THE MUNTZ FAMILY OR
MUNCE FAMILY AND BINGHAM FAMILY
OF CREW KILDARE, KILLOUGH,
ARDGLASS, DOWNPATRICK, COUNTY DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND
and those who immigrated
to Victoria Australia.
Joseph
Munce ( abt 1742-1824) and his wife Elizabeth Co Down, Northern Ireland.
They had 2 sons
Joseph
MUNCE and John
MUNCE who remained in Ireland.
Many of their
children immigrated to Australia.
When
they arrived in Australia they changed their surname MUNCE to MUNTZ
[Discussion
of how this was done on purpose in letter 1864 to
brother Hugh
Muntz
in Victoria]
The name probably had been Anglicized when they first went from Europe
to Great Britain.
Abbreviations
All
with the surname MUNCE stayed in Ireland. Red for living male descendants
named MUNTZ -about. 57..
Protestants
All we know of this Joseph
and Elizabeth MUNCE comes from a monumental inscription. There are
no known records of where Joseph was born and what his wife's maiden
name was or their place of marriage. We know they had at least
two sons, Joseph and John who were born at Crew Kildare, County Down and
that they rented farmland and buildings there from a Frenchman. We
do know that their grandchildren were very staunch Orange Lodge Masons.
Interesting to note that
the centre of Killough has the Platien House, Palatine Square,
Killough. Some cousins lived here may
have been been Palatine Germans.[Liz R 2006]
But the word Palatine also
means the place of the rulers or a palace?
"Palatine
square and lane are so called as a result of a group of refugees settling
here in the 1709. A group of Germans from the Palatine region had
suffered religious persecution in their own country. The Irish government
gave them leave to settle here and a group of them did. They were
mostly employed in the linen trade, another group went to Limerick and
became lacemakers. "
from the Down County Museum
Education Officer - many thanks! 19 July 2006
The above is from "Killough, the church on the lough" published in 2000.
But even a full quote from the Queens U library does
not indicate any proof at all for this statement.
There is no proof for or against this. There are several possiblilities.
Details on the roots web message board for County Down. And some private
emails flatly disagree, none offer proof.
The German Palatinate consisted
of two small areas in the southern part of present-day Germany which has
seen many wars and change of names.
"Why did Germans
go to Ireland? In 1709, a total group of 13,000 Germans escaped religious
persecution in the Palatinate region of Germany. of Germany, adjacent to
the river Rhine, were not fleeing from hunger or starvation, but had been
recruited by English estate owners ".. - who had made false promises
and these Palatines became outcasts and suffered poverty on the outskirts
of London. From here they moved to Ireland - many on the way to the
"New World".
"In Ireland their agricultural
skills were good and they prospered... Where the Irish
farmers were using spades to dig the soil the Palatines used horse and
ploughs to till the land.
"German was the spoken
language of the early Palatines in Ireland, but by the end of the third
or fourth generation English was commonly used. Mixed marriages occurred
in the early 19th Century of Irish and Germans - original enmities
gone.
from http://mike.blackledge.com/IrishGroup-AGS.html
Origins
One family legend is that
we are descended from Huguenots from Alsace -Lorraine.
Another legend in Queensland
has it that 2 Muntz brothers came over to Ireland as soldiers of William
of Orange c 1688.
Also its possible they came from Europe to London see this exellent
page re Jewish and here
for Huguenots
It is also possible that
they were Protestant Palatine Germans, 800 of whom immigrated
to Ireland from 1709.
Muntz is very common in Holland
and North Germany.
There is no listing of Muntz's
that could be our line, in any of the very extensive Huguenots records
( both British immigration records and Huguenot Irish land grants available
at AIGS library 1999) of those who came to England and Ireland.
Our Name
Muntz is Jewish
(Ashkenazic) meaning a minter or one who mints coins -source and details
of the many spelling variations here.The name Muntz
is common in northern Germany and Netherlands.
Muntz's in Australia and NZ
Muntz listing in telephone
directories: 10 in New Zealand, 50 in NSW, 16 in Q'land, 24 W.A., 46 in
Vic.listings in the public domain phone books [couples count as one listing].
List
Naming system
There are many descendants
of Joseph and Elizabeth Munce, bearing the Muntz surname in Australia and
New Zealand - about 68 males - in 2001. Due to the naming system
extant until about 1900 the custom in Great Britain was to name the first
born son after its paternal grandfather, the second son after the father,
the first daughter was named after the maternal grandmother etc. which
is why we have so many Joseph and John Muntz's in the tree. Here is a list
of Joseph Munce/Muntz's and I have probably missed some..
Education in County Down.
