you should have been the Pope.
The Pope fans Creation/Evolution debate by Michael McAteer.
"The Pope made a distinction between body and soul. He acknowledged that the human body may be the product of gradual evolution but he stressed that God created the human soul."
"The Christian view is that a human being is a substantial unit of body and soul and that the soul, as a spiritual being, is created immediately by God, whether it be the first man or in individuals today." Bishop Attila Mikloshazy, dean of St. Augustine's faculty of theology.
Unfortunately, you cannot make these broad based arguments because of the different sects of Christianity. Vj ~ It is not my "arguments" that are in question here, but your ignorance of the faiths that are being discussed here. You are a total embarrassment not only to yourself but to the whole human race. The source of Christianity is the Bible. It is the irrationalities of it, which is responsible for the many divisions among Christians. If there is any truth in it, no one knows what it is.
I hope this enables you to clean up your argument a little bit.
Vj ~ One who has all excrement in his head, is definitely not in the best condition to advice others to clean up.
Dialogue 16 Back to contents Hello Wais-Obiken - June 16, 1999 All p-branes are created equal. Yet for p greater than one, the quantum theory of p-branes, diverges for higher loops. Vj ~ So where in the Torah it teaches the science of quantum physics?Hello RavenVI - June 16,1999
Mr. Singh1,
Can you explain to me why the god of the Veda has manifested him/her/itself as many different deities?
Vj ~ Mr. RavenIV can you explain to me why you cannot argue the Vedic religion from my point of view of what the Vedic God really is?
I am confused.
Vj ~ No wonder you are confused. It is the reason why I stress that it is necessary to develop a functional intellect before investigation of my faith. Hello Sarah - June 16, 1999
Throughout time the wise have wanted to educate people who can do right things, who can achieve their desires and yet not conflict with those of anybody else.
Vj ~ Wisdom is truth, truth is always in conflict with ignorance. Whenever you have become wise, only then you would be in a position to know and avoid “conflict”.Hello CheezeUs - June 18, 1999 Hi, Sarah. I just came back from vacation.
Vj ~ Seek wisdom and you will always be on vacation (contentment).
I agree with you concerning this message board.
Vj ~ All it required to agree was only one sentence, from someone who just popped in. Whether he/she opposes your faith, as I do, was of no concern to you.
I am going to return to my NT commentary.
Vj ~ And I thought by now you would have noticed that all commentaries are welcomed on any of my boards.
Though I will miss the flowers and white horses of the Vedas Vedic!
Vj ~ I wonder who in their right mind would want to give up such innocent beauties of nature for the sexually depraved maniacs of the Bible, guilty of adultery, murder and incest.
Everyone please remember, God is not a sadist and you're not going to hell!
Vj ~ A good thing you came back from vacation, who else would have reminded them?
Dialogue 17 Back to contents Hello _----Ann - June 20, 1999 well, the first car was not made nor assembled by Ford, it was done in France. Check your facts for truth. Vj ~ It wouldn't matter who "made or assembled" the first car, the subject is, was the first man and woman created or formed? I wonder how such a "thinking person" could have missed this truth.
And a true religion....each unto them self. A mind being a single identity, each mind has its own truth.
Vj ~ It is idiots like you who can make Charles Manson a saint.
So defining your truth is acceptable.
Vj ~ Sure it is acceptable to an idiot who accepts anything as truth.
But, your truth is unto yourself, even in a group of "same believers", the truth is still singular to self.
Vj ~ So what do you have to say of my truth, that daylight is as a result of the moon and some one else as the sun, as "singular" to the self?
I find your post, then, both true and false at the same time.
Vj ~ I find your commentaries so far rather foolish, since you said to everyone their own truth. How come you are allowed to find fault in mine, while I must see others' truth as their own?
The thing is, in all actuality, and a thinking person must agree (mind you, a thinking person, one who is not afraid of truth) that even though your truth is absolutely your truth...it can never fully functionally be another's truth.
Vj ~ So then as a "thinking person" how do you define what is truth?
If you think otherwise, you have not delved into the subject that you espouse.
Vj ~ So did you delve into mine before espousing or are you just shooting blindly like an idiot? And if you deem it necessary to destroy another’s right to their own mind and thoughts, you are a cult.
Vj ~ So what difference would it make when the others "mind and thoughts" are already cults?
The only place of true freedom, where truth can be expressed as an individual and fully functioning entity is in the mind.
Vj ~ So are you saying the mind makes no difference whether it belongs to an idiot or a wise man?
Now, do you espouse mind control or do you allow each person to seek truth for themself?
Vj ~ Well you should know by now, am I in control of your mind?
And if you say your truth is anyone else’s, then they would have to be you... and being you is not anything more than singular truth.
Vj ~ Whenever you have come to realized that truth is truth and it is for everyone in all ages, and that it does not belong to me, you or anyone's else, know that you are not idiot by your own truth.
So, I find your statement absurd, unless you actually do wish to struggle with yourself about your own definition of true religion. Then, that is your choice as well.
