Spellcasting in the Pulpit

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In our earlier article, 'Shamanism in the Pulpit', we examined the teaching and practice of New Zealand 'healing evangelist' Bill Subritzky for marks of a 'shamanistic' approach, and concluded that there were some elements which suggested such an influence had reached as far as the New Zealand church (true shamanism is unknown in the Pacific, so the source had to be Asia or, more likely, America). We will now look at features of magical approaches to life and again draw on Bill Subritzky for examples. We re-emphasise our reasons for concentrating on this man; he is the example of such practices with whom we are most familiar, his personal integrity is not in question to cloud the issue of his doctrinal soundness, and we, as fellow New Zealanders, have a sense of obligation to warn of the consequences of his teaching.

Referring to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, we read that 'All magic . . . has four recurring elements: performance of rituals or prescribed formal symbolic gestures, use of material substances and objects that have symbolic significance, utterance of a closely prescribed spell or of a less formal address, and a prescribed condition of the performer' (15th edition, Vol 25 p 93, article 'Occultism'). Magic is used when technical knowledge is missing or uncertain. It cannot be tested scientifically in its own terms because it has symbolic or psychological value beyond its technical value (ibid, p 91). Especially interesting for our purposes are the remarks on the magical practices of the Azande people of Africa regarding their coherence as a belief system: 'The Azande . . . attribute virtually all their misfortunes to witchcraft and sorcery, and their conceptions of these entirely or largely imagined activities - along with beliefs in the general efficacy of their divinatory techniques - provide them with an explanatory frame of reference. Such a frame of reference removes uncertainties and prescribes steps for the management of tensions, steps that, though to the modern Western mind unrelated to the causes of their misfortunes, are nevertheless of psychological value to the believer and tend to reinforce and harmonise the circular belief system. For example, someone falls ill or has an accident; the poison oracle points to the witch responsible and is confirmed by superior oracles; the alleged witch is induced to withdraw his witchcraft; the patient gets better - as most patients do anyway. If he should not, however, the predictive failure of the oracle is easily explained away by the secondary elaborations that tend to develop as supports to the basic belief in divination; for example, the oracle poison was of the wrong kind, or stale, or the oracle was upset by someone's use of witchcraft.

'Michael Polanyi, a contemporary. . . philosopher [and a Christian], has analysed Zande beliefs relating to witchcraft and found them to be characterised by the circularity just described, by what he calls "epicyclical elaboration" (i.e., secondary beliefs that explain away predictive failure) and by what he terms "suppressed nucleation" (i.e., objections to the theory that explains misfortunes in terms of witchcraft are met and explained away one by one, so that they can never cluster into a rival explanatory system that can displace the belief in witchcraft)' (ibid, p 94; the analysis of Azande beliefs is found in Michael Polanyi, The Stability of Beliefs in The British Journal for the Philosophy of Science, Vol III, No 11, November 1952). [See also 'Minds and Mindedness' in Symposium 3A.]

Let us examine parallels in the practice of Bill Subritzky and others.

From Demons Defeated, chapter seventeen, 'Methods of Deliverance' (the numbered headings are Subritzky's):

'There are various ways in which demons can be cast out of people. Either as a single method or as a combination of methods, I have found the following ways to be effective in my own ministry . . .

1. I have used my prayer language

. . . This, when spoken with full belief, will often provoke major manifestations on the part of the demons . . .

2. Use of the Word of God

It is good to quote scriptures with belief to those who are subject to demon power. . . .

3. Confession of Sins

. . . I find this particularly effective as I anoint with oil and speak slowly the words, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." As I believe and say these words with all my heart, the demons will scream and leave the person.

4. Praise God

. . . I will often ask the person being delivered to simply say the words, "Praise God". They may say it up to fifty times before the demons scream and say they won't praise God. . . .

5. Commanding with authority

. . . A simple command to a demon to "Go" will always be effective when the demon knows that you are aware that you are acting under God's authority through Jesus Christ. You do not need to use lengthy phrases to command demons to leave but can simply command them to leave, and if we do so with authority they will begin to leave.

6. Repentance and Confessions

. . . I am, however, convinced that although we can spend much time speaking to and commanding many demons to leave a person, the final key is repentance. . . .

