Seth Column Page 7

1. Florence asks: How can you say there is no cause and effect? The Universal Law of Cause and Effect is what makes humanity what it is today.
Barrie Responds: The Universal Law of Cause and Effect only affects one focus of reality...and makes humanity like it is today as does any other physical illusion...like a wall or a glass of water...both work well or we'd freeze our buns off in the winter we have created and pour water all over the pants we have created to cover our souls couched in flesh...
Yet, getting back to your statement, I must tell you that you miss the perspective of reality from which I am speaking. In a very basic way, there are two perspectives to physical reality. One is the every-day-what-do-you- want-for-lunch-what's-on-TV...nuts & bolts level--which is the one most people are always focused on & thus, live in. From the perspective of this level or plane...I agree with you completely--for on this level all the "rules of physics" which we actually created from the inner level...seem to work as absolutes...including your beloved "Mr. Cause & Mrs. Effect."
The other perspective of the physical world is from the "invisible" side--it comes from the invisible, inner or spiritual underside. It is from here that all physical reality springs in the first place. All physical reality is simply symbols we create and make solid to play with & experience emotions & feelings. All physical reality stems from within, is born from within. From within it shoots out onto the physical plane...thus, its origins are all subjective. When we are totally focused on the physical plane alone, and thus following its rules of gravity; & cause & effect (rules, by the way, which we all made up and agreed to in the invisible realm in the first place)--when we focus solely on the physical plane...then "cause & effect" as you speak of comes into play. Yet, at the same time, this "inner" realm of subjectivity reigns supreme...altho unseen.
From the perspective of this "inner" Reality...there is no gravity and no cause & effect. We create the rusting automobile. It does not exist as one thing which rusts as time goes on. Every object is continually appearing and reappearing in microfractions of seconds...and each time it reappears...we are creating it all over again...and we re-create it to fit the laws of physical nature which we have agreed to. And we keep re-creating the "rusty" automobile so it appears to be slowly rusting. From the perspective of "outer" reality...it looks like nothing ever disappears. It appears that the car is rusting from cause & effect. It just so happens this is not the case.
On the one hand, a wall is an illusion, yet it works on the physical plane and keeps out the cold. All physical reality is thus an illusion...one which "works" or else we wouldn't be able to act out our timed dramas & comedies on this camouflaged stage of earth in our timeless & spaceless theater. And one of the "illusions" which "work" is what you call "cause & effect."

2. Florence asks: You say If we murder today we can choose to come back a happy camper. If this is the case what would a murderer have to be sorry about. He/she would just have to say "Oh well I made a booboo, better luck next time". That's not the way it works.
Barrie Responds: What would a murderer have to be sorry about? It seems you believe that an outside source administering punishment (as a parent does to a child--which also doesn't work) is what instills sorrow, compassion & pity in a person. I believe as physical folks or spirits couched in flesh (synonyms) we possess the spiritual, inner, and innate "feelings" called compassion & natural guilt. Natural guilt means to feel sorry when you hurt someone. It doesn't mean the type of guilt one usually associates with crime or religion. This natural guilt is our mechanism to keep us from hurting others again; once we learn that something hurts, we make note of it so as not to repeat it. This is innate; and it goes hand-in-hand with our innate compassion and humor & drive to experience physical things when physical and to play and have fun, too. These are all physically-bound altho spiritual created concepts.
When a person dies and no longer needs physical reality for his energy-form to dwell in; he/she is more in touch with what created these spiritual feelings...and the spirit or oversoul which sends out the personalities in the first place...does not need the device of "punishment" to make the choices necessary to help the next-physical entity "learn" from the "past" life. By the way, people would learn much more about their innate compassion and love...without physical punishment as well.