Vj ~ I have found you not only "absurd", but most definitely ignorant, that even though I claim to propagate "true religion" you have made no attempt to refute it. If it is your right to tell me that all have their own truth why is it not my right to tell all that there is one truth? Hello CheezeUs - June 22, 1999 Holy cow ---Ann.
Vj ~ Somehow, I knew Ann could be somewhat "Holy", but not a cow!
I post my messages for a kick to see how Singee will reply.
Vj ~ It seems your nature is changing again - kicking is the trait of jackass.
I can't wait to see his reply to yours and then his reply to this posting commenting upon yours.
Vj ~ I hope I haven't disappointed you so far.
I Am The Eggman
Vj ~ Impossible! Neither a pig nor a jackass lays eggs. Ann: Holy Cheezus....
Vj ~ You sure are full of holes. It must be as a result of all the holes in your Torah.
I am smiling BUT not on this board!
Vj ~ Perhaps it is time to abandon your 'truth' which has let you down again. I smile everywhere, such is the strength of my truth.
Dialogue 18 Back to contents Hello _----Ann - June 24, 1999 Ultimately there is only one truth. Vj ~ Well, isn't that what I am saying along? Changing your tune now, eh! What happens to each his/her own?
Those of us involved in the search for truth, be it science, religion, philosophy also realize that as more is learned, the truth changes.
Vj ~ Whenever you find this "one truth" you will come to know that it is people who change and not truth.
The truth changes due to our ability to understand it, regardless of that, the truth is still there...
Vj ~ Whatever changes, cannot be truth because truth is one, for all and in all ages. It would be nice to give an example, but I guess will cause you more confusion.
we just understand more.
Vj ~ Understanding without the correct knowledge can never lead to the ultimate truth. When truth is presented for discussions, one must be prepared to argue for or against it. So far you have failed to do so.
As with something as personal as religion, where we cannot "prove" to all people that there is a Master of the Universe, we rely very much on subjective opinion.
Vj ~ Religion is only personal because of ignorance and you are very far from an opinion much less a "subjective" one.
So, to call me an idiot is invalid...to call me one who seeks and sees this truth from another path is more appropriate and only shows that when you condemn, you show the very thing you label on another.
Vj ~ It is an idiot who denounces a "truth" presented before investigating it. You have made no attempt to discuss the subject opinion at hand, but instead, seek to defend those who are as ignorant as you are. Do you really call this sensible?
As Gandhi said...and I paraphrase, I would be a Christian if it weren't for the Christians.
Vj ~ Perhaps another idiot like yourself, how is it possible to be a Christian if there weren't any to begin with.
I think this can be said about every belief system.
Vj ~ Very true, and it is the reason so many fools, yourself included, are following blindly. If you had the intellect to examine what I have presented you would have noticed that it is a belief system meeting certain guide lines (harmony in reasoning, science and conformity with natural laws) which are not practical in other beliefs.
And it is a result of our very uniqueness as individuals and our unique oneness with self.
Vj ~ It is not by "uniqueness" and "oneness" that truth is known but by reasoning guided by the correct knowledge.
Tolernace is a necessity in this world,
Vj ~ Tolerance is mankind's failure or weakness to seek the "one ultimate truth" that can bring universal harmony. It is a measure to bide time without the aggravation of controversy until death not knowing if your belief is true or false. Perhaps you see nothing wrong in that, but from my point of view, it lead to further pain and misery for the world and future generations to come.
to spread hatred of others or to use abusive language against them is not being practical or facing reality.
Vj ~ On the other hand, it could be "abusive language" for "others" own good. If the surgeon recommends surgery (abusive means), it simply means that pills (tolerance) has outlived it usefulness.
Again, your opinion is your own only!
Vj ~ Very true, but what truth can come out of any opinion if one is only resigned to one's own, a reality we must also face. Hello CheezeUs - June 25, 1999 And for all the little piggies life is getting worse.
Vj ~ You should know, you murder them (Kosha) to appease your appetite. It is even worst for the human soul that devour the corpse. Cheers to your friend Wais_Obiken And we do like to watch SinghVj the jackass kick, especially when he kicks the weezedom of his own sages as he did my last post. Pitiful really...
Vj ~ I could care less of whom I "kick" as long as you fools are happy. This Jackass is a blind one who doesn't even recognize the weezdom of his own Guru Jackass.
Vj ~ I can see perfect harmony coming, in a world of jackasses there are really no wars or hate, not even religion.
Dialogue 19 Back to contents Hello CheezeUs - June 26,1999 Topic:FIVE TESTS OF TRUE RELIGION Adam & Eve. Abraham's contemporaries. Abraham had backbone; he didn't need an idol or a "god" sitting on a bed of roses and pearls. Bilaam was a non-Israelite prophet. Vj ~ Think again Cheeze-head! To your knowledge is your response any close to answering the first test? Think about it for a moment, had YAHWE perhaps revealed the "Ten Commandments in the beginning, Adam and Eve would not have sinned, Abraham - adultery, Lot - incest, Noah - dancing naked and Yahwe would had no need to destroy the whole world except Noah, his family, and two of each creatures. How difficult can this be for any human with a little bit of common sense to figure out, that YAHWE is not an omniscient god, neither is he just nor compassionate and merciful in depriving so many of much needed ethical and moral instructions as the "Ten Commandments"? It must conform with natural laws.