7. Curses and Sins of the Ancestors

. . . This is part of the curse of the law from which we were delivered through the cross of Jesus Christ. . . . I realise that there are various interpretations of the authority given by Jesus Christ to His disciples on the Sunday night of his resurrection concerning the forgiveness of sins: "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." (John 20:23). . . . Many people still hold on to the sins of their forefathers including their parents and take them into themselves thus binding themselves with those sins. When we are born again of the Spirit of God, then we have the same authority. . . . Accordingly, I encourage people to repent for and forgive their ancestors, and as they exercise this forgiveness through the authority given by Jesus Christ, the demons go. . . . So much of these spiritual forces can come down through the seed. I often make the sign of the cross in front of the person. I do this by asking them to place their hand upon their navel and then make the sign of the cross over that area of their body. As we invoke the blood of Jesus Christ and cut off the spiritual powers which have come down through the umbilical cord, then with true forgiveness in the heart of the person, there can be real deliverance from the sins of the ancestors. . . . [Subritzky has also said earlier in the book, p 37, that 'Sometimes curses are placed by people who are operating in the demonic realm. Gypsies and others have always exercised powers of cursing. Similarly, many native cultures do the same thing.']

8. Know the anointing of the Holy Spirit

. . . I usually ask Jesus to pour down His anointing by the Holy Spirit and when I sense it falling I command the demon to go. Sometimes, when it is a particularly stubborn demon I call for a further portion of the anointing and as it falls I say to the demon, "Feel that anointing, demon." It invariably trembles and goes. . . . We can often feel that anointing pouring right down through ourselves, particularly through our arms, and as we lay hands on the person the anointing touches them and the demons begin to flee. . . . In renouncing particular sins, it is useful for the person to use their full name, such as, "I, James Peter Bond renounce in Jesus' name the sin of witchcraft. . . .' There seems to be some additional power involved when the person themselves, by using their full name, causes the spirit to go.

9. Water baptism

If the person has not undergone water baptism at some stage in their life, then this is a powerful way of cutting off the old man and the demon powers and we should ensure that, after proper tuition such persons can expect deliverance in water baptism.

10. Baptism in the Holy Spirit

If there is one thing to which the demons object, it is the person surrendering their tongue to the Holy Spirit and receiving a Holy Spirit tongue. This is part of the infilling process of the Holy Spirit and allows Him to occupy the temple of the Holy Spirit in its entirety. Sometimes demons will sit on the person's tongue and give what appears to be a Holy Spirit language whereas it is in fact a demonic language. We need to be able to discern this. . . .

11. Listening to the Holy Spirit

As we grow in faith, in the word of knowledge and word of wisdom we can hear the Holy Spirit directing us as to how we should pray. When I am praying, I find that the Holy Spirit specifically directs me as to how I should pray. Sometimes He tells me to command the demon to leave in His name, and at the same time directs how I should place my hands on the person's body. . . . Usually you will find that if you are directed to such a position on the person's body that they often have pain attached to that part of the body and they receive deliverance as the demon goes. . . . Sometimes when we are ministering, a demon will seek to attack us. . . . When we stand firm on the Word of God and know the protection of His blood and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, the demon realises that it cannot enter us. . . .

12. Minister self acceptance

One of the entry points for demon activity is the failure of people to accept themselves. . . . God accepted us while we were still sinners by allowing Jesus to die on the cross for us and therefore people should realise and be taught that God accepts them. This is a great release point for many people. . . .

13. Fasting

If fasting is done for the right motives it brings us into a new spiritual dimension. I often commend fasting on the part of the person who is seeking deliverance and counsel them in the area of repentance. Fasting seems to bring our spirit alive and open our spirit to the power of the Holy Spirit. On occasions, the person ministering should also fast, particularly in a difficult case, as this will stir the power of the Holy Spirit within him. . . .

14. Breathing

I often commend [sic] people to inhale sharply and believe they are breathing in the Holy Spirit and then breathe out, or expel the demon power within them. The Holy Spirit often indicates to me that the demon power is coming out of their stomach up into their chest and into their throat, and then out of the mouth. Sometimes I see this manifested in my spirit as a fish or a serpent coming out of the person's mouth, first the head, then the stomach, and finally the tail. This technique of course is perfectly scriptural for Jesus Christ said in Mark's Gospel these words. ". . . In my name they will cast out (expel) demons;" (Mark 16:17) [Subritzky's ellipsis and explanatory parenthesis.] . . . . On one occasion, a person challenged me as to the validity of this form of deliverance. The next night at one of the meetings the same person began to manifest a spirit in front of me. She began to breathe in sharply and breathe out on an involuntary basis and a powerful demon manifested itself as though it had been the demon of unbelief which had been questioning me the night before as to this form of deliverance.