Ardglass had one of the
earliest of all schools in County Down: an Erasmus Smith institution was
established in 1820. [I wonder if this is where the Muntz chidren
b 1822+ went to school?] there were 67 Protestants and 81 Catholics
at the school 73 of whom were males and 75 females. Other schools
in the area were the Dunsford National School 1841, and Ardglass
National School 1863.
from "The Ardglass History
Project" who are producing a local history book, http://studentweb.belfastinstitute.ac.uk/HOW04123548/School.htm |
Three
sisters BINGHAM from
original tree
Margaret
BINGHAM
(1796-1867) m Joseph
MUNCE(1795-1893)
their
descendants family names: here
Martin Brewer
/ Bray Nelson McDowell Cummins Stewart Cotter Jamison / Jamieson
Furze Hosken Phillips Longstaff Miller Irwin Dawson McNaughton
Baird Eddy Harrington Gardier Saha Morefiled Templeston Moore Fisher Gilchrist
Caven Burgess Shanahan / Knowles Chalmers Adams Gibb Waters Irvine Fleming
Worrell Matson Foenander Barton
Susanna
BINGHAM(1804-1884)
m John MUNCE (1804
- 1884)
their
descendants family names: here
Jamison / Jamieson
Evans / Dunstan Stuart Malone Stockdale Thompson Healy Leech Nielson
Crawford Blackburn,Lawson Beswick Guthrie Llanf Gould Cameron Lang Craig
Kaye Gullick Wickham Furze Fretwell Bugg Furze Richmond
Sarah
BINGHAM
m
Hugh MARTIN family
below
Mary MARTIN m TUTTLE
Margaret
MARTIN mJoseph MUNTZ (1824-1886) to
Aus.
Sarah MARTIN m JORDAN to Canada
.......... MARTIN m DONNAN
We have a lot of Josephs
!
Joseph Munce (1742-1824)
Joseph
MUNCE (1795-1893
Joseph
MUNTZ (1823-1886)
Joseph
MUNTZ (1827-1902)
Joseph
Carson MUNTZ (1855-1828)
Joseph
"Bingham" Muntz (1857-1915)
Joseph
Thomas Jamison Muntz (1895-1963)
Joseph
William MUNTZ (1859-1943)
Joseph
William Muntz 1884-1917
Joseph
William Muntz (1920 - 1942)
Joseph
Martin Muntz (1911- 1994)
-------------------------------------
 click
for larger photo
Joseph MUNCE died
24 Jan 1824 aged 82 and
Elizabeth MUNCE died
1st Oct 1828 aged 59 years
from headstone in Ardglass
Parish, St Nicholas, Church of Ireland.
Their two sons: Joseph MUNCE
(1795-1893) and John MUNCE (1804 - 1884) married the BINGHAM sisters,
many of whose children came to Australia in 1850s-60s and became
MUNTZ's
click for larger photo by
late Joseph Martin Muntz of Pt Lonsdale c 1956?
This is the farm house on
Crew Hill, Crew Kildare, of Joseph and Elizabeth MUNCE where the
above John and Joseph MUNCE were very likely born. It is about 2
miles(?) from "Harbour View" near Killough and 1 mile(?) from Ardglass.
This farm was rented in "1858 from a Mr Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk
"
. PRO NI. Cat Ref T 1009 (478)
Unfortunately this house
has been pulled down due to a creek underneath it and a new one built to
the left of this position - 2001 info from cousin Allan L Muntz whose
photos are below!
|
Research of Irish Records for
any mention of Munces related gave these interesting snippets:
In 1896, Aubrey
de Vere Beauclerq (sic) owned Ardglass Castle. He became bankrupt
in 1907 and the Castle went to the golf club.
Below Griffiths Valuation
c 1858 shows John and Joseph Munce renting farm and sheds and land from
Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk in Kildares Crew, Co.Down.[N.B.
there are many MUNCEs in Co Down in this period see Griffiths Valuations
AIGS]
"Joseph MUNCE 1845
1847 agreement and assignment Crew Kildare Co. Down, Cat.Ref.
Hall documents D 424 (84) ( 86) . 1833 to 36 3 rentals of estate of James
Trail Hall.
1847 Bernard Connor Ross.
Co.Down .
*Joseph Munce Crew
Kildare Co.Down. James Neiper. Tollingrang.Co.Down.. Reassignment of lease
of 4 and a half acres IPM for life. Consideration 40 pounds." PRONI.
424 86 Conveyance - Indenture
"...re 19 acres Irish
Plantation Measure more or less "Charles Albert Leslie Esquire to one John
Connor since deceased .. son Barnard Connor Junior ..signed .."Barney Connor"
click
for larger map
.