Ludicrous. God is OMNIPOTENT.
Vj ~ Yes it is ludicrous that an Omnipotent, All-perfect and an All-wise God can violate his own laws to accommodate the ignorant, lustful and lazy.
It must be in harmony with reasoning.
Morality is defined by God, not man.
Vj ~ That would depend on whose God is making the definition. God can never be inconsistent. What is wrong (incest) now could neither have been right in the past nor will it in the future.
Incest (An interesting obsession of yours)...
Vj ~ Perhaps if you too make it an obsession, you may feel enough guilt to realize its true effect, in that, it is action that was always demoralizing in spite of the era (age).
The Egyptian Pharoahs would disagree. The Greeks would disagree. The Romans would disagree.
Vj ~ Perhaps, they (Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians) and many before them could have been misled by the your scripture also. Now that it is scientifically proven that it leads to mental and physical infirmities shows that the Torah/Bible is not in harmony with science much less good ethics and morals.
It must be in harmony with science. Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 (biblical age) years old.
This statement carries no credibility.
Vj ~ And what do you know that is credible to an idiot?
Does a woman give birth immediately after conception? Of course not.
Vj ~ Neither does she in six days!
God's ultimate design and intentions for mankind obviously required a world that was 5 billion years old.
Vj ~ Hey Cheeze-head, a 2000 car is usually built in 1998 or 1999, but it is the year that it is complete and ready for the market that its age is accountable for. The process of making bread may begin a lot earlier, but only when it is fully baked it is called bread. The same with the universe where its age is only accountable for when it is ready for use.
If Adam & Eve were placed on a planet 1 day old, how hospitable do you think the environmental conditions would be?
Vj ~ It could have been the best thing for this civilization, there would have been no Satan, no incest, no Torah and no one brainwashed. Above all YAHWE would have not looked as stupid as he is now.
Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences :- [1]Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
I can go for that.
Vj ~ These five tests are all in harmony with each other, agreeing with one or two and rejecting the others, is the intelligence of a fool.
[2] Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
I can go for that.
Vj ~ Still an idiot! Where does it say in your Torah, that there are past and future creations? Right now, YAHWE has no purpose for the present creation, what would be the purpose of the others? Truth is not some guesswork, but requires good reasoning habits. It would do you a lot of good to study my site and then refute or agree, rather than asking me to explain the crap you pick up on other sites.
[3] Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.
I can go for that. A centralized civilization can produce consistent literature.
Vj ~ Not a "centralized society", but a revelation (philosophy) that is in harmony with reasoning, science and conforms with natural laws. This way no one can be misguided by the mere action of reading from any work or book.
[4] History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryan) civilization.
The problem with these stories is that they smack of Greek mythology; or maybe Greek mythology smacks of Vedic mythology.
Vj ~ It certainly makes no difference when the Torah breaches the immutable laws of nature which offers rational guidance to Vedic history. Unless one is prepared to work strenuously to ingrain the correct reasoning habit to understand these laws, one is doomed to pain and misery by following what they were only taught to believe in.
Point 4, History is where The Jewish Scriptures score big time.
Vj ~ Rationally speaking it defies all logics - revelation should contain no historical references, since it is from God and not known to any human being before. "Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing is revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God." Thomas Paine.
The same goes for the Torah (Judaism), Q'uran (Islam), Puranas (Hinduism), etc. where they are all flooded with mythology and historical references.
The Torah makes statements regarding fish and animal life that have never been refuted.
Vj ~ The Q'uran also have statements regarding the embryo which are scientifically true, but a few truths here and there simple means these books, which are most inconsistent, have borrowed them (already existing) from somewhere else.
The agricultural laws and the plethera of crops in the sixth year, lasting for 3 years, proved the divinity of The Jewish Scriptures. Too much to list.
Vj ~ And what did centuries of slavery and the recent holocaust proved? It cannot be divinity since righteousness brings rewards of happiness and not pain and suffering.
Go ahead, Singer. Insult me. This is naught else you can do to disprove empirical evidence.
Vj ~ Know that if you feel insulted, you are a fool, because that is what truth will usually do any idiot.
Dialogue 20 Back to contents Hello Baruch - Jul 26 2001
Baruch - Your response deserves a book of responses! So many concepts, so little time. * Vj ~ It is only fools who lack time and what you lack now follows you into the next life, so when will you have time? Baruch - too true. Rabbi Hillel said ... if not you, who, if not now, when. Another rabbi said ... if you don't study now because you don't have the time, maybe you will never have the time. Vj ~ Isn't that what I meant in the first place? Instead of quoting like an idiot, why apply to your life so that you can find time? Baruch - myth doesn't equal false and fact doesn't equal true! * Vj ~ So lame-brain, Baruch is neither false nor true, is he also myth? Baruch - why yes of course. I am just a figment of Brahman's imagination right? But Baruch means 'blessing' and if we have the right intention and make the right effort, that is no myth!