We must be careful not to categorise or fall into standard methods of deliverance. . . . We must be open to a combination of methods of deliverance, but I do find that the breathing technique is an excellent one on many occasions. [Subritzky also says earlier, p 146, 'Quite frequently I have found that the demons are in the saliva and the Holy Spirit encourages me to have people spit them out.']

15. Blocking entry point

The navel is often an entry point for demon powers which have come down through the umbilical cord before birth, or at birth. Demons have told me that they have entered through the seed of the male into the female and then down through the umbilical cord to the person to whom I am ministering. . . .

16. Agreement

A powerful method of deliverance is for the parties praying to agree for that deliverance. . . . I stress that there must be complete agreement in the spirit before deliverance will be accomplished in this way.

17. Use of water

On various occasions I have found that when water is blessed and then applied to the person seeking deliverance, there can be real release from demon power. On such occasions I have reminded the demon that the person has been water baptised. The use of water in this way reminds the person that during their baptism they were cut off from the power of sin in their life. As this is acknowledged the demon power flees.

18. Cleansing of houses

. . . As we use scriptures and plead the blood of Jesus over every room, the demon powers will flee. On some occasions, I have found that the Holy Spirit has directed me to place my hands on each corner of the house, particularly near the foundations. . . .

19. Finding the leader of the pack

With the help of the Holy Spirit we need to seek out the leader of the demon powers within a person. . . . We must seek the gift of discernment in this area.

20. Laying on of hands

It is absolutely scriptural to lay hands on people during the course of deliverance. Jesus did so. In Luke 4:29 we see that Jesus "rebuked the fever". He thus dealt with the fever as a demon. . . .

21. Prayer by the person being delivered calling on Jesus to help them

The following simple prayer can be extremely effective, if it is believed in the heart. . . .

22. Pleading the blood of Jesus Christ

As we know there is great power in the blood of Jesus Christ. During deliverance sessions I often encourage people to repeat what are known as the blood scriptures set out in Appendix 2. As they repeat them one at a time with belief, demon power will often manifest. The demon hates the person to confess the word of God. . . . It is the confession through their mouth and belief in their heart which sets them free and drives the demon power out. I strongly commend the use of these scriptures . . . during all deliverance sessions.

23. Assertion of the person's will

. . . As they exercise their will in conjunction with the Holy Spirit within them then the demon power will begin to lose its hold and finally leave. We have previously quoted the scriptural basis for this, namely. "You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

24. Angels of Protection

. . . I well remember on one occasion when a person to whom I was ministering was manifesting violently in my study. Suddenly, he turned towards the window and pointed to the outside of my property and the demon began to scream in a loud voice, "They are everywhere, they are everywhere!" I thought at that time that he was referring to other demons near our house. . . . Some days later the Lord reminded me of the incident and told me that they were angels of protection surrounding my house.'

Let us quickly analyse the magical elements in all of this.

Rituals and Objects

Clearly, such traditional exorcism tools as holy water fall into the category of 'magical objects' in a broad sense at least. Rites, such as water baptism or anointing with oil, also have magical significance, although to Subritzky's credit he maintains the meaning of the symbolism of the former (the decisive break with the old life). This does not make the actual use of it less magical, however. The repetition of certain words such as 'praise God' or words of Scripture (although a preference is expressed for the 'blood Scriptures', any Scripture will apparently do: 'I can take any verse from the Word of God - any verse - and speak it to someone who has a demon-problem and, as the demon manifests, it will invariably say, "I don't want to hear it. . . .' (Receiving the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, rev edn, Dove, 1985, p 78 [emphasis Subritzky's]), or of 'in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit' (said slowly while anointing with oil) corresponds to the spell or incantation; the meaning of the words is given less emphasis than the necessity for total belief and for speaking the words. In fact, the use of a 'prayer language' is encouraged; here, the meaning of the words is not known at all. ('Prayer language' is an unbiblical term referring to Subritzky's supposed 'tongue', which, if it is like most charismatic 'tongues', is no more a real language than it is instructions for assembling a spaceship - according to linguistic analysis and the writers' personal experience, as set out below.)

