Barry O'Neill Interview with Hal Ketchum

2nd February 2007

Barry – You are you doing Hal?

Hal – Good Barry, how are you?

Barry – I’m not too bad at all. You’ve just recently brought out a new album called ‘One More Midnight’, can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Hal – Yeah, it’s a record that took a couple of years to record. I kind of took my time on this one, and it’s just been a real pleasure.

Barry – Do you think it’s easier now because you’re later on in your career to do things at your own pace?

Hal – Oh absolutely yeah, I don’t have much to prove any more. I’m just lucky, looking for good songs and having a great time, I always have a good time in the studio and the live shows are always a joy to me so I’m in a good place.

Barry – So do you think this is the best bit of your career now, rather than earlier on?

Hal – I think so yeah, because I’m not obsessed any more with my own behaviour, I just kind of show up and do the best job I possibly can, I don’t feel like I’m applying for the job any more!

Barry – Right, you feel you’ve well and truly got the job and you’re the boss now, and can do what you want?

Hal – Yes, which can be dangerous, but I’m also a lot more mellow than I was as a young man so it’s working out just fine.

BARRY PLAYS LITTLE RED DRESS

Barry – Now we’re playing one of your songs at the moment called ‘Just This Side of Heaven’, can you tell me how writing that came about?

Hal – Well actually that was written by my friend Doug Johnson, he brought it to me and it felt like a song that I would be very happy to have written. It’s just a really good piece. I think it’s a universal kind of feeling, it’s really just about a guy, he’s driving home and he just can’t wait to get home, that’s a wonderful place to be, to be at a point in your life where you just can’t wait to get back to the people that truly love you after a long day’s work.

Barry – And do you think that kind of reflects the point in your life you’re at at the moment?

Hal – Oh of course, yeah, I’ve decided to actually be present in my life, and enjoy the people that are my wife, my children and my friends, yeah, it definitely has a lot to do with my life.

BARRY PLAYS JUST THIS SIDE OF HEAVEN

Barry – You’ve had a long and illustrious career, what do you think were the high points of it?

Hal – Well I think that every night on stage is a high point and I don’t say that lightly. I feel like I’m very privileged to do this for a living, so any night that I got a guitar in my hands is a good night. Another high point for me is I’ve been a member of the Grand Ole Opry here in Nashville. I’m now coming up on my 12th anniversary on 22 January as a member of the Opry, that definitely for me is a highlight.

Barry – That’s interesting because I recently read an article and someone is actually suing the Grand Ole Opry, (Stonewall Jackson), because they said that they were discriminating against their age because they were an older country music star, a lot older than yourself, but do you think that does happen in the Grand Ole Opry, do you think the market’s more interested in the young acts now?

Hal – I think there’s actually kind of a reverse of that, I think that there was a period of time where that was very true, where some of the older members were feeling discriminated against, but I feel like that trend has kind of passed, there’s a lot of honour for the older members out there, maybe I feel that way because I’m becoming one of them. Also now when I look out at an Opry audience, whether it’s at the Ryman Auditorium or the Grand Ole Opry House, I’m seeing a lot of young people that are really turning toward this music. And the beauty of technology of the age we live in is that they can go back and research Johnny Cash or Porter Waggoner or Dolly Parton or any number of artists they they’re exposed to, maybe only once, so I think there’s been a real resurgence here in the past couple of years.

Barry – There does seem to be a kind of trend where guys like yourself are now almost idolised by the younger artists because obviously back in the day it was people like Johnny Cash that everybody idolised, but it’s now moved forward a generation so you’ve got people in their late teens and early twenties who listen to Hal Ketchum, or George Strait or Kenny Chesney or Tim McGraw music, they’ve become their idols, it’s come forward a generation, so that kind of mid-generation has become really popular again.

Hal – Oh I think so yeah, I think it’s a cyclical thing, I did it certainly when I was a young person with a strong interest in music. I started with Merle Haggard, he was the first guy that really, once I heard a Merle Haggard song, I had to hear all the Merle Haggard songs and so consequently, I think it’s real easy for young people to get on their computers and follow down and find out where people come from, find out what their musical roots were. A guy like Merle, he credits Lefty Frizzell with influencing him, so if somebody gets into Merle Haggard, then they can go back another step to Lefty Frizzell, all the way back to Jimmie Rodgers, so I think that people can research anybody they hear and get turned onto, I think that’s great.

