MUNTZ FAMILY - OR MUNTZ FAMILY TREE / MUNCE / BINGHAM AND MARTIN AND NELSON, Killough, Northern Ireland,& AUSTRALIA
THE MUNTZ FAMILY OR MUNCE FAMILY  AND BINGHAM FAMILY
OF CREW KILDARE, KILLOUGH, ARDGLASS, DOWNPATRICK, COUNTY DOWN, NORTHERN IRELAND
and those who  immigrated to Victoria Australia.

Joseph Munce ( abt 1742-1824) and his wife Elizabeth Co Down, Northern Ireland.

They had 2 sons Joseph MUNCE  and John MUNCE  who remained in Ireland.
Many of their children immigrated to Australia.
When they arrived in Australia they changed their surname MUNCE to MUNTZ
[Discussion of how this was done on purpose in letter 1864 to brother Hugh Muntz in Victoria]
  The name probably had been Anglicized when they first went from Europe to Great Britain.
 Abbreviations All with the surname MUNCE stayed in Ireland. Red for living male descendants  named MUNTZ   -about. 57..

Google

WWW THIS MUNTZ SITE

Protestants
All we know of this Joseph and Elizabeth MUNCE comes from a monumental inscription. There  are no known  records of where Joseph was born and what his wife's maiden name was or their place of marriage. We know  they had  at least two sons, Joseph and John who were born at Crew Kildare, County Down and that they  rented farmland and buildings there from a Frenchman. We do know that their grandchildren were very staunch Orange Lodge Masons.
Interesting to note that the centre of Killough  has the Platien House,  Palatine Square, Killough. Some cousins lived here may have been been Palatine Germans.[Liz R  2006] 

But the word Palatine also means the place of the rulers or a palace?

"Palatine square and lane are so called as a result of a group of refugees settling here in the 1709.  A group of Germans from the Palatine region had suffered religious persecution in their own country.  The Irish government gave them leave to settle here and a group of them did.  They were mostly employed in the linen trade, another group went to Limerick and became lacemakers. " 
from the Down County Museum Education Officer - many thanks! 19 July 2006

The above is from "Killough, the church on the lough" published in 2000. But even a full quote  from the Queens U  library  does not indicate any proof at all for this statement.

There is no  proof for or against this. There are several possiblilities. Details on the roots web message board for County Down. And some private emails  flatly disagree, none offer  proof.

The German Palatinate consisted of two small areas in the southern part of present-day Germany which has seen many wars and change of names.

"Why did Germans  go to Ireland?  In 1709, a total group of 13,000 Germans escaped religious persecution in the Palatinate region of Germany. of Germany, adjacent to the river Rhine, were not fleeing from hunger or starvation, but had been recruited by English estate owners ".. - who had  made false promises and  these Palatines became outcasts and suffered poverty on the outskirts of London. From here  they moved to Ireland - many on the way to the "New World".

"In Ireland their agricultural skills were good and they  prospered... Where the  Irish farmers were using spades to dig the soil the Palatines used horse and ploughs to till the land.

"German was the spoken language of the early Palatines in Ireland, but by the end of the third or fourth generation English was commonly used. Mixed marriages occurred  in the early 19th Century of Irish and Germans - original enmities gone.
from http://mike.blackledge.com/IrishGroup-AGS.html
 

Origins
One family legend is that we are descended from Huguenots from Alsace -Lorraine.
Another legend in Queensland has it that 2 Muntz brothers came over to Ireland as soldiers of William of Orange c 1688.
Also its possible they came from Europe to London see this exellent page re Jewish and here for  Huguenots
It is also possible that they were Protestant  Palatine Germans,  800 of whom immigrated to Ireland from 1709.

Muntz is very common in Holland and North Germany.
There is no listing of Muntz's that could be our line, in any of the very extensive Huguenots records ( both British immigration records and Huguenot Irish land grants available at AIGS library 1999) of those who came to England and Ireland. 

Our  Name
Muntz  is Jewish  (Ashkenazic) meaning a minter or one who mints coins -source and details of the many spelling variations here.The name Muntz is common in northern Germany and Netherlands.