3. A back-and-forth, give-and-take, between Florence and Barrie on the above two questions:
Florence: Yes we choose to come back, and in that choosing we have judged ourselves for the actions taken in our previous lives.
Barrie: We do not judge ourselves in the moral fashion that you believe, nor from the limited physical perspective from which you speak
Florence: ...and we in some way make retribution.
Barrie: We make retribution if we so desire.
Florence: We will not be let go of the responsibilities of our actions until such a time as there is forgiveness.
Barrie: The people we "hurt" or "kill" or "murder" do not need to give forgiveness in the spiritual, inner realms. From that perspective, they easily see their own choice in being involved in the situation...and they know they were not victims. Forgiveness as you speak of it...is only necessary on the physical plane when one does not see one's "conspiratorial" connects to the "horrible" event. Forgiveness, as you speak of it, is very important on the physical plane as it is part of the lessons of compassion and love we are hear to learn.
Florence: And this does not mean only forgiving ourselves. Karma is a fact of life.
Barrie: Karma does not exist as a form of punishment and does not include an "outer" source of judgment. Nor does it include judgment in the way that a jury judges a defendant. It includes judgment in the way a person ascertains what is best for himself to eat when he/she wakes up in the morning.
Florence: ...and as we continue to ignore this fact, we get deeper and deeper in trouble...
Barrie: There is no trouble. And the only "prison" is the limiting perspective of physical existence we fool ourselves into seeing at the expense of all other realities. The prison is our sole focus on physical reality.
Florence: The Soul does not relate to Karma but the personality definitely does, and until the personality and the soul come together as a unit and stops the wheel of Karma they will never know true peace.
Barrie: The personality and the soul are intrinsically ONE and together. Any separation is due to our focus on solely the physical plane. The personality is a part of the soul...like the tentacle of an octopus is a part of an octopus. Instead of reaching out thru water; each tentacle of our octopus reaching out to another physical time and lifetime.
Florence: We can be as sorry as we want, but we still have to pay the piper, being the person done wrong to.
Barrie: There is no piper; and there is no one done wrong to. There only appears to be people wronged...but we are acting out a comedy/drama with our physical bodies. We create the illusion of people being wronged and of accidents & victims in order to experience situations in which we can experience and learn the emotion/feeling of love & compassion. We know, when we decide who will be the victim and who will be the murderer, that there really is no death at all.
Florence: We do not choose alone, what it is we have to come back to do. We have a Spiritual teacher that goes through with all that we did, right or wrong.
Barrie: We are a part of that spiritual teacher. He/She is us. There is no real separation as we think of in our physical terms.
Florence: ...and it is decided which to focus on. You are not judged by anyone but yourself, and the pain you feel on the other side for what you did is pretty heavy, you don't have to get it from anyone else.
Barrie: There is no pain on the other side. If the other side was like you describe it...it wouldn't even be another side...it would be just like this physical side.
Florence: However, as bad as you feel, that is how strong you feel about undoing what you have done and learning from the experience.
Barrie: You keep mixing up the two perspectives...the physical one...and the spiritual or invisible one. Victims are like walls. Both are illusory; both serve a purpose.
Florence: What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, for one action there is an equal reaction. You cannot escape The Law of Cause and effect, namely Karma.
Barrie: All you mention here is illusion...illusions which work perfectly on the physical plane. The law of cause & effect does not reach into the invisible realms we dwell in once we "die" or for those who were never physical in the first place. This inner realm is one of infinite landscapes & other illusions... constantly created & played with...altho not made physical in our terms. To use one of the illusory adages you are so fond of, you can't put a square peg in a round hole. And that is what you are trying to do when you insist on putting the "laws of physics" into affect in the invisible realms from which those laws were agreed upon in the first place to be used in the physical plane.
Florence: Just a friendly debate?
Barrie: No, this is war!
Florence: Love and Light
Barrie: Love and Light and Dark and Compassion and Confusion and Joy and Tears and Hate and Fun and...and...and...and... infinity of now-ness...all-at-once...which equals a smile with stars as teeth...and spirits dancing thru the nostrils...and with an old caretaker sitting on a rock drinking a beer on his break...as eyes...

4. Sam asks (asked on the Afterlife Knowledge Board): I had more of an experience than a dream in that all aspects of senses were real. I was flying and yet riding a horse. There was no fear, not even of falling. This did not seem like a dream. More of another exsistence.What would be your input on this?