Vj ~ How could one "have the right intention and make the right effort" in the absence of the correct knowledge (in conformity with natural laws)? Baruch - Revelation is realization of the presence of G-d in the world, and from that realization we make useful tools, myths, that allow us to live better. * Vj ~ Your skull could have been cracked for a while which would explain why your brains have leaked out. How does the myth of martyrdom in Islam, which calls for the murder of innocent non-muslims, Judaism's claim of all non- Jews as satanic and Christ's proclamation that he is the only way to salvation, allow us to live better Baruch - you need to get more educated. Both Islam and early Christianity have a myth of martyrdom. It is the 'satanic' other who kills the believer, not the other way around. The Christian and Islamic approach to opposition is theoretically peaceful, but boys will be boys ;-( The Jews were taught that the gentiles are satanic because the gentiles repeatedly oppress and kill them ... a natural but non-spiritual reaction. Spiritual Judaism knows that the gentiles are not satanic, just mislead like everyone else, including the Jews.
Vj ~ So Cain, who slew Abel, the believer, was satanic and Yahwe who slew 70,000 israelites (believers) was satanic? If you truly had any brains you would have long put it to good use. Baruch - Yahweh and Yeshua are meditation deities, not the Absolute, they are mythos. That is the reason for the inconsistency ... and our inability to reason around apparent paradoxes. * Vj ~ You are indeed a brainless twit! Only an idiot would let "mythos" intefer with the absolute and if they are "mythos" why would the absolute create them to mislead you? Secondly, if you do not have the ability to reason why do you continue to object to one who is willing to teach you. Baruch - mythos doesn't interfere with the Absolute, it is only my temporal tool to climb toward the Absolute. I created them under inspiration, not (directly) the Absolute. I have never objected to you at all ... and you have already taught me many things ... you are very funny and very mistaken about me.
Vj ~ Under whose inspiration have you created them? If it is the temporal, why not seek the inspiration of the absolute? This is quite interesting, what have I taught you so far? I am well trained by true knowledge to diagnose a human with a jackass intellect, so how could I be mistaken about you? You are jumping to a conclusion, claiming a victory before anyone has crossed the finish line ;-) * Vj ~ Why shouldn't I, when I have lapped the field already with only one lap to go? You, on the other hand, have yet to begin the race. You are not even at the games yet. Your conclusions are based on your own ignorance due to your failure to examine my faith. Like other idiots of false dogmas, you make up your own interpretations to fit your own ignorance of what religion and who God should be. I on the other hand, have constructively criticized (all beliefs including atheism) what is false to show what is true. Baruch - I have examined it superficially. This string is derived from my constructive criticism of your 'five principles', which I mostly agree with.
Vj ~ You are so full of shit! If we are in agreement how come there is still criticism of all? Why don't you examine everything else including your own religion "superficially" if you think it is not that serious?Baruch - I would hope I am beyond cure today, since to be fully cured is to be dead! * Vj ~ What nonsense is this idiot? If death is the cure of all ills, who needs revelation or God? Baruch - If I made sense I would be secular and miss the mark. Of course death (in the conventional sense) is the cure of all ills because through it we are joined to G-d, who is himself the cure of cures. Revelation is like knowing we are in the examining room, being examined by a nurse ... and that the doctor himself will be along shortly ;-) Also, if you see my answer to a more recent string above, it is my belief that we are in fact dead, and are awaiting birth into eternity!
Vj ~ If you die in ignorance, it is not a cure otherwise the wise would not have made any effort at all to seek knowledge. And how could there be eternity for us, when only God is eternal (that which has neither beginning nor end)?Baruch - I don't get your use of the word static ... * Vj ~ It is better to accept it as it is, because a perverted intellect (non-functional) could never get use to it. Baruch - Ok, I will take my hypothetical assumption as to its meaning as being true then.
Vj ~ Either way your are still an idiot born to deceive. Baruch - Your appraisal of me is very inaccurate if that is true. * Vj ~ Not from the point of view of true knowledge. Baruch - But no temporal point of view equals the view of true knowledge.
Vj ~ True, but how would you know that when you have no idea of what true knowledge consists of? One versed in true knowledge knows that the views of the temporal belongs to fools and not wise men.Baruch - I also don't get your reference to me as a hypocrite ... * Vj ~ Do you really think a hypocrite knows he is a hypocrite and cheat? Those who have failed to do thorough and impartial investigations of all philosophical treatises, before impressing on the world their own conclusions, are hypocrites. Baruch - Well I am glad that you have finally completed what I have already accomplished long ago. But don't be surprised that we didn't come to exactly the same conclusions ... after all, we are only temporal.