Muntz's in Australia and NZ
Muntz listing in telephone directories: 10 in New Zealand, 50 in NSW, 16 in Q'land, 24 W.A., 46 in Vic.listings in the public domain phone books [couples count as one listing]. List

Naming system
There are  many descendants of Joseph and Elizabeth Munce, bearing the Muntz surname in Australia and New Zealand - about 68 males - in 2001.  Due to the naming system extant until about 1900 the custom in Great Britain was to name the first born son after its paternal grandfather, the second son after the father, the first daughter was named after the maternal grandmother etc. which is why we have so many Joseph and John Muntz's in the tree. Here is a list of Joseph Munce/Muntz's and I have probably  missed some..

Education in County Down.
Ardglass had one of the earliest of all schools in County Down: an Erasmus Smith institution was established in 1820. [I wonder if this is where the  Muntz chidren  b 1822+ went to school?]   there were 67 Protestants and 81 Catholics at the school 73 of whom were males and 75 females. Other  schools in  the area  were the Dunsford National School 1841, and Ardglass National School 1863.
from "The Ardglass History Project" who are producing a local history book, http://studentweb.belfastinstitute.ac.uk/HOW04123548/School.htm

Three sisters BINGHAM from original tree

Margaret BINGHAM (1796-1867) m  Joseph MUNCE(1795-1893) 
their descendants family names: here
Martin Brewer / Bray Nelson  McDowell Cummins Stewart Cotter Jamison  / Jamieson Furze Hosken Phillips Longstaff  Miller  Irwin Dawson McNaughton Baird Eddy Harrington Gardier Saha Morefiled Templeston Moore Fisher Gilchrist Caven Burgess Shanahan / Knowles Chalmers Adams Gibb Waters Irvine Fleming Worrell Matson Foenander Barton

Susanna BINGHAM(1804-1884) m John MUNCE (1804 - 1884)
their descendants family names: here
Jamison / Jamieson  Evans / Dunstan  Stuart Malone Stockdale Thompson Healy Leech Nielson Crawford Blackburn,Lawson Beswick Guthrie Llanf Gould Cameron Lang Craig Kaye Gullick Wickham Furze Fretwell Bugg Furze Richmond

Sarah BINGHAM m Hugh MARTIN family below
           Mary  MARTIN m TUTTLE 
    Margaret  MARTIN  mJoseph MUNTZ (1824-1886) to Aus.
            Sarah   MARTIN m JORDAN to Canada
            ..........  MARTIN m DONNAN



We have a lot of Josephs !

Joseph Munce (1742-1824)
Joseph MUNCE (1795-1893
Joseph MUNTZ (1823-1886)
Joseph MUNTZ (1827-1902)
Joseph Carson MUNTZ (1855-1828)
Joseph "Bingham" Muntz (1857-1915)
Joseph Thomas Jamison Muntz (1895-1963)
Joseph William MUNTZ (1859-1943)
Joseph William Muntz  1884-1917 
Joseph William Muntz (1920 - 1942)
Joseph Martin Muntz (1911- 1994)
-------------------------------------
click for larger photo
Joseph MUNCE  died 24 Jan 1824 aged 82 and 
Elizabeth MUNCE  died 1st Oct 1828  aged 59 years 
from headstone in Ardglass Parish, St Nicholas, Church of Ireland.
Their two sons: Joseph MUNCE  (1795-1893) and John MUNCE (1804 - 1884)  married the BINGHAM sisters,  many of whose children came to Australia in 1850s-60s  and became MUNTZ's

click for larger photo by  late Joseph Martin Muntz of Pt Lonsdale c 1956?
This is the farm house on Crew Hill,  Crew Kildare, of Joseph and Elizabeth MUNCE where the above John and Joseph MUNCE were very likely born. It is about  2 miles(?) from "Harbour View" near Killough and 1 mile(?) from  Ardglass. This farm was rented  in "1858 from a  Mr Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk " .  PRO NI. Cat Ref T 1009 (478)
Unfortunately this house has been pulled down due to a creek underneath it and a new one built to the left of this position - 2001 info from cousin Allan L Muntz whose  photos are  below!