Note the brief scripturally justifiable section in 5, which is in contrast to the impression given by the rest of the chapter and indeed the rest of the book in its assertion that deliverance is straightforward and instantaneous and requires no technique.

The view of curses in 7 (which derives largely from the teaching of Derek Prince) is a magical one; these things are supposed to have real power, even over believers. Many missionaries can testify to the contrary after encounters with witch doctors. While admitting that there are differing interpretations of the authority to forgive or retain sins (that is, differing from his interpretation, which he proceeds to give us), Subritzky does not attempt to outline these in order to do justice to them; he simply gives his scripturally insupportable version, which reminds us of Mormons being baptised for their ancestors. (Further comparisons of Subritzky and Mormons later.) He tries to justify his idea of confessing the sins of one's ancestors by reference to the prayers of Nehemiah and Daniel, which in fact confessed the sins of their nation and the preceding generations rather than of Nehemiah's or Daniel's ancestors specifically.

In the course of dealing with renunciation of occult involvement and witchcraft (8), Subritzky employs one of the hoariest chestnuts in the whole hocus-pocus collection: name magic, using the full name as if it had some mysterious power. Irony upon irony! He also seems to place importance on discovering the names of demons and casting them out by name; they have names like smoking, cancer, breathing problems, suicide, self-importance, wretchedness, filthy language, nightmlares etc (see, for example, chapter four of Demons Defeated, Dove, 1985), in accordance with Subritzky's belief that 'all forms of sickness, particularly those of longstanding origin' (Demons, p 37) can be demonic and that 'behind every sin there is a spirit from Satan'(Demons, p 171.) The latter teaching is, again, from his 'personal experience'; we do not see any of this even hinted at in Scripture. In our view, it only encourages Christians not to take responsibility for their sin.

Self-acceptance (12), while not a magical feature, is a feature of the teachings of the 'positive confession' movement; see further discussion below and more detailed treatment in Dave Hunt's Beyond Seduction.

Fasting (13) is a mystical technique world-wide; the physiological changes in fasting assist, for those so inclined, contact with the numinous (Mike, who suffers from functional hypoglycaemia, finds that it simply gives him a headache). It can, of course, be a symbol of devotion to and dependence upon God, but one without any mysterious power.

Sections 14 and 15 are perhaps the most ridiculous use of quasi-magical symbology in this whole omelette of scripturally unjustifiable practices. The breathing and spitting techniques are, as anyone who works from a Scripture to a teaching and not vice versa can tell, not even remotely taught in Mark 16:17. We would also be very wary of taking a demon's word for anything, especially when expressed in such terms as the revelation given in 15, which strongly recalls Eastern mystical approaches fancied up with basic Western medical understanding.

Going through the 'occult check sheet' provided by Subritzky in Appendix 1 of Demons Defeated, we would contend that at least the following items could be convincingly claimed as being characteristic of Bill Subritzky's own ministry: magic, white magic (invoking hidden powers for good ends), hypnosis, mental suggestion, self-hypnosis [through such things as repeating 'Praise God' or repeating Scriptures after Bill Subritzky], disembodied voices, clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience. 'But the voices Bill hears are from God!', his supporters will protest. See discussion below under 'The Meaning of Experience'.

Graham Blaikie, in his booklet The Theology and Ministry of Bill Subritzky, quotes charismatic Kurt Koch's books on the occult, where this man who has dealt with many cases of demonisation himself refers both to 'religious suggestion' (in other words, a form of hypnotism, which Subritzky, ironically, condemns) and mediumistic healing abilities as lying behind some faith healers' success (Graham Blaikie, The Theology and Ministry of Bill Subritzky, Christian Research Projects, 1986, p 49; citing Kurt Koch, Demonology Past and Present, Kregel, 1973, p 112, and Occult Bondage and Deliverance, Kregel, 1971, pp 42-57). While it would be exceeding the evidence available to us to level the latter accusation at Bill Subritzky, certainly American 'healing evangelists' who sell 'blessed' handkerchiefs or suggest sitting a glass of water on your TV during their programme and then drinking it to obtain healing are guilty of occult practices.