Vj ~ What have you accomplished when you are still a fool, as you were long ago? A fool (you) and a wise man can never come to the same conclusion and if are temporal (finite) how could eternal life after death be possible? Your god seems to be the biggest of all idiots.Baruch - My victory or defeat is of no consequence, but your ego betrays itself. * Vj ~ How could that be idiot, when you know nothing of the faith I propagate? Baruch - Then your five principles are not principles at all? If I know the foundation of what you believe, then by reasonable implication I know you completely, if your development of your ideas is rigorous. As per Euclid, if I know what all triangles are like, I only have to keep in mind an ideal triangle to know them all.
Vj ~ It is principles of the absolute that you cannot refute with your "temporal views". True knowledge is not as simple as three lines connected together in triangular shape. You have been continuously making yourself a fool, not knowing how much nonsense you are belching out to defend not only your beliefs but all the others. As far as I am concern you know zilch about of what I believe.Baruch - ellipses alert, ellipses alert! You didn't answer my rhetorical question, which was from a soul as innocent as those you claim I mislead. I lead no one, I merely witness to what I experience, no more. * Vj ~ The question has been long answered, but if the idiot who keeps asking it hasn't the intelligence to draw a conclusion from all I have posted including my site, then whose fault it is? Baruchc - well I suppose that an implied response is better than none at all. Thanks.
Vj ~ If it benefits you fine, but so far you are still the same idiot as your first post. Baruch - what you say here is good, if a playing with words, but duty is a lesser motivation that bhakti, devotion. * Vj ~ Duty (Dharma) entails everything including devotion. It is because you are an idiot (spelling or freudian slip?) that you seek to separate them. What good is devotion without the correct knowledge? It simple shows that even devotion is a sin, if practiced incorrectly. Baruch - You touch on a great matter. Does faith come before knowledge or knowledge before faith. You have come down on the horn of one polarity. I would prefer to consider it a false dichotomy, like most temporal things.
Vj ~ Obviously it is (correct) knowledge that comes before faith, it is the only way faith can be in harmony with reasoning, science and conforms with natural laws. An atheist has a better chance at enlightenment than an idiot (you) who follows blindly. Baruch - If your belief is theism, what is the name of your G-d, unless Dharma, and is it personal or impersonal? * Vj ~ My God has a name for His nature, every attributes and characteristics which one are you interested to know? He is always permanent and there are no second, third, fourth, etc. (temporary). Baruch - Thanks, but what is the name for His nature, and are the list of attributes longer than the 99 the Muslims count? Kabbalists limit themselves to 10.
Vj ~ His nature is SAT (truth), CHIT (consciousness) and ANAND (bliss). When you have come to realize what His nature is, only then you will be able to understand that He is free of all negative actions (anger, remorseful, etc.) And because He is TRUTH He is forbidden to deprive any of revelation in its entirety.Baruch - before Noah ... that are implied ... were earth angels ... in fact all the folks before the Deluge were earth angels or the offspring of rebellious angels and earthly angels. * Vj ~ If you believe there were angels and still do see angels, you belong in a lunatic asylum (another deliberate mis-appeal? -not when I speaking to an ass.). Baruch - Well I certainly hope so! Bedlam is the corrupt pronunciation of the asylum called Bethlehem near London. And I certainly hope I am in some way always in Bethlehem.
Vj ~ Why not aspire to be in the real Bethlehem (Palestine )where you could be guaranteed an early trip to 'Yahwe's heaven' while at the same time the martyr (muslim) can gain his paradise also? Baruch - Medicine is still being discovered, no doctor has the whole course ... I expect sharper wits from you ;-) Know vs know. I channel a spirit imperfectly. And I experience indirectly and directly. I only know now, but will Know fully later. * Vj ~ How can one without wit be the judge of those of wits? What doctor of medicine have graduated and because "medicine is still being discovered" is yet to receive a medical degree? Baruch - A degree is only a bone tossed to convention and careerism. And those who are ignorant make perfect judges of the knowing, the witless of the witty. If the witty tell a good joke, and the witless laugh, then it is a good joke indeed!
Vj ~ You are a brainless twit! A degree must be earned by those who have made the effort to acquire it. It is necessary because common sense dictates that it is necessary, otherwise many could be deprived of proper medical treatment. The joke is your method of salvation which is tossed like a bone to every idiot that can grab at it, a passport to heaven without a single thread of effort to be made.
Baruch - Per Paul, the teachers are judged more harshly than the students, since they know better. * Vj ~ Paul himself needs a lesson on who is suppose to be a teacher. Were the Jews (teachers) the only ones subjected to persecution and tyranny throughout the ages? Baruch - Of course not, but Jews are champions at kvetching about tsuris, complaining about trouble. All of creation suffers the birth pangs, until the baby is delivered.