Map of Ireland showing Ardglass
(green hill in Irish) and Killough, Co.Down, south of Belfast on
the east coast. Joseph and John Munce rented land at Crew Hill, part of
Kildares Crew. The Bingham sisters came from Bishops Court. The
Killough area once grew flax and it was shipped to Dublin for
linen making.
The only known living
Munce / Muntz relatives in Ireland c 1995 are:
M. Stewart, Marshaltown
Downpatrick, Co Down,
M.Cavan Ballyhossett,
DPK,Co. Down, a local historian.
Margaret "Meta'
Munce's son an architect named Alex Munce born c 1945, was in Ballymena
Co Antrim c 1995 - who grew up with grandparents in Ardglass.
[The Brian and Elizabeth
Hamilton connected to Stockdales who lived at Ballynoe in the 1950s. are
not known to be relatives but it seems they are very friendly to
all the Muntzs from Australasia that visit them.]
Photos by Allan L. Muntz
of NZ in 2001 visit to Ardglass,-
descendant of the Joseph
"Bingham" Muntz whose parents, Capt. John Munce and Ann Cummins
and a baby died in shipwreck near Calcutta.
Approach to the new house
on Crew Hill, Crew Kildare- see below closer up
The new house just to
the left of the original house where Joseph Munce and Elizabeth lived with
their sons Joseph and John. There are some very old buildings a few hundred
yards back.
View from the front
of the house on Crew Hill towards Killough - close up of this picture below
House on Crew Hill,
Crew Kildare from distance-center of panorama- close up below
Margarets' tower and
Ardglass Harbour
.....
Ardglass harbour from
opposite angles - the right is from near the Church
On a side street in Ardglass,
The Commercial Pub a
17th Century building
with low doors Allan
had to stoop to get through!
+++++
Castle Street Killough,
1950's photo by
Joseph Muntz (late) of
Pt Lonsdale Vic. and below a postcard c 1920's?
Postcard of Killough
church c 1920's?
References to early Munce
people in Ireland [who may or not be related to us.] from Irish records:
William Munce 1732 RE :
Down Deanery Tithes Ballynagross Co.Down " A view book for the great Tithe
of the Deanery of Down for the year 1732" PRO N.I. ref T 553/6
John Munce 30 May 1816. Belfast
-re shared pew with Mrs R. Wilson 1st preesbbyterian Church congregation.
List of members of 1st Presbyterian congregation Belfast to whom
pay stipend cat ref T 889/20
Joseph Munce 1845 1847 Agreements
and assignment Crew Kildare Co.Down. Cat Ref. Hall documents D 424 (84)
(86)
Document 424/84 is 1833
- 1836 3 rentals of James Trrail Haalll.
Document 414/86 is 6 Dec
1847 Bernard Connor. Ross Co.Down. Joseph Munce Crew Kildare Co Down James
Neiper Tollingrang Co.Down. Re assignment and lease of 4 and half acres
IPM [Irish Plantation Measure] for life. Consideration 40 pounds lands:
Ross Co.Down.
John Munce - Farmer 1848
Ballyalgan, Killinchy Parish. Re: Anti Repeal Petition - Lord Lieutenant
from Lord Dufferin's tenant 1848. Address from Ards. Tenantry of
Earl Clarendon Lord Lieutenant and Governor General of Ireland. Cat Ref
D 1071A/A/12. 2 cards.
Joseph Munce 1858 John Munce
1858 Copy of rental Crews Kildare Co.Down. Re: Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk
and others. 6 Feb 1858 In chancery rental and receivers report. Details
of 355 tenants details of repairs and costs. cart Ref T 1009 (478)
William Munce 1865 RE William
Munce - Timber merchants Belfast (James Martin grocer to above) (Copy
mortgages etc c 1865) cat Ref D 1905/2/69/7.
+++++
Another Munce was Hanged
at Downpatrick late 1700's but I cant remember the source.
Another of many Munces in
county Down who were not related to us -arrest
Killough Sailing Regatta
1893 - part of flyer - click on it for the whole of this old document
List of County Down Deeds
in 1876 for Munce
Andrew Munce, address
Saintfield, owned 13 acres.
Denis Munce, address Lisburn,
owned 1 acre.
Joseph Munce, address Ballynagross,
Ardglass, owned 30 acres.
William Munce, same address,
owned 32 acres.
Ardglass, Church
of Ireland; St. Nicholas in Kildare St, Ardglass town; church
built 1813 storm damage 4 Nov 1848; re opened 1876; old
memorial document dated 1772 ( 22 Jul 1882) [This document may give
us further information ? Where is it located ?] ; graveyard ,
gravestones Ulster Historical Foundation Vol 8.