Barrie Responds:
All senses are real in dreams; and this is because dreams are another existence; and not just dreams. From the point of view of the dreaming self, our waking physical world is quite invisible and nonphysical. Conversely, while focused on the dream plane, the events there are quite "physical," altho also quite invisible to those focused on the physical plane.
The concept of physical reality must be maintained to enough of a degree so that the dream itself would be able to have some kind of meaning to the waking self which knows (or remembers) only the physical world (for the most part).
Therefore, dream experiences certainly are real experiences, albeit not physical. As Seth has said, I, too, believe that dreams continue once we wake up. After we awaken, our dream-selves continue their ongoing lives within their dream universe, while our waking consciousness is refocused back into/onto the physical plane.
I also believe that in the dream state we have access to our past and future selves, their dream universes, our own probable pasts and futures, our own probable presents, so-called spirit guides, our inner selves, souls, spirits, and, of course, so-called "dead" people and loved ones.
Often when we dream, we are actually "waking up" in the body of a dream-self (or, in other words, refocusing on a previous dream event or dream universe already-in-progress). Suddenly, our consciousness or focus is in the middle of some situation that has been ongoing without our conscious focus--and in the dream state--we "wake up" in this probable body of ours involved in whatever dream situation it is in.
I think the spiritual realm or afterdeath state has much in common with the dream state--the laws of physics (as they are currently understood) don't apply. You can fly on a horse named "Charlie" who speaks perfect English. You can somehow be in different time periods or different places at the same time, you can breathe underwater, change bodies, instantaneously be somewhere else, and so on. All feeling quite physical.
I also think, as Seth has said, that the REM period of sleep is actually marking the END of the dream cycle and not its beginning. In this so-called "end" part of the dream cycle, the sleeper is actually translating the dream experience so that its waking self can understand at least a part of the experience. This is done by "constructing" in her mind symbols of things that exist in the physical world. These symbols are then remembered and interpreted as the dream experience (altho it is only a small portion of the full dream experience).
Most of the actually dream experiences occur in the deeper stages of sleep. When we know we need to digest the dream, we momentarily come back to our conscious selves in order to translate the dream and then receive our own translation of the dream. It is this action and interaction that is what scientists perceive as the REM state.
And just as "real, waking life" goes on in an invisible fashion from the point of view of the dreamer/sleeper's "dream self" experiencing his/her dream experiences; so, too, the dream world goes on unabated--after the sleeper wakes up. In this "waking up" process the dreamer's physical consciousness "leaves the body" of the dream-self and refocuses back into the realm in which the bed and the rest of physical reality resides.

5. Anonymous asks: How can you say we "control the world?" That's ridiculous. You must have a desperate need for power or to control the world. What we do control, though, are our "reactions" to the world.

