78 16 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. CARLSON: 18 Q Mr. Gluba, of what value is a crime scene after the 19 officers and the investigators and as many people as we 20 saw in regard to this particular seen have been in there? 21 A It still has probative value. It still may tell us 22 something. 23 Q All right. Would you agree with me that we do know 24 that when that many people have been in there and things 25 have been taken, that the scene is substantially different DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
79 1 than when it first was? 2 MR. CORGAN: I’m going to object to the 3 leading nature of the question. 4 THE COURT: Sustained. 5 Q (By Mr. Carlson) What, if anything do we know about 6 the scene after the officers have been in there and taken 7 things? 8 A That items of evidence have been carried away, either 9 intentionally or unintentionally on a shoe or on 10 somebody’s sleeve of their coat or whatever. 11 Q Is there any way that you and I can go back to the 12 way the scene was when it was found by the officers? 13 A Absolutely not. 14 Q Therefore, there is not a lot that we can do with 15 regard to recreating that particular scene in some ways? 16 MR. CORGAN: I’m going to object to the 17 leading nature of the question. 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 19 Q (By Mr. Carlson) What, if anything, can we do to 20 recreate the scene? 21 A We can do visual observations, counsel, but once a 22 scene has been changed, if things have been moved or 23 altered or carried away, we can’t return to the original. 24 Q Now, let me ask you about these reports that Mr. 25 Corgan wanted to ask you about. I want to give you an DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
80 1 example with regard to them. I’ll hand you this first 2 one, which I’ll refer to as Miss Lee’s report, and direct 3 your attention to items number 12 through 16. And I’ll 4 hand you this next particular report which is listed as. 5 evidence list and chain of custody. Now, those are two 6 which he handed you, is that correct? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q Now, as you compare items 12 through 16 along with 9 item number 3 on the other list, those still don’t tell 10 you what they’re looking for, do they? 11 A No, they don’t tell me the details that I would need 12 to make a meaningful observation and analysis of what 13 these documents are speaking to. I mean, we have a list 14 of times, but the correlation is not there. 15 Q And what, if anything, is the reason that we want 16 that to be done once somebody has been in there in the 17 scene? 18 A Well, each item of evidence must stand on its own 19 because it may tell us something. It may tell us the 20 position of a person, part of the event, movement of the 21 victim, movement of the assailant. Each item must be 22 individually collected and protected and then examined. 23 Q With regard to this particular evidence list, which 24 it was another document that he handed you, correct? 25 A That is correct. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
81 1 Q And we can line up, for instance, on the first 2 document, items 12 through 16. 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q Now, with regard to item number 1 on the evidence 5 list, does it even tell you what locality specifically it 6 was found? 7 A No, it does not, and it’s a number of items, which 8 gives me a problem. 9 Q Okay. Why does it give you a problem? 10 A Well, these are towels. Two towels. One dish towel, 11 one piece of gauze, one piece of paper, red stains. If 12 that’s one item on an evidence list that tells me that 13 those items have been mixed together, they’ve been 14 commingled. That means that trace evidence on one towel 15 very well may have been transferred to another towel or to 16 all the towels. Commingling of evidence in a container 17 means it’s contamination. It’s like taking three buckets 18 of paint and pouring it into one. The integrity of the 19 individual items is no longer there, and I have a problem 20 with this. 21 Q If you and I went out there and tried to take these 22 lists and locate in that house where those items were 23 found specifically, could we do that? 24 A I could not reconstruct the crime scene based on what 25 I have here in my hands. DISTRICT COURT OF OKLAHOMA OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT
82 1 MR. CARLSON: Thank you. That’s all we 2 have.
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LH 2000