Vj ~ So are they still in the womb? They are the "champions" of unrighteousness, it is the reason why trouble always follow them. Baruch - And G-d is made perfect through weakness, not strength. * Vj ~ How can an All-powerful God be weakened because of fools like you? You are completely nuts my friend and you haven't an iota of sense when it comes to the attributes of God. Baruch - our list of attributes may differ, but we will have to wait and see about that yes? Think in terms of a circle not a line ... the starting point is the ending point ... to be all powerful in theory is to be perfectly weak in practice.
Vj ~ My list differs because it deals with the absolute authenticated by a source knowledge, while yours deal with the temporary, a figment of your own imagination. If I think in terms of a circle, it would simply mean that I could become an imbecile, like you going around in circles. Baruch - If the Jews in Poland had ignored their anti-gentile rabbis and gone abroad before it was too late, had been both as wise as serpents and innocent as doves, more would have survived. * Vj ~ It is not the "anti-gentile rabbis" that is the demise of the Jewish race, it is their worship of a false god. Where was your god when it all happened, busy having sex with Sarah and Virgin Mary in heaven? Baruch - Sex is the highest form of worship for Hasidim, and for Tantrists. Guess kundalini resembles orgasm. G-d is everywhere, like the prophetic Rachel, crying for her hurt and dying offspring like any good mother.
Vj ~ Abstinence (practice of celibacy) brings great rewards. The "good" can only suffer in your religion because your god is unjust or false.Baruch - absolutely right. Jewish and Christian chauvinism comes from the Devil, but Judaism and Christianity do not. * Vj ~ If you believe the devil to be something else than yourself, then that too warrants confinement to the lunatic assylum (there goes that strange misspelling again. Are you anal retentive? either that or you are still an ass) Baruch - The messiah is the serpent, and to the extent I channel Yeshua, I channel the serpent, who as any Jew would know, is also, paradoxically, the Adversary. In this way the Devil is like the vision of Iblis in Islam, the most loyal subject of Allah ... who is eventually redeemed (retired?) from the role of adversary assigned to him by Allah.
Vj ~ Right now it seems that the Muslims are Jewish devils and the Jews the Islamic devils. Whose assignment is it?
*Baruch - not at all. I love the Q'uran, which I do regard as valid revelation if correctly interpreted by the spiritual instead of the worldly. * Vj ~ How do you interpret this spiritual - "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors:..." Sura 5:54.? Baruch - all temporal revelation is temporal and therefore imperfect. What Muhammad is saying is 'take me for your example, not these others'. He is making his claim to leadership, but that is always tainted with egotism and self interest.
Vj ~ He sexually molested a nine year-old child (Aisha), are you saying that pedophilia is one of his good examples of leadership? Frankly speaking Baruch, you have got nothing but shit in your head.* Vj ~ Well jackass, if temporal revelations brought about such hatred and divisions as these, what good are they then to human race? Baruch - Half a loaf is better than none to a starving man! It was the temporality or man, not the revelations themselves, that bring discord. Keep 'actor' and 'acted upon' separate.
Vj ~ Never mind "half a loaf" you don't even have a slice (a clue) to what true revelation means. Only an idiot would make up the "temporal" which leads no where but to utter pain and misery. If centuries of this pain or misery has not yet taught you that the"temporal" has failed miserably, then your race is destined to suffer more of it. Baruch - True Islam is not anti-jewish or anti-christian, but the Caliphs thought otherwise when it came to slave girls and plunder, like all others tempted by conquest. * Vj ~ True Islam is what is written in the Q'uran and what I have quoted from the Q'uran you are dismissing it as untrue. Are you that stupid, man? Stop and think (reason) for while, that is, if you have got any brains left. Baruch - Your quotation is factual, but your interpretation (like many others) is false. Scripture is a fact, but interpretation is truth.
Vj ~ It is already interpreted by its factual presentation? Besides Muhammad himself was guilty of making wars with the Jews and seducing Jewish widows born of them. I can't see how a religion can be true by killing unbelievers to attain salvation. Baruch - not fear, efficiency. Web sites that are constantly mutating and are, by hyperlinks, non-linear, are a trendy but inferior way of conveying truth. A BB is much more effective, but not as good as being face to face in a yeshiva. * Vj ~ What difference does it make to the earnest searcher of truth if the book is on the web, a library or a bookstore? It would take an imbecile to simple dismiss it as any other web site without investigating its truth. Baruch - I did not dismiss it, but the life lies in dialog with another, not something static as texts.
Vj ~ Stupid, life (benefit) lies in dialogue only when the opposing participants are acquainted with each other's text (scripture). You have enlivened me always since we first met.
Vj ~ I doubt it since it is only the wise can draw wisdom from a fool. Baruch - If Christians understood Paul, and because of Satan's temptation or antisemitism, most do not, they would know that there is more than one way to be saved (you don't have to be a Christian, Christianity is a means and not an end), * Vj ~ More than one way to be saved from what? All I see is different heavens which are segregated abodes, each their own faith group. So is a Jew suppose to save him/herself from going to a Muslim paradise or vice versa.