Research of Irish Records for any mention of Munces related gave these interesting snippets:
In 1896,  Aubrey de Vere Beauclerq (sic) owned Ardglass Castle. He became bankrupt in  1907 and the Castle went to the golf club.
Below Griffiths Valuation c 1858 shows John and Joseph Munce renting farm and sheds and land from Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk in Kildares Crew, Co.Down.[N.B. there are many MUNCEs in Co Down in this period see Griffiths Valuations AIGS]

"Joseph MUNCE 1845  1847  agreement and assignment  Crew Kildare Co. Down, Cat.Ref. Hall documents D 424 (84) ( 86) . 1833 to 36 3 rentals of estate of James Trail Hall.
1847 Bernard Connor Ross. Co.Down .

*Joseph Munce  Crew Kildare Co.Down. James Neiper. Tollingrang.Co.Down.. Reassignment of lease of 4 and a half acres IPM for life. Consideration 40 pounds." PRONI.
424 86 Conveyance - Indenture
"...re 19 acres Irish  Plantation Measure more or less "Charles Albert Leslie Esquire to one John Connor since deceased .. son Barnard Connor Junior ..signed .."Barney Connor"


click for larger map

.
Map of Ireland showing Ardglass (green hill in Irish) and Killough, Co.Down,  south of Belfast on the east coast. Joseph and John Munce rented land at Crew Hill, part of Kildares Crew. The Bingham sisters came from Bishops Court.  The Killough area  once grew flax and  it was shipped to Dublin for linen making.

The only known  living Munce / Muntz relatives in Ireland c 1995  are:
M. Stewart, Marshaltown Downpatrick, Co Down,
 M.Cavan Ballyhossett, DPK,Co. Down, a  local historian.
 Margaret "Meta'  Munce's son an architect named Alex Munce born c 1945, was in Ballymena Co Antrim c 1995 - who grew up  with grandparents in Ardglass.
[The Brian and Elizabeth Hamilton connected to Stockdales who lived at Ballynoe in the 1950s. are not known to be relatives but it seems they are very  friendly to all the Muntzs from Australasia that visit them.]

Photos by Allan L. Muntz of NZ in 2001 visit to Ardglass,-
descendant of the Joseph "Bingham" Muntz  whose parents,  Capt. John Munce and Ann Cummins and a baby died in shipwreck near Calcutta.


Approach to the new house on Crew Hill, Crew Kildare- see below closer up

The new house just to the left of the original house where Joseph Munce and Elizabeth lived with their sons Joseph and John. There are some very old buildings a few hundred yards back.

View  from the front of the house on Crew Hill towards Killough - close up of this picture below


House on  Crew Hill, Crew Kildare from distance-center of panorama- close up below

 


Margarets' tower and Ardglass Harbour

.....
Ardglass harbour from opposite angles - the right is from near the Church


On a side street in Ardglass,
The Commercial Pub a 17th Century building
with low doors Allan had to stoop to get through!
+++++

Castle Street Killough, 1950's photo by
Joseph Muntz (late) of Pt Lonsdale Vic. and  below a postcard  c 1920's?

Postcard of Killough church c 1920's?



References to early Munce people in Ireland [who may or not be related to us.] from  Irish records:

William Munce 1732 RE :  Down Deanery Tithes Ballynagross Co.Down " A view book for the great Tithe of the Deanery of Down for the year 1732" PRO N.I. ref T 553/6

John Munce 30 May 1816. Belfast -re shared pew with Mrs R. Wilson 1st preesbbyterian Church congregation. List of members of 1st Presbyterian  congregation Belfast to whom pay stipend cat ref T 889/20

Joseph Munce 1845 1847 Agreements and assignment Crew Kildare Co.Down. Cat Ref. Hall documents D 424 (84) (86)
Document 424/84 is 1833 - 1836  3 rentals of James Trrail Haalll.
Document 414/86 is 6 Dec  1847 Bernard Connor. Ross Co.Down. Joseph Munce Crew Kildare Co Down James Neiper Tollingrang Co.Down. Re assignment and lease of 4 and half acres IPM [Irish Plantation Measure] for life. Consideration 40 pounds lands: Ross Co.Down.

John Munce - Farmer 1848 Ballyalgan, Killinchy Parish. Re: Anti Repeal Petition - Lord Lieutenant from Lord Dufferin's tenant 1848. Address  from Ards. Tenantry of Earl Clarendon Lord Lieutenant and Governor General of Ireland. Cat Ref D 1071A/A/12.   2 cards.

Joseph Munce 1858 John Munce 1858 Copy of rental Crews Kildare Co.Down. Re: Aubrey De Vere Beauclerk