BARRY PLAYS SAVE TONIGHT FOR ME

Barry – The title track to your new album ‘One More Midnight’, where did that song originate?

Hal – I actually wrote that song with a guy named Craig Wiseman, who’s a wonderful songwriter and it was our first experience of writing together. We just kind of got that groove going and started talking about the road and truck stops and that sort of became the theme of the song and I really like that piece, it works really well live too which is something that I gauge songs on, is how well they perform in front of real human beings, not only in the recording studio but how well they come across, and that song really works well in the set and I like travelling songs.

BARRY PLAYS ONE MORE MIDNIGHT

Barry – Your image has changed quite a lot over the years as well. I’m looking at the front cover to your new album, and you almost look like you have gone back to your roots, you are sitting there with a straw cowboy hat and sitting in the driver’s seat of a pick up truck.

Hal – It’s an old truck that I own, I’ve had this truck for years and it was made the same year I was born, it’s a 1953 GMC, it’s a big old one tonne truck and it’s an old friend of mine. Yeah, I guess I’ve returned Basically you take a guy back in the day, I was kind of pretty and sleek, you know, and kind of cut out and young, and now you take that same guy and you take a picture of him 25 years later with about 8 million miles on him and that’s kind of what you get. It’s truth in advertising as we say.

Barry – Ah but I mean that reflects there is something to be said for the experience of life, especially in songs, it’s something that can be revealed, it’s a good selling point.

Hal – You can’t buy it man, you gotta live it!

Barry – Exactly, cos you get a lot of these younger artists coming in, you kind of think to yourself, there’s no way you guys know anything about this you know?

Hal – Yeah, they’re still speculating, bless their hearts, they’ll get there if they live long enough, they’ll get to tell stories about all these things from their own experience, that’s what it takes man, you gotta start somewhere, you gotta speculate for a while until life gets up on you and then you can tell it from your own perspective.

BARRY PLAYS MY LOVE WILL NOT CHANGE

Barry – You’ve had a couple of songs covered, most recently ‘Evangeline’ was covered by the Del McCoury Band, you’ve had stuff covered by Neil Diamond and Trisha Yearwood, lots of other artists, which artists give you the most pleasure, when say Neil Diamond came to you and said you know Hal I want to cover one of your songs, what gave you the most pleasure?

Hal – Well they all do, I mean because really when a song was written you don’t know where it’s going to end up, it’s an amazing process, to write a song. Most of the outside cuts that I’ve gotten have just happened, it’s not because somebody pitched a song to a certain artist, right after it was written. A lot of these songs sort of lay around and then somebody happens to hear them, you know, fate leads them to a certain song. I’ve got a song by Maura O’Connell, a great singer, she cut a song called Ordinary Day that laid around for probably 5 or 6 years and she just happened to walk by somebody playing it and decided to sing it, and did a remarkable job. It’s reassuring to me, I realise that my job is to write the song, where it ends up is anybody’s business. I’m always thrilled with a cut. ‘Evangeline’ that Del McCoury just cut is actually a duet with Charlie Daniels. Charlie and I wrote that song about 4 years ago, and Charlie called me about 3 months ago, he sounded like he was 18 years old again. “Hal, I just cut our song” and I was like dude! What a great way to start your day, having Charlie Daniels calling you on the telephone and telling you that he and Del McCoury cut one of your songs, it’s a great feeling, mighty fine.

Barry – It’s all downhill from there, has to be a good lunch to make up for that!

BARRY PLAYS ORDINARY DAY

Barry - So you’re quite a fan of the UK, you’re over here touring quite a lot, you’re from New York originally aren’t you, do you think that being from one of the more metropolitan cities has made you more willing to travel, because there’s a lot of country artists in the South who stick to the South and that’s it. You’ve obviously been all over the world and you’re back and forward to Britain a lot. Is there a reason for that or is it just because you’re naturally a traveller?