Baruch - Very creative ... I am impressed. No, while Jews and Muslims in their temporal state would believe so, the love of the Father for all his children will be the only reality. Even the prophets have to be populist some times ;-(
Vj ~ Some kind of "love of the Father" - they are constantly butchering one another and the Father is no where. How is it possible that the murderers (muslims) and the victims (Jews) to share the same "reality"? Do you really mean to say brainless, that all is forgotten and forgiven when they all come before this imbecile of a Father? What hopelessly disgusting religions you professed! Baruch - Christ as Absolute, this is true, Jesus as meditation deity, culturally and individually mutated, this is not true. Only the King can let you in the palace and there is one King, but many views of him exist. * Vj ~ If you are implying that one God exists and there are many paths to Him, you are definitely in for a surprise. A muslim path to his paradise is killing a Jew (infidel), does this make any sense to you jackass? Baruch - only to a deluded Muslim. Conventionally the best way for him to get to heaven is to be killed by an infidel not the other way around ... and was the same for the Jews of old ... or did you not know that the Muslims borrowed a lot from Judaism. But an advanced Muslim (Sufi) and an advanced Jew (Kabbalist) knows that violence is not required at all, love is. Vj ~ If all Jews killed by Muslims have gone to heaven, then why the high security in Israel? Why would Jews want to live in fear all their lives when all they need to get to heaven is a bunch rebellious Hisbollah given the freedom to kill at will? I know the Muslims borrowed a lot from Judaism, why do you think they are so ignorant? Advanced in what, ignorance? Baruch - But in brief, temporally we suffer from temporality, eternally we rejoice in bliss. * Vj ~ How can God who is himself not All-bliss offer eternal bliss? Again if the soul is not eternal how can it enjoy eternal bliss? Do you understand the meaning of eternal - "that which has neither beginning nor an end"? Baruch - Yes, a circle has neither beginning nor end. Both G-d and the soul are like circles ... but the G-d beyond G-d or Ein Sof is like the center of the circle, a source but not on it. But I thought that you yourself gave the attribute of All-Bliss to your god, am I mistaken?
Vj ~ A circle is not circle if there is no one around to call it a circle, so it is not eternal. If God and soul is eternal how come this is His only creation where souls come to life to seek His eternal bliss? I don't see any purpose for this at all. He could have dwelled in a like manner all through eternity instead of this only creation which he has screwed up so badly. I was referring to your god who at times act worst than an infidel, killing through anger and becoming horny at the sight of virgins.If I blew up a Catholic Church in the name of the Catholic Church, would the Catholic Church be guilty? A bad argument Vijai ... do better next time. * Vj ~ When the Catholic religion is full of apologies for being responsible for persecution, sexual abuse, tyranny and barbarism , how could it not be held guilty for the bombing? Baruch - You missed my point ... but on the other hand ... nobody can learn without making mistakes, so I guess the Catholics have learned a lot!
Vj ~ I didn't miss the point idiot, a religion that could not prevent pain or misery could not be the cure for it. Baruch - War is caused by corruption, which is present in everything. * Vj ~ It is what I have been saying along, that if corruption is present in "everything"( religion), then it is not true religion. Baruch - We agree. But we won't have uncorruptible religion until we enter eternity.
Vj ~ What an idiot you are - it is like saying that until you start practicing medicine only then you are qualified to enroll for a medical degree. Hey jackass, if we are already in eternity (heaven) why would we need "uncorruptible religion". In other words, if I am already practicing medicine why would I need to go to university?
Suffering in India for example, is not caused by religion, it is caused by politics and economics. The same thing in Palestine and N. Ireland. True religion is the cure in all cases. * Vj ~ Listen lame brain, pain and suffering whether they be political, economical or natural , are the result of unrighteousness. God is just and as such no innocent soul can suffer. True religion, which is in harmony with reasoning and science, and conforms with natural laws, is the only cure for pain and misery. Baruch - We agree again ... I just express the idea differently. But there are no innocent souls, and the full cure requires the death of the patient (as symbolically related by the Passion of Jesus).
Vj ~ So why do we need doctors when death is the cure? It must be a utter disgrace to your religion to prolong the life of the chronically sick, when death is the cure. Why do we even need god or revelation when death is the final cure? I can't believe a man can be so ignorant even in the face of good logic and reason. Baruch - G-d is omniscient, but not omnipotent in the temporal world, else the world would not be temporal. * Vj ~ Could it not be that He is always Omniscient and Omnipotent and that the "temporal world" of pain and misery is His divine justice? Why are you twisting God's attributes to the lowest of your ignorance? Baruch - A good point. Some of the scripture writers felt as you do. But I would say that G-d is both just, merciful and modest ... and more highly developed souls lean more toward mercy and modesty than you do ;-)
Vj ~ You must be guessing bone-head, since your truth lies in "eternity"? Baruch - Revelation does conform to nature, you are just mistaken as to what nature really is (a manmade way of dealing with reality, not reality itself). * Vj ~ I am speaking of natural laws jackass, and not nature itself. There are laws which are responsible for the orderly functions of the world through nature. This is what I am speaking of. Out of nothing, nothing can come, it is the first law which your Torrah, Bible and Q'uran have breached. Baruch - Only in literal interpretation. The miracle of an budding flower doesn't require a suspension of natural law. The miracle lies in how we relate to it ... and all miracles are of this type.