Condition of the performer (and patient)

The alert reader will have noted a number of references to the necessity for faith in all of the above; not always biblically defined faith, that is, trust in God, but belief without question, often without evidence or reason. Bill Subritzky does not overtly teach the 'faith in faith' or 'positive confession' doctrines of Kenneth Hagin and others, though he exhibits some signs of the 'positive confession' movement's view of 'faith' as 'a force just like electricity or gravity' (Kenneth Copeland, quoted in Hunt, Beyond Seduction, p 52), which is released by speaking words; as Hagin says, 'God had faith in his own words . . . God had faith in His faith, because He spoke words of faith and they came to pass' (Kenneth Hagin, Having Faith in Your Faith (Rhema, 1980), cited in Hunt, p 52; Hunt spends several chapters biblically debunking this movement in Beyond Seduction). We repeat; Bill Subritzky's teachings are not in this class as regards heresy. This is far more insidious than anything he is teaching explicitly. However, the influence is there: 'When we ask for these gifts in faith, nothing wavering, God will always grant our request' (Receiving, p 38. His Scripture reference is to James 1:5-7, and his justification for using it is the identification of the gift of the 'word of wisdom' with the wisdom to which James refers. This is a dubious identification, and certainly not one which can be extended to the other gifts.) 'If we believe implicitly that - . . . [Subritzky's ellipsis] they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (Mark 16:18), their recovery starts immediately. This is an act of faith, even though nothing may appear to happen at that time. . . . If we begin to verbalise wrong attitudes and thoughts, then we receive those attitudes and thoughts because our ears hear what our mouth speaks out. This is a faith destroyer' (Receiving, pp 52-53). 'As Jesus has given us His authority, we can command healings and deliverance in His name, acting in faith. But it has been the Word illuminated to us, the rhema, which has given us the faith in which to operate. . . . We pray in accordance with the Word, we believe the Word, we do not doubt the Word. Then it works' (Receiving, pp 56-57). 'With total belief in my heart, I recall the promises of God and. . . I can then believe for God's Spirit to touch that person. As I said earlier, the sick person must believe that God has touched him and must begin to praise Him for the healing, although there may be no immediate evidence in his body' (Receiving, p 65). '[God] can give us an impression or a thought or a vision or we can hear His direct audible voice and as we trust God and believe it is Him then others in the body of Christ will discern that indeed we are speaking a word from the Lord' (Receiving, p 71 - see 'Discernment'). 'Sometimes there is no manifestation whatsoever because the spirit goes quietly, and whichever way it occurs we are to have faith to believe it is taking place. We must not be disappointed if there is no physical sign of deliverance. . . . However, we must always have a witness in our spirit that they have in fact left, otherwise we can be deceived' (Demons, p 143).

Remarking on the passage quoted above ('If we believe implicitly that- . . . they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (Mark 16:18), their recovery starts immediately. This is an act of faith, even though nothing may appear to happen at that time'), and the further statement 'I believe that every person for whom I pray and upon whom I lay hands begins to heal immediately. If it hasn't already started, the healing begins then. There are no exceptions; it is a scriptural method for being healed to lay hands on the sick and to believe for their healing. And I believe that healing starts immediately' (Receiving, p 60), Blaikie notes 'the small addendum that Mr Subritzky joins to Mark 16:18: "lay hands on the sick" "AND to believe for their healing". [Emphasis Blaikie's.] So another condition is added: total belief. There are other conditions, too, which enable Mr Subritzky to explain away healings that just don't work, that are "blocked". God's healing power, he says, "may be blocked by sin or unforgiveness on the part of the person"' (Theology, p 42; the last quotation is from Receiving, p 54).

We would indicate the man healed at the pool of Bethesda as a counter-example to the 'blockage' by sin (John 5:14); in fact, as none of the people Jesus healed were New Testament post-Calvary saints (obviously), it is clear that sin was no blockage to him at all. The only time unbelief is possibly mentioned as a hindrance is in Mark 6:4-6; even here, Jesus was able to heal some, and there are explanations other than the assumption that the healings were 'blocked' (for instance, that only a few sick people were brought to him because the people did not believe in his power to help them). Blaikie provides an appendix in which he shows that only one in three of Jesus' healings appeared to have faith as a condition; although he is not consistent regarding whose faith (that of the person or of their friends or family, for example), his basic point, that faith is not an invariable precondition, is a valid one.