Hal – Well, I am naturally a traveller, but also I cut a song called Past The Point of Rescue in 1993 which was written by Mick Hanly who lives in Kilkenny, Ireland and that sort of opened the door to me, I was always intrigued with England, Ireland and Scotland, that’s sort of where my ancestry is, and so I really was infatuated with your part of the world and when I started coming over, I got even more so. It became easy for me to find a way to come over at least once a year and I’ve also found that American artists that are willing to travel, get to really embrace an entirely new audience, it’s really come to a point where not only do I look forward to coming over but I see old friends now. The last time I played Shepherds Bush, gosh, a few years ago, I remember I opened a window up in the dressing room and people were queued up around the block singing ‘I Miss My Mary’, singing one of my songs, and that’s something that doesn’t happen all that often. I find too personally that European audiences are almost more of a collector’s mentality, they take you in, they research your work, there are people over there that know more about who played on my records than I do! It’s really very gratifying.

Barry – I think there is something to be said about that, for the British audience, I think it’s because country music is not as common over here, not as commonplace, so you have to kind of seek it out, and to seek it out, you have to be of the mentality to want to capture it and know everything about it and research it and all that sort of stuff.

BARRY PLAYS PAST THE POINT OF RESCUE

Barry – I just want to talk about another song on your album which I thought was a really good song, ‘Forever Mine’.

Hal – Thank you Barry, thanks for saying that. I wrote that with my wife Gina, she had been on the telephone and she used the first line of that song – he reminds me of things I never knew I wanted – I wrote it down immediately, until she got off the phone and I said, baby, you have no idea what you just said! Let’s chase this around and yeah, it’s not only a pleasure to write a love song, but to write a love song with your wife, significant other, mighty fine thing to do.

Barry – So does that make it ‘your song’ now, as you’ve both written it?!

Hal – Yeah, in a way, it does, also she’s very proud ‘cos she hasn’t written, that’s the first song she’s ever written in her life so now she’s got the first song she ever wrote on a record, she’s kind of like “Oh this is easy!”

Barry – And it’s on a Hal Ketchum record as well!

Hal – Yeah, it’s kind of cute to watch too. I said “Baby, I’ve written 700 songs, this isn’t really that easy”, she said “What do you mean, it’s not easy, there’s nothing to it!” So yeah, it’s interesting.

Barry – So now you’ve got your own in-house writer?

Hal – I do, absolutely man, it’s a family business!

BARRY PLAYS FOREVER MINE

Barry – So when is it you’re back over in the UK, do you know your dates for coming over?

Hal – I do, I do Barry, I’m coming over on 20 February, that’s our travel day, I think the first date is in Ireland on 22nd February and I have almost 30 shows, predominately in Ireland. I’m also playing 4 shows in Britain and 2 shows in Scotland as well.

Barry – You’ll be in Glasgow for one of your shows, I saw you perform last year at the Grand Ole Opry here in Glasgow.

Hal – Great room by the way! I love that room.

Barry – The décor is very western, quite quaint.

Hal – It’s very funky, and it’s a very cool room and the crowd! People were just hanging off the rafters. It’s a great feeling for an old traveller like me.

BARRY PLAYS HEARTS ARE GONNA ROLL

Barry – You were saying the actual fans back in America are different to the ones in Britain as far as the British ones seem to want to research you more and find out more about you, do you find that the live audiences when you’re playing are different as well? Do you think you are more appreciated in the US or do you think because it’s more of a novelty for us you’re more appreciated over here or do you think it’s kind of equal?

Hal – I think it’s equal, I really do. I think that a well written song, if it’s well presented, gets into people’s hearts and stays there. I think too that my performance the way I approach it, I don’t have a set list, I have a great band, my band’s coming with me this trip, they all live in Austin Texas, and we have a very deep bag of songs and so we just play what comes off the top of my head. These guys jump on it and we go, and people will shout for songs from the audience, and even if I haven’t played something in 3 or 4 years, I’ll take a shot at it. There’s a lot of audience participation in my shows, really it’s about the town we’re playing in, it’s a chance for people in that community to get together, we’re just the musical entertainment. We’re just part of the package, so it’s a real enjoyable approach, and so consequently my audiences have come to expect that and to feel like we’re all in this room in this little space of time together, it’s a nice thing.