Barrie Responds:
Altho I never actually said we "control the world," I do agree in part with what you write. You believe that we solely control our reactions to the world. I agree with you that we do, indeed, control our reactions to the world. Yet, I also believe that more goes on "beneath the surface" before we are faced with the world that we then react to.
Also, it bears repeating--just because the world springs from within...doesn't mean that we control the world. A flower springs from a seed...but that doesn't mean that the seed "controls" the flower. The word "control" does not fit in at all with the concept I am trying to explain.
A drop of liquid spilled...forms a design on the floor. The design springs forth from the drop of liquid after it hits the floor...but the drop of falling liquid does not "control" the design.
So, I don't think that we control the world...like we control an automobile or control a pet by putting it on a leash or control anything in that manner....
I do think that the world springs forth from our internal, invisible realms....and that its events and objects are based on our belief systems both individually & en masse.
By "belief systems," I don't mean simply those beliefs which have to do with surface or wishful thinking...I mean something much deeper. I mean beliefs which then become actualized as the reality we experience.
For example, some beliefs many people have (which they accept as reality instead of beliefs) are: accidents are real; I am unlovable; the universe is dangerous; love relationships are difficult; evil is stronger than good; evil exists; evil doesn't exist; physical reality is all of reality; etc etc.
The person who believes that love relationships are difficult, will find themselves involved in difficult love relationships. Then, they will point to the relationships and say, "Is this a belief? No! This is reality!" They are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Their encounters with difficult love relationships occur because of the belief...and not the other way around.
So you see, I don't mean beliefs like...I believe it will rain tomorrow; I believe that red is a color. Let me add, that I also don't mean "beliefs" to be used as a synonym for "wishes" or "wishful thinking."
I happen to sincerely feel and believe that beliefs create reality and that physical reality springs forth from the inner realms. Emerson put it this way, "The universe is the externalization of the soul."
In any case, as far as I consciously feel--I believe these things because they "feel" right inside. They click, ring true, and/or make sense to me. I feel no desperation, or rationalization going on; nor do I feel a need for power or control. But rather--as I've said--these ideas make simple, logical and reasonable sense to me...from my way of seeing the world and what's real...and how things work--which is--we create our own reality.
Many misinterpret this concept, and think that I mean you can therefore wish a million dollars in your bank...and "whoosh" it'll be there the next day; or that you can simply wish away world hunger. Again, that type of "wishful thinking" is simply the carnival end of these ideas...which one finds in science fiction.
The reasons why types of these things don't just "happen" because we believe them--is because on a deeper and stronger level--we hold beliefs which counter these beliefs and which keep these realities from springing forth. Also, we cannot "impose" our beliefs on another...and simply "wish" another person be fed, be killed, be rich, or so on. Each person has his/her integrity and has made his/her choices to be in the situation he/she is in.
What we do have...is the choice (as you have stated) of how to react to this person's plight. Do we choose the compassionate path and help the person? Or do we ignore his suffering? That choice is our "reaction" to the world...of which you write. I say that we should choose to help those who have chosen to suffer. For it is in this manner that we learn about love and compassion and experience the feelings and emotions that arise accordingly.
When it comes to materializing a million dollars in the bank...we would do so if we did not have deeper, conflicting, and stronger beliefs which keep the money away from us. On a surface level we may desire riches--but on a deeper level--we desire exactly what we have--with all of the questions which we discover inside ourselves at this very moment.
If ever we did change our beliefs about money and riches...we would draw to us experiences which would lead to acquiring that million dollars. We would have a little difficulty just "materializing" the money because of deeper beliefs we have about materializing objects of physical reality.
In any case, to summarize, I don't believe that we "control" the world. What I believe is that we create our personal reality...and, together with all others, we create all of physical reality with all of its rules and laws of nature & science. And we believe in these laws of nature and physics on a deep, spiritual level. And this is why we do not simply grow a third arm when the tractor lops one off.
Actually, if a person does actually and completely "believe" that it is possible to grow that third arm--and if he can change that belief on that deep, inner level---then a third arm would grow...and science would have one more mystery to solve; organized religions will organize their pilgrimages and praise their lords; and still others will smile and bowl the next ball, carefully wiping the oil off their hands from that delicious French Fry they just placed in their mouths...

6. Mira asks: What's the point of coming into a body as a fetus if your mother-to-be is just going to be killed? In other words, can one work out any karma in the womb? Please answer.

Barrie Responds:
I'd like to answer you, altho I'm not quite sure of your question. I'm not sure if the fetus in question was killed with the mother; if the fetus survived the accident and was born; or if the fetus was born to the mother and some time afterwards, the mother was killed in the accident.
In any case, tho, all fetus' choose to come into the body knowing full-well beforehand, from the "before life" perspective which exists outside of our time and space, what may happen to them. The fetus may alter these "pre-birth" choices at any time, along with the agreements of all involved in the event, using the free will all living creatures possess.
A fetus killed in a car crash or born to a mom killed in car crash, knew it would be...and wanted to come into existence just for that short time or in order to experience whatever event did occur. If not, the fetus and those involved would not have actualized the event.
The accident could have been agreed to for a wide variety of reasons. Perhaps to spur on others now living who they knew in a past life; spur them on by giving them spiritual and/or questions to mull over and think about concerning life, death, etc.
Death is not a "punishment" for some "karma" handed down by someone or something. Karma does not exist in that manner at all. Death is simply a transference of energy into a form that we humans cannot physically perceive. There is no end of personality; or ceasing of communication.
A fetus "killed" after a car crash is as alive as you or me right now...as is any so-called "dead" person. Even aborted fetuses choose to exist for their short time in the bodies of those they met beforehand in the dream state...agreeing that an abortion will be performed. Again, these types of fetus and infant deaths usually help to remind the "living adults left behind" of spiritual things they may have forgotten; or help them to get back on track in some other manner.
The fetus itself may have many reasons for "living" so shortly this time around...and it in no way affects his/her "rebirth" in another body any time later.