Muntz Engineers referred to in History of John Monash
[Vic] pre WW1,
for example from
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aholgate/jm/mainpages/people1.html
Muntz, F. P., Shire Engineer, Merriang. MB-Darraweit Guim. [ near Wooedend,
Vic]
Muntz, Thomas Bingham., A senior consulting engineer. Member of a large
family of engineers in Victoria. Arbitrator for the Fyansford Bridge contract.
Designer of the Bendigo Creek Improvement Scheme and friend of M&A.
FF, BC&W, KB.
[Also began as a shire engineer at Metcalf, near Woodend, Coode
Canal, Redesdale Bridge, etc etc and Mayor of Prahran, Melbourne &
father of famous artist Josephine Muntz Adams]
Muntz, William Jamison. Water resources engineer. MABB.
[This is not all who were
engineers!]
Australian place: NT
Coomalie Creek (Locality)
Coomalie
This eastern Coomalie locality
is named after the stream - ‘Coomalie Creek’ running though the locality.
Previously called the West
Branch of the Adelaide River, Coomalie Creek is believed to have been first
recorded by Surveyor AA Briggs in 1913 when he and Surveyor Muntz where
surveying the area adjacent to the Adelaide River.
[This would refer to
the son -thought to be Edwin Parnell Muntz- of Thomas Bingham Muntz who
worked there when Josephine painted the marvellous outback homestead verandah
with woman and child talking to Afghan trader -see "Completing the Picture"
Hammond and Peers.]
[ From The Origin of the
Greater Darwin area Suburb, Locality, Town and Hundred Names - Northern
Territory. http://www.lpe.nt.gov.au/place/ntplaces/greaterdwn.htm ]
Queensland [note from the Internet: maybe in Robina?]
Lake Hugh Muntz
The waters adjacent to Barrier Reef Drive, Mermaid Waters, known as
Lake Hugh Muntz. This would probably be named after the grandfather
of Geoff Muntz a member of parliament in Queensland in the 1980s-
I think? Hugh Muntz [green tree] had only one son who had male heirs-
Edward who incidentally was also a civil engineer first in Victoria at
Moe where he married, then in Queensland .where he made the railway
"tramway" at Mosssman to get the sugar to the ships.
Charles Muntz family from Germany
I have had a request for information about this Charles Muntz
who is not related to ours. Any information about his parents or descendants
would be appreciated by his descendants. email
"It is thought that he was German but there is no proof... no certificates
mention his place of birth or the names of his parents.
His death certificate in 1873 just says that he was age 47 and had
been in the colonies of NSW for 23 years. (arriving c 1856) he could have
been in another colony first.
Charles Muntz born c1832 married 1863 Wellington
NSW
Mary Anne Dixon
died 1879 age 47 Wellington.
He was a miner
children
Thomas C.
1865 Wellington
Wilhelmine M. 1867 "
George F.W. 1869
"
Edward
1870 "
Elizabeth Catherine 1871 "
Esther Amelia
1873 Hill End
Emily ellen
1875 Hill End
Amelia H.
1876 Hill End
Albert H.
1878 Orange
William John
1880 Wellington
1870 - Land owners - one or more acres of land in Co. Down, Ireland, the
latter part of the 1870s.
Andrew Munce, address Saintfield, owned 13 acres.
Denis Munce, address Lisburn, owned 1 acre.
Joseph Munce, address Ballynagross, Ardglass,owned 30 acres.
William Munce, same address, owned 32 acres.
1863-1864 in county Down - Griffiths
Valuation Index Extracts - County Down-
[Griffiths Valuation lists all the householders] from here
The full records of the Griffiths has: the townland address
and householders name; the name of the person from whom the property is
leased; a description of the property; the acreage and the valuation.
The valuation of Ireland was completed between the years
1847 and 1864 ..This massive project was undertaken to assess the payment
of various local taxes by the people of Ireland. These taxes were linked
to the value of property occupied by each tax payer. The results of the
valuers' work were published in a series of over 300 volumes detailing
the names of all the property occupiers (not simply owners) in Ireland
and the value of their house and land.
The valuation covers the entire country: every property
in Ireland was included in the valuation, with the occupier's name (as
well as the name of the person to whom the occupier paid rent). The occupier
would generally be the head of the household. The valuation covers not
just houses, but also buildings and land of any description, and so lists
every landholder and occupier who paid rates in Ireland
Some individuals appear more
than once if the person occupied more than one property, usually a house
and/or more than one parcel of land. The original records give extra information
including the size of the plot of land and the valuation of the property.
all the munce and muntzs BUT one person can be listed
more than once.