Barry – It is, I must admit when I saw you perform, you do get the feeling that you’re very in tune with the audience. At the weekends, that’s how I sort of DJ you know, like this one will go after that one, but after that I don’t know what’s gonna happen, I think that’s definitely the way to do it.

Hal – You gotta play the room, you know. It’s a different room every night and I think that for me I can’t imagine playing the same set, the same songs, to me that would be like punching the clock at the factory, and this is not a factory, this is really about a different point in time every night, that’s part of the adventure of doing this.

Barry – A friend of mine lives in Texas and she saw Dwight Yoakum when she was over there. She said to me “Oh, it’s the biggest, the most rocking show you’ll ever see”, and he came over here to play Glasgow and the British audience, and it wasn’t like that at all. It was kind of quite melancholy, he played a lot of older stuff, obviously trying to play up to the audience that was here. The thing was that I thought that country music in the UK is a little bit stagnant. Dolly Parton and Willie Nelson are touring this year, but you don’t get any new breakthrough artists, do you think there is any way to change that in the UK or do you think that it’s kind of stuck.

Hal – I think there is, and I think it’s important. I tell young artists all the time, I really make a point of saying ‘Look, you’ve got to do it, you’ve got to make the effort”. I find UK audiences really appreciate somebody willing to come over and do it, and for me it’s a progression, it’s taken several trips to really reach a point where I’m in a position to do 30 shows, sell ‘em out and have a great time doing it. And I’m also bringing my 9 year old daughter with me this time because she needs this experience in her life. I talk about it all the time and she knows I’m going and she kind of worked on me! She said “Dad, I can’t miss you for 30 or 40 days, what am I going to do?” I talked to my wife, and I said “Well why don’t you just come with me?”, so she is over the moon. She is gonna have a wonderful, wonderful time and get to really experience first hand what I’ve been experiencing now for 15 years.

Barry – What you said a little bit earlier about new artists coming over, it’s one thing that myself and Pat Geary get annoyed with, is the fact that there seems to be this thing where there’s certain artists like yourself who have made the effort to come over and establish audiences, that’s great, but the younger artists who are now coming up, they need to make all their money in America and then they’re not interested in anywhere else. You just feel like saying there’s a huge market here for you, you just need to get over and tap into it and it’s crazy.

Hal – Yeah, absolutely true, and I preach that, I do, I preach that to young artists all the time. Life’s not about money, you can’t buy happiness. You can buy a yacht and pull right up beside it! You gotta make efforts that affect your soul, your heart, and again I can’t say enough about audiences, European audiences, really are there to hear the written word and to hear what you have to say, and that’s kind of a unique thing. We live in a very accelerated society in the States, things have become so fast. It’s like ‘thrill me, okay now thrill me again, and then thrill me again or we’ll find somebody else to thrill us’. I’d rather see my friends and have them bring their kids out and turn them onto what I do, and that’s again why I’m bringing my daughter because she needs this, this is a part of my life, a part of my world now. I’m in a position now to perhaps start coming over twice a year, I could do a Spring tour and a Fall tour. It’s wonderful to see a different pace, a different lifestyle, I don’t care who you are or where you come from, it’s really important.

BARRY PLAYS EVERYTIME I LOOK IN YOUR EYES

Barry – You got any favourites, obviously apart from the one you wrote with your wife, ‘cos I reckon that would be one of the top ones.

Hal – Sure, but you know Barry they’re all my children and I love ‘em all, I really do, I’m not just saying that, I’m really very happy with everything I cut on this record. I am partial to ‘The Alamo’, which is about that famous old shrine down in Texas. It was written by Gary Burr and I just think it’s one of the best written songs, ever. Gary Burr is a consummate songwriter, he was challenged to just open a book and put his finger down with his eyes closed onto a page and write about the word that he put his finger on, the word happened to be Alamo, and he wrote this piece in about an hour and a half about that subject matter. Possibly one of the most brilliant ways ever, I love that song very much, very partial to that one.

BARRY PLAYS THE ALAMO

Barry – I’d just like to say Hal thank you very much for this interview and we’ll look forward to seeing you in February, coming over and touring, and we’ll hopefully get along to your show and see you perform.

Hal – I hope so Barry, It’d be good to see you pal, thanks.

BARRY PLAYS SMALL TOWN SATURDAY NIGHT.