Vj ~ The budding flower, which is a steady occurrence of nature, is not a miracle, but the raising of dead, which is unsteady an only occurred 2,000 years ago is. It is this miracle that breaches the law, idiot!
There is only one revelation, one story, one history, but it appears inconsistent because it is in the process to being revealed in temporality, and can't be revealed all at once, because as temporal beings we can't experience everything at once, but only one thing at a time. * Vj ~ Perhaps if your god was gracious enough to reveal it all at once you'd be surprise what a human is capable of. Besides if you are not capable of experiencing "everything at once" in this life whose fault is that, God? Here is one who has done it in a less than a life time and for reasons beyond our control, there are other lives to come where one can accomplish it. Baruch - If a finite sack is filled with infinity, it will surely burst. In G-d's mercy, G-d won't do that. Perhaps you have reached your apogee, but how sad to have nothing to look forward to. And I am sure that your accomplishments were built on your previous lives as well.
Vj ~ Certainly, my past life has to do with my accomplishments, but this accomplishment is only a speck of dust of what is yet to come for me. There is certainly a lot for me look forward to and the truth I disseminate is my path to this goal. Use your head, if it is the truth that sets us free how can we gain freedom (salvation) before knowing the truth? *Baruch - like I said above, the 10 commandments aren't in Genesis, but all five books were revealed to Adam etal. * Vj ~Then it was up to Moses to dig it out from the five books to remind those who have lost it, and not up to God to reveal time and again what man has rejected or lost by their own fault. Baruch - Up to Moses yes, but he wouldn't have done so without inspiration, nothing is done without inspiration. And you are right that we are careless children ... but I can see that in relation to my own child.
Vj ~ You call it inspiration, I call it inclination, it is a gift that came with the soul because of its virtuous actions of the past. It will be unjust of God to give inspiration or pain to a soul if it didn't earn it in a past life.
Swami Dayannad came with very high inclinations, he went out on his own with the aid of existing teachers to rediscover an existing truth, instead of receiving a new revelation from God. This is what truth and Justice of God is consisted of - a revelation that already took place in the beginning of creation for the whole human race. There is no need for God, the All-perfect, to intervene every now and then to make revelation. If the religions you have studied do not have the truth to set you free, then it is your duty to keep on looking until you find one without any contradiction. Baruch - with G-d's help, yes. He was the only one ready for it, by virtue of his humility and compassion. * Vj ~ So according to your logic, "virtue and compassion" are also traits of a murderer. Your god is surely short of logic also, to think that being god he could have easily find a soul free of such devious crimes to commune with. Baruch - My G-d is a realist not an idealist. He also called David (which means beloved) as a man after his own heart, and he was a man of war and adultery and murder. Like the father of the prodigal son, He can overlook our faults if He wants, when we come to Him in teshuvah (repentance).
Vj ~ It is you who want him to overlook your faults because you are too damn lazy to do the right thing - earn it by strenuous effort. The Torrah, Bible and Q'uran are written by shameless ignoramuses who themselves have committed enormous sins of murder, incest, adultery, etc. What kind of God would breach His All-blissful state to commune with these filthy vulgar maniacs you call prophets? Think of it lame-brain, what would deter man from sinning if there is forgiveness?Baruch - Heaven has many rooms, to which each human type pertains. * Vj ~ Who labored to build these rooms when heaven is supposed to be a blissful state for everyone. Baruch - it is a poetical analogy. When an Israelite married, he took his wife to live in the added on bedroom of his Father's house. No segregation, just the privacy of individuality.
Vj ~ So is there a room for you and your wife in the hereafter also? Is there a room prepared in your god's house for a Muslim, a Christian and a Hindu? If not, think segregation! Baruch - It appears you have not taken to heart the ending of the Mahabharata. * Vj ~ The Mahabharata is not a revelation but etihas (history). Why don't you try to persuade your wayward ego to do some soul searching and relieve yourself of the dense ignorance that has taken hold of static intellect before it is too late? Right now you sound more like a jackass on two legs spewing out worthless commentaries. Baruch - If I am a jackass on too legs, then like the talking dog, the wonder isn't how bad I talk but that I can talk at all ;-) All poetry is revelation ... and history is just the lower two levels of a four level system of literary criticism. The higher two being allegory. Why would I soul search, my soul is right here!
Vj ~ So are the souls of a dog and a jackass or perhaps in your religion, they have no souls? There is only
one revelation and it is at one level the highest which no human can contradict because it is complete perfection from an All-perfect God. Whether it be poetry or allegory, one must first acquire the proper reasoning habits before they can be read and understood.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth Translation |
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