Munce Samuel
The Plantation
Killyleagh
Down
Muntz
John
Ballyalgan
Killyleagh
Down
Muntz
William
Ballywillin
Killyleagh
Down
Munce Robert
Corporation, South
Newtownards
Down
Munce Thomas
Corporation, South
Newtownards
Down
Munn David
Ballycullen
Newtownards
Down
Munn John
Ballycullen
Newtownards
Down
Muntz
Robert
Court Street,
Newtownards
Down
Muntz
Thomas
Court Street,
Newtownards
Down
Munce
Joseph
Killough
Rathmullan
Down
Malone
Mary Harriet [m John Muntz] Downpatrick
Road, Killough Rathmullan
Down my grans mother! see
Munce
John
Kildares Crew
Ardglass
Down
Munce
Joseph
Jordans Crew
Ardglass
Down ? rels?
or the one Joseph
Munce
Joseph
Kildares Crew
Ardglass
Down
Munce
Joseph
Tullycarnan
Ardglass
Down ?
rels
Munce
William
Drumbo
Drumbo
Down
Munce
Denis
Largymore
Blaris
Down
Munce Andrew
Saintfield Parks
Saintfield
Down
Munce Andrew
Cow Market,Saintfield
Saintfield
Down
Muntz Andrew
Glasdrumman
Saintfield
Down
Another web site shows all these results for Munce - note this give
the name of the sources!!
First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
Joseph Munce Jordans Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Elizabeth Munce Kildare's Crew Ardglass 1901_Census (Ardglass Division)
John Munce Kildares Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Joseph Munce Kildares Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Jo Munce Ringfad & Tullycorran Ardglass Tithes_1833
Joseph Munce Tullycarnan Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Joseph Munce Tullycarnan Ardglass Griffith's Valuation_1863
Joseph Munce Ballynagross Upper Ballee Tithes_1833
Joseph Munce Ballynagross Upper Ballee Tithes_1833
William Munce Ballynagrosses Ballee Downe Tithes_1732_PRONI/T/553/6
map
here
William Munce Ballysallagh Ballee 1901_Census (Ardglass Division)
Joseph & John Munce Kildare's Crew Ballee Tithes_1833
Denis Munce Largymore Blaris Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Jessie Munce Lisburn Bachelor's Walk Blaris 1901_Census Lisburn Division
Charles Munce Lisburn Saintfield Road Old Blaris 1901_Census Lisburn
Division
James ( M.D.) Munce Hill Hall Drumbeg 1901_Census Drumbeg Division
William Munce Drumbo Drumbo Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Samuel Munce Belfast Palmerstown Road Holywood 1901_Census Belfast
(Victoria Division)
James Munce Holywood Alexandra Park Holywood 1901_Census Holywood Urban
Division
David Munce Carrickmannon Killinchy Tithes_1833
William Munce Ballywabben Killyleagh Tithes_1827
Samuel Munce The Plantation Killyleagh Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
James Munce Drumgiven Kilmore Tithes_1834-1836
Robert Thomas Munce Corporation North Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Munce Corporation North Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert and Thomas Munce Corporation South Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Munce Newtownards Court Street Newtownards 1901_Census Newtownards
Urban Division
Robert Munce Newtownards Court Street Newtownards 1901_Census Newtownards
Urban Division
Joseph Munce Killough Rathmullan Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Andrew Munce Cow Market Saintfield Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Andrew Munce Saintfield Parks Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
--------------
First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
John Muntz Ballyalgan Killyleagh
Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
William Muntz Ballywillin Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Andrew Muntz Glasdrumman Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
------------
Thanks to Margaret - July 2006:
[in answer to my rootsweb request for info re Palatine Square
and Palatine Germans in Killough]
Robert & Thomas Munce appear in Griffith's Valuations as having
3 acres 3 roods 15 perches of land between them in Corporation South, Newtownards.
This area was mostly fields in 1863, when the Valuations were taken.
..
Also in Griffith's, I found Robert & Thomas "Muntz" in Court
St.
They seem to have leased four houses there, from the Marquis of
Londonderry, and sublet two of these to other people.
No10 Robert Muntz lessor L'derry house offices yard & sm garden.
No11 Thomas Muntz as above
No12 Duncan McDowell lessors Rob. & Thom. Muntz ho. off. yd.
& sm. gar.
No13 William McElwain as above.
No14 Rob. & Thom. Muntz lessor L'derry upper part of store, in
rear of nos. 12 & 13.