Blaikie's analysis continues, beginning by quoting a letter by his friend John Snodgrass to Bill Subritzky: '"If someone begins to be healed then there must be at least some minimal improvement in their condition. If there is no improvement there is clearly no measure of healing at all, so everyone you pray for must experience some initial improvement in their condition. Yet I know of more than one instance where those you have prayed for have experienced no improvement months and even years after." . . . . Mr Subritzky has caused considerable anguish to many sincere believers whom, it appears, God has not desired to heal for His own reasons - perhaps to teach them total trust and reliance on Him, or strength of character. And when they have not been healed, Mr Subritzky has unwittingly placed the blame on them. They have lacked faith, or are possessed by a spirit of unbelief [not in fact Subritzky's phraseology, to be fair], or are sinning too much. Or the healing has started and isn't verifiable yet. This writer [Blaikie] knows of some people whose spiritual growth has been retarded in this way.

'If mustering incredible faith is the key, perhaps it is more legitimate to hold the healer responsible. . . . Presumably the same holds true for sin, too. If the person with the ailment can stop a healing through unbelief, sin or unforgiveness, then why not the healer. . . ? . . . So although there are "no exceptions" according to Mr Subritzky, and "everyone" on whom he lays hands begins to be healed "immediately" according to this "scriptural method", the reality is a bit different. . . . it is interesting to note as an aside, that Mr Subritzky, himself, wears reading glasses - even in his healing meetings. Apparently he lacks faith in this particular area of healing, or God is "blocked" by a sin in his life. Or the healing started many years ago and is not complete or verifiable yet. . . .

'The healings and deliverances we see in the New Testament are instantaneous, dramatic and verifiable. . . . the actuality is that the vast majority [of those Subritzky prays for] do not receive instantaneous healing (or deliverance) of the New Testament type. Even Mr Subritzky recognises this. . . . "We live in an age of 'instant tea, instant coffee' and people want 'instant deliverance and healing'. Sometimes this is accomplished but on most occasions we must hold on to that part of the land which we have taken from the enemy and consolidate our position". [The quotation is from Demons, p 220.] . . . So people must return and return for more prayer or more deliverance, wondering if they have enough faith, hunting introspectively for sin, and possibly even doubting the Lord's goodness. The psychological and spiritual bondage is compounded' (Theology, pp 44, 47-51).

This is surely the 'circularity' and 'epicyclical elaboration' referred to above. Any objections to Bill Subritzky's ideas or practices, especially on the spot in one of his meetings, can be dismissed as coming from the demonic realm. Any failures can be attributed to sin or unbelief on the part of the person seeking to be healed. In fact, the system cannot be falsified.

The Meaning of Experience

There is a phrase which is sometimes quoted about such cases: 'The person with an argument is at the mercy of the person with an experience.' We agree broadly with what we take to be the thought behind this, but disagree with its phraseology, preferring to say that 'You cannot reason someone out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.'

To draw again from Blaikie's booklet, he quotes from a letter of Bill Subritzky to John Snodgrass concerning their theological differences on Spirit-baptism and tongues-speaking: "Can I simply say to you that the simplest way through all of this situation is for you to consider receiving this full experience, and then it will answer all your questions. This has been my experience hundreds of times, namely, where people have had questions, I have respectfully suggested to them that they get before the Lord and ask Him to baptise them with the Holy Spirit and give them the gift of tongues. I have found there are no more questions after people come into this experience" (Theology, p 25). Again, dealing with the 'fragrance of the Holy Spirit', which he claims to smell in his meetings, Subritzky was unable to defend this scripturally (apart from some out-of-context use of 2 Corinthians 2:15, which refers metaphorically to believers as a fragrance to God, not vice versa, and Psalm 45:8, which refers to the Davidic King as a type of Christ, not of the Holy Spirit), and finally comes down to saying, "I cannot take the matter any further excepting to humbly suggest that you, yourself consider opening yourself to this particular experience, and allowing the Holy Spirit to manifest Himself to you in this way" (ibid, p 31).

We were at high school together, and near the school we attended is a large Mormon church; so, naturally, we met several Mormons at school, who witnessed to us as enthusiastically as only they can. This was also their final and main argument; pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you, they said, and to witness to your heart that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has the truth.