7. Melanie asks: "What writer said that an object under observation changes its natural state of existence? Did Jane or Seth write anything about that?"

Barrie Responds:
Seth did speak on that. Its not simply that an object changes under observation...but a bit more. The actual object is create anew each microsecond by your own thoughts. If 5 people walk into a room with a chair in it. 5 people are actually walking into 5 rooms with 5 chairs in it. Each person creates his/her room & chair. There is enough similarities in the 5 creations so that there is no major conflict of conscious, physical reality. But this does explain why some people "remember" colors differently, for example. The reason is that their chair actually had a different color than the other person's chair.
Physical reality is formed from the substance of thought. Thought has form in the invisible realms...we all (individually & en-masse) conjure up phyiscal reality ever microsecond...from the universe & its stars to some dust in the corner.
As we live our daily lives--we "blink" in out of this "inner" universe every secondless-second. So, we actually spend half our "time" in the inner realm--not counting sleep, OOBs, etc. As physicists have found that atoms "blink" in and out; they will find one day that we, too, blink in and out--so quickly we don't yet notice.
Following are some Seth excerpts on atoms blinking in and out of physical reality:
June 20, 1970
Atoms and molecules exist so that they are�inactive within your system, then alive or active, but you cannot perceive the instant in which they do not exist. Since your entire bodies and your entire physical universe are composed of atoms and molecules, then�the entire structure exists in the same manner. It flickers off and on, in other words, and in a certain rhythm, as, say, the rhythm of breath.
Feb. 17, 1971
The nature of matter itself is not understood. You perceive it at a certain "stage." Using your terms now and speaking as simply as possible, there are other forms of matter beyond those you see�Atoms and molecules�are only present within your universe during certain stages. Their activity is perceived only during the range of particular vibratory rhythms. When your scientists examine them for example, they do not examine the nature, say, of an atom. They only explore the characteristics of an atom as it acts or shows itself within your system. Its greater reality completely escapes them.
You understand spectrums of light. So are there spectrums of matter. Your system of physical reality is not dense in comparison with some others. The dimensions that you give to physical matter barely begin to hint at the varieties of dimensions possible�
In one way, an atom could be compared to a microsecond. It seems as if an atom "exists" steadily for a certain amount of time. Instead it phases in and out, so to speak. It fluctuates in a highly predicable pattern and rhythm. It can be perceived within your system only at certain points in this fluctuation, so it seems to scientists that the atom is steadily present. They are not aware of any gaps of absence as far as the atom is concerned.
In those periods of nonphysical projection, the off periods of fluctuation, the atoms "appear" in another system of reality. In that system, they are perceived in what are "on" points of fluctuation, and in that system also then the atoms (seems to) appear steadily. There are many such points of fluctuation, but your system of course is not aware of them, nor of the ultimate actions, universes, and systems that exist within them.
Feb. 20, 1974
At no time, as a rule, is your body not here to you. Your experience seems centered within it, with the rest of the world safely outside. However, the particular selectivity of your kind of consciousness rides over lapses that you do not recognize. In a manner of speaking, your bodies blink off and on like lights. Their reality fluctuates, from your standpoint. For that matter, so does the physical universe.
You can understand what is meant by saying that your consciousness fluctuates--for each individual is aware of various intensities and concentrations. You are more alert, or, in your terms, more conscious on some occasions than others. Now the same applies to these units of consciousness--and to atoms, molecules, electrons, and other such phenomena. The world literally blinks off and on. This reality of fluctuation in no way bothers your own feeling of consistency, however. The "holes of nonexistence" are plugged up by the process of selectivity�
It is impossible for you to examine an atom, a cell, or anything else except in your now. Period. Because your sense experience follows a time pattern that you can understand, then you take it for granted that a cell, for example, is the result of its past, and that its present condition arises from the past�.From your viewpoint, however, an examination of a cell will not show you that, but only its present condition.
Well, its me again, Barrie. That's it for now. I hope this has helped you.