---------
[Ballynegross info early- from here
- just a few miles north of Crew Kildare - Jordans crew etc]
Ballynagross Annaclone 29: 14/39 4km SW of Annaclone village;368
acres; click here to see its location on a townland map; means ' townland
of the crosses'; in 17th century it was part of Shankill; estate of General
Meade in 1836 V12 p 16 OSM; PNNI V6 p 67
Ballynagross
Upper & Lower
Ballee . 5km W of Dunsfort village; 285 & 295
acres; click here to see its location on a townland map;part sold to Adam
McCutcheon in 1710 then Rev. A. Walsh in 1718 then Hugh Henry then Joshua
MsGeough in 1813; & part to Downshire Estate in 1710 thenRev. Thomas
Nevin then leased to Mr. Johnston; owned by Lord De Clifford; proprietor
Mr Bond McGeogh, Armagh & Trinity College in 1836 ; there were 22 families
needing famine relief in these townlands Aug 1847; waylaying incident 4
Dec 1852; article on townland 2 Jan 1869 V17 p 22 OSM; DR; O'L V1 p 307;
FCD S2 p 25
[I have no idea what those numbers are for...]
FLAX GROWERS OF IRELAND, 1796 - County Down
NO MUNCE OR MUNTZ'S
Ardglass Castle Ardglass . set in 28 acres; built early 15th century
as a warehouse; Lord Charles Fitzgerald bought it in 1790 and rebuilt it
as a castle; sold to William Ogilvie in 1806;castle owned by Beauclerk
family 28 Sep 1844: & Aubrey de Vere Beauclerk in 1863; castle’s state
8 Nov 1851; improvements to castle 9 Dec 1876; Ardglass Golf Clubhouse
since 1907; photo available DR; LWAG p 48,53; GV; O'L V1 p 167
A useful book! for our family ...?
"Institute of Irish Studies
Publications: Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland 1830-1840
Series editors Angélique
Day and Patrick McWilliams
In the 1830s a major series
of parish accounts was commissioned to accompany the new Ordnance Survey
maps. These became known as the Memoirs. Only the northern part of Ireland
was covered before the scheme was dropped, and only one parish Memoir was
published at the time. Now, over 150 years later, the Institute of Irish
Studies, the Queen's University of Belfast, in association with the Royal
Irish Academy, has published the Memoirs in full to provide a unique source
for the cultural heritage of our community. The 40 volumes and accompanying
index act as a nineteenth-century Domesday book, and are essential
to the understanding of the cultural heritage of our communities. The Memoirs
record landscape, buildings and antiquities, land-holdings and population,
and employment and livelihood of the parishes.
This series is presented
in an attractive edition, illustrated with drawings from the parish Memoirs
and maps from the original Ordnance Survey. "
Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland Volume 17: Parishes of County Down
IV 1833-7, East Down & Lecale
Edited by Angélique Day and Patrick McWilliams
This volume contains the Memoirs for 15 parishes in East Down. Centres
covered include Ballynahinch, Crossgar and Downpatrick, as well as the
coastal towns of Ardglass, Killough, Killyleagh and Strangford. The material
paints a fascinating picture of these communities, through their history
and relics of antiquity, gentlemen's seats and mills, and there are extensive
details of agriculture, commerce, justice and the amusements of the people.
Natural history, too, is also well documented. We gain a unique insight
into life in this area over one hundred and fifty years ago.
The parishes covered in this volume are: Ardglass, Ballee, Ballyculter,
Ballykinler, Bright, Down, Dunsfort, Inch, Kilclief, Killyleagh, Kilmore,
Loughinisland, Magheradrool, Rathmullan, Saul.
1992 24 x 17cm,146pp
ISBN 085389 439 6 Paperback £7.50
ISBN 085389 438 8 Hardback £15.00
Hearth Money Rolls: 1664
In the years after the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland, a tax was levied
on all houses with fireplaces. Each fireplace in the house (usually 1)
was taxed. The record of people who were liable for this tax became
known as the Hearth Money Rolls. This record is of limited use for the
family researcher but is certainly worth looking at to ascertain if your
family name is listed in this document from 350 years ago.
County Down nineteenth century records: thanks to Ros Davies
web site here
Capt. . MUNCE . Bright
owned a fishing boat in Killough c. 1900 KCP p 25
Mr. . MUNCE . Bright resided in Castle
Street, Killough c. 1900 KCL p 25
Mr. . MUNCE . Drumbo ran a dispensary
in Drumbo village in 1833 with 114 patients V7 p 60 OSM
Mr. . MUNCE . Magheradrool council engineer
in Ballynahinch; 23 Jan 1939 DR*
. MUNCE
. Newtownards a baker; took over the mill in Dundonald in 1850
TMUOP p99
Miss Agnes MUNCE . Bangor wife of John
Bryne; mother of David b. 1865 CR
Andrew MUNCE . Saintfield a butcher in 1870
POD
David MUNCE . Down regt. Downpatrick;
husband of Mary Lockhart; father of William b. 27 Feb 1866 CR
Miss Eliza Jane MUNCE . Ballyculter regt.