Our point is not that Bill Subritzky is a crypto-Mormon, but that he has no stronger, better, or more reliable argument for his positions than the Mormons have for theirs. An experience is not truth. It is an experience. An experience cannot be placed alongside, much less above, Scripture soundly interpreted. Your experience, our experience, our Mormon friends' experiences, and Bill Subritzky's experience are all 'real' to each of us respectively; but the interpretation of those experiences is another question.

Mike, for instance, was converted into a church which was strongly under the influence of Bill Subritzky and other similar teachers. The first Christian book he was given to read was Dennis and Rita Bennett's The Holy Spirit and You (Kingsway, 1974), so that before he had read the Book of Acts he had been given an interpretation of it. He was 'baptised in the Holy Spirit' and began 'speaking in tongues' on the third night after his conversion. (Bruce, who was also present, was 'unable to receive the gift' then because of a 'blockage' through his conservative Brethren background, but later did so after further prayer.) At this time, Mike was on a 'high' for two days, with a pleasurable sensation in his chest, and felt as if he was light enough to blow away with a gust of wind. He has since felt a milder version of this sensation a number of times, and no longer attaches any special significance to the feeling; he felt it, for instance, while writing part of the critique of Bill Subritzky above.

He was given a follow-up course to do, which contained an error promoted by Kenneth Hagin, Bill Subritzky (Receiving, p 69) and others: that 3 John 2 teaches that God's will is healing for everyone. (Even as a very new Christian, he had enough grasp of common sense and context to see that for John to write to Gaius, 'Dear friend, I pray [the word is actually more like 'wish'] that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well' proved nothing of the kind.) He remained a charismatic for about two years, and the copy of Demons Defeated which has been used in the above research was bought, and believed, during this time. It was, in fact, the publication of Graham Blaikie's Bill Subritzky booklet in September 1987 which helped to precipitate the change. He objected to the anti-charismatic theological assertions, and debated Blaikie and John Snodgrass on the issue. Rather than simply assert his experience, however, he realised that answers were to be searched for in Scripture, and, following the debate, set out to study the charismatic 'proof texts' for himself, intending to prove Blaikie wrong. It was a 'book that refused to be written'. He discovered, to his surprise and discomfort and after considerable searching of the Scriptures with the aid of an interlinear New Testament, that what he had been taught from the very earliest days of his Christian life could not be reliably established if one began with Scripture instead of experience. Note that he did not do this at Blaikie's urging or even with his knowledge; he did it independently with the aim of confirming his existing beliefs, but in a frame of mind which was open to the evidence pointing in a different direction. His trust in experience was less than his trust in Scripture.

He became increasingly uncomfortable with charismatic theology and disillusioned with the shallowness and jargon of the charismatic christian subculture. He ceased to 'speak in tongues' about 1988, as far as he can remember, considering that he never had received a genuine gift of a genuine language from God but had been practising a psychological self-deception. (In accordance with Bill Subritzky's teachings [for example, Receiving pp 3-4], he was 'taught' to pray in tongues and 'practised' until he became fluent, a pattern seen nowhere in the New Testament.) Finally, he left his charismatic church (not the one he had been converted into, but one not fundamentally dissimilar) to attend a conservative congregation. Bruce, meanwhile, had been an outnumbered charismatic in a conservative congregation all along; his embracing of charismatic practice, at least, was never as complete, and he too abandoned charismatic theology at about the same time.

Bill Subritzky would perhaps say that we picked up a 'spirit of doubt' in the Godless university environment and that this is why we changed our theology and ceased to pursue experiences of 'the things of the Spirit'. (Mike has a slightly deformed back, which has been prayed for several times- not by Bill Subritzky - without result, for example; he has also 'prophesied' in church on occasion, as far as he can remember without producing anything heretical but also without producing anything new either - he never departed very far from simply quoting or paraphrasing Scripture in his 'prophecies'.) But we would say that we now have more trust in the Scriptures than ever before. Faith is not gullibility, a willingness to accept anything that happens as being 'of God'; faith is trust in God as he really is, whether we find it convenient or pleasant or not. Bill Subritzky has one experience, we have another. The differences between them must be judged not on the basis of the experiences but on the basis of Scripture.