8. Melanie asks: "How do you suggest we adjust our focus so as to not feel hurt, but rather just feel LOVE?"

Barrie Responds:
I'm not sure what you mean by "focus" in this instance...but the reality you find yourself in is created by you via your belief system. If deep down inside you strongly believe that "it's not easy," then no surface attempt to tell yourself "it is easy" will work. You then have conflicting beliefs and the stronger belief will "win out."
Perhaps by going into further beliefs about why you believe "it's not easy" you will come upon some beliefs you will be able to easily dismantle & replace with the belief(s) you like better & which you also "feel" are true.
Focus, as I understand it, is what keeps us seeing only certain aspects of reality. For example, we are focused on physical reality so we don't see the dream worlds, probable realities, other time periods & lifetimes, etc...In order not to see all these worlds simultaneously (which would be quite confusing) we "focus" on one at a time (generally speaking)...which makes our lives a little simpler-seeming.

9. Elaine asks me (on the Grievers and Believers Message Board): "In summary it would appear that the consciousness 'knows all'. If such is the case, why do we choose to do the human gig over and over and over? It would seem preferable to rest on our laurels in the perfect knowledge. I hope my question makes sense."
Barrie Responds:
You make perfect sense, but who would want to rest her laurels when there is so much fun to be had. All consciousness seeks to create & experience. Our "oversouls" (of which we are a part--and from which we send out our various incarnations in different time periods) continue to create & experience--and one way to do this is to send forth physical forms.
Thru these forms the oversoul experiences new (or from a new perspective as well) emotions, feelings, creations--if not, no physical form would be created.
The physical form is the soul couched in flesh--and both the flesh & soul are "holy"; and there is an inter-action of shared learning occurring.
Somehow, our physical experiences enrich the "worlds" of our oversouls; and thru our experiences & learnings & joys & pains & loves--the oversoul's consciousness grows.
And, of course, thru our inner journeys and "visits" with the inner guides & oversouls--our physical, waking consciousness learns & grows.
I imagine that there is some fascinating and fun things gained thru the physical experience that is not gained as well anywhere or any-dimension else.
Remember, too, the physical experience is intricately connected to all inner, spiritual experiences--an offshoot from those inner experiences, if you will. The ego serves as a guide, in a way, for the oversoul, as the body journeys thru physical life in its In-Body Experience.
In the same manner, the oversoul or other spiritual beings serve as guides for the physical form. There is an interchange of information flowing in both directions.
The human "gig" is not lived over & over again; all the "gigs" occur simultaneously--and each one is remarkably and amazingly unique and different. Life, even hundreds of lives, is not simply banging the same head against the same wall for eternity. But to use that metaphor, there would be as many types of "walls" as there would be sways of leaves in a breeze in Eden; and many of these "walls" would bring bliss to the heads that "bang" thru them--with musical splinters of rainbows flying into the air teaching birds to sing and painters to paint.
Also, there is no "perfect" knowledge or state or dwelling place of souls lounging about in perfect knowledge.
Things are always changing & developing. Seth says, "Perfection is a state of becoming. You are perfect right now with all your imperfections."
We do not climb a ladder out of the ignorant depths of physical human life, up into some perfect realm of bliss. The ladder is horizontal, resting in both planes, and we already have our feet on wrungs in both realms simultaneously. The state of "perfect knowledge" is the joyful dance we do.

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