Strangford; wife of William Stockdale; mother of Susanna b. 1869 &
Elizabeth Margaret b. 1871 CR
Miss Elizabeth MUNCE . Blaris regt. Lisburn;
wife of William Culbert; mother of Eliza Jane b. 1868 CR
Mrs. Elizabeth MUNCE Killyleagh
d. pre 1881; wife of Samuel; mother of Mary, Fanny, Lizzie & Jane Moorehead;
buried Presbyterian graveyard MID p 134
Mrs. Elizabeth MUNCE . Saintfield d.
9 Feb 1889 aged 60; wife of Andrew; buried 1st Presbyterian graveyard
MIs
Mr. J.S. MUNCE . Down engineer for Downpatrick
Rural Council 4 May 1935 DR*
James MUNCE . Belfast & Holywood a civil
engineer; b. 1852, son of David Munce (a clerk of works) married Margaret
Beddow 1877 ; father of twins, David & James Stilwell bpt. 1878 &Agnes
Margaret bpt. 1879 & Mark Lockhart bpt. 1881 at 1st Holywood Presbyterian
Church PR
. James MUNCE . Kilmore d. 19 Mar 1838 aged
75;husband of Margaret; father of Robert & Thomas of Newtownards; buried
Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard MIs
. James MUNCE . Newtownards of Francis
St, Newtownards ; a reed maker in 1846 POD
. James MUNCE . Newtownards husband of Mary
Martin;
father of Robert b. 4 Nov 1867 & Thomas b. 6 Oct 1869 & Thomas
b. 13 Apr 1871 CR
Dr. James MUNCE M.D. Saintfield doctor
in Saintfield in 1899 POD
Miss Jenny Lockhart MUNCE . Holywood
wife of Thomas Johnston; mother of dith bpt. 1889 & Thomas bpt. 1890
at 1st Holywood Presbyterian Church PR
.
John MUNCE . Ballee of Ballynagross;
husband of Cathrine who died 12 Sep 1811; buried Downpatrick Cathedral
graveyard MIs
Mr. John MUNCE . Ballee area gave 6/-
to Ballee Famine Relief Fund in May 1847 FCD p 24
Joseph MUNCE . Ardglass of Crew Hill; 1742-1824;
husband of Elizabeth; father of Joseph & John; check Liz's site
at [ ! old - muntz/muntz1.htm]
Mr. Joseph MUNCE . Ballee area gave £1
.4.0.to Ballee Famine Relief Fund in May 1847 & 10 shillings later
FCD p 24
Joseph MONCE . Ballee in Ballyhossett; leased
an office & 38 acres from Viscount Bangor in 1864 GV
Margaret MUNCE . Newtownards d. 29 Nov 1912
aged 74; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumaghlis MIs
Miss Martha MUNCE . Comber wife of Hamilton
Patton ; mother of johnb. 1869 & David b. 1874 CR
Martha MUNCE . Down of Irish St, Downpatrick;
a china, glass & earthenware dealer in 1824 POD
.
Martha MINCE . Down left a will in 1833; executor
was John Kowan of Downpatrick IIW # 46436
Newel MUNCE . Bright regt. Killough; husband
of Elizabeth McDowell; father of Margaret Bingham Munce b. 6 Mar 1869 &
Elizabeth b. 2 Jul 1870; attended politcal meeting in Ardglass in support
of Capt. Ker M.P, 14 Nov 1885 ; re-appointed as select vestryman at Killough
Church of Ireland 2 Apr 1877 CR; DR*; LM 2002 p 45
. Robert MUNCE . Newtownards of Mill
St. Newtownards; a corn merchant in 1846 POD
.
Robert & Thomas MUNCE . Newtownards of Court
St, Newtownards; leased a store in upper part rear of #12 & 13 &
in Corporation South ; leased 3 acres in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry
GV
.
Robert
MUNTZ . Newtownards of Court St, Newtownards;
leased a house , yard & small garden in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry
GV
. Robert MUNCE . Newtownards husband
of Margaret Moore; father of James b. 22 Apr 1868 CR
. Robert MUNCE . Newtownards husband
of Anna Pinnins; father of Sarah b. 28 Jun 1870 CR
. Robert MUNCE . Newtownards died 16
Jan 1882 aged 78; uncle of Robert; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard,
Drumaghlis MIs
. Robert MUNCE . Newtownards died 14
Jul 1913 aged 74; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumaghlis
MIs
.
Samuel MUNCE . Killyleagh died
1881 aged 70; husband of Elizabeth; father of Mary, Fanny, Lizzie, Jane;
buried Presbyterian graveyard; for 31 years he was a steward to Capt. &
Mrs. Rowan Hamilton MID p 134
Miss. Sarah MUNCE Newtownards
eldest surviving daughter of Robert Munce of Court Street; married Nathaniel
K. Smyth of Carlow 7 Feb 1895 at Regent Street Presbyterian by Rev. James
Salter BWN
Miss Susanna MUNCE or MUNN . Knockbreda
regt. Castlereagh; wife of William John Skillen; mother of Jane b. 1869
& Alice b. 1874 CR
Thomas B. MUNCE . formerly Co. Down success
in Victoria, Australia 7 Dec 1861 DR [ Thomas Binhgam Muntz ]
Thomas MUNCE . Holywood husband of Margaret
McKinlay; father of Elizabeth b. 8 May 1868 CR
.
Thomas MUNTZ .
Newtownards of Court St, Newtownards; leased a house , yard &
small garden in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry , next door to Robert
Muntz;
they then leased out 2 cottages GV
Thomas MUNCE . Newtownards died 9 Apr 1885
aged 79; husband of Mary A. who d. 28 Sep 1842 aged 27; son of James &
Margaret;father of James who d. 8 Mar 1861 aged 21; buried Kilmore Presbyterian
graveyard, Drumgahlis MIs
William James MUNCE . Down of Grangiecam;
will probated 31 Mar 1855 IIW # 48870
Rev. William James S. MUNCE D.D. Tullylish
rector of the parish 1891- 1894
From CAORA http://www.caora.net/ surname search
of Full Griffith's Valuation details for County Down.
1863/4 when most of our ancestors were in Australia.
MUNTZ
First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
John Muntz Ballyalgan Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
William Muntz Ballywillin Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Andrew Muntz Glasdrumman Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
1823 -Barony of Lecale shows Joseph Munce resides Crew
Kildare freehold landlord Lord Charles Fizgerald and names of other tennants
CREY and son
Place and date of Registry Downpatrick 1st April 1823 -cut off
by me -impossible to catch the picture off thier proni web an other
way-
Griffiths Valuation 1861-62 of Co.Antrim--by Parish - LISBURN
TOWN
MUNTZ Denis Bow Street,(Old Warren) Lisburn Blaris
more snippits re MUNCE in Downpatrick - not know to be realted to our
family.... source unknown ..
Thomas Munce, of Irish Street, Downpatrick, wheelwright
who died August 1797, aged 47 was married to Martha Robinson,
who died 1831 13 February, aged 84
they had 3 daughters married to :
David Thomas , 1817 16 November
John McKittrick ,married 1830 24 November
Thomas Saul 1835 November 17
more information .
Snippet : Elizabeth Munce MI Saintfield First
Presbyterian Graveyard, Gravestone Inscriptions:
Morrow In memory of John Morrow of Saintfield who died 10 Dec
1846 aged 59 years. Also his wife Annie who died 25 Dec 1860
aged 73 years. Also their daughter Isabella who died 22 Jul 1842
aged 16 years. Also Eliza, wife of William Morrow, who died 05 Dec
1862. Also Annie Morrow, daughter of Wm. Spence, who died 06 Feb
1870 aged 3 years. Also his daughter Mary who died 09 Feb 1884.
Also the remains of my beloved wife Elizabeth Munce who departed
this life 09 Feb 1889 aged 60 years. Andrew Munce. Also
Annie Brown Gourley died 08 Oct 1902.
EDITORIAL
NOTES
LIST - I have a
list of all Muntz's in Australia and New Zealand for family use
from family records and phone books.
This has their initials
or full names and relationships where I know this, and addresses sorted
by state in the public domain. This will get full names and relationships
when I get more information so I can sort it out. For a copy of this file
please email me and tell me where you fit in our family.
New Zealand:
we have a lot of Cousins
there but this is not one :Muntz, Charles Adolphus, 1834-1908, Britain
New Zealand, nor is John Muntz music teacher.
2006 The music teacher that
we don't have any association with, ended up changing his spelling to Munns
and died about 4-5 years back.
2006 - Another Muntz in
NZ - not related, living in Mataura. He came from Western Australia.
His father went there from Holland.
More children will be added
to this Internet tree as time permits- I have mainly put in males
after the first generation in Australia as the full tree goes into the
thousands.
All the ones with surname
MUNCE stayed in Ireland.
Abbreviations*
:
NI = no children, b = born, d=died, ch=children, dau=daughter, m=married,
nm=notmarried c=about, bur=buried, MI=monumental inscriptions or writing
on tombstones, PRONI = Public Records Office of Northern Ireland,
AIGS=Australian Institute of Genealogical Studies Blackburn Melbourne,
VPRO=Victoria's Public Records Office
If any of this
family or other Muntz's have a web page it could be linked in here! Please
let me know or any.
Corrections with sources
&/ or more or better pictures to Liz in Melbourne -email
Updated Jan 2007
Up since 16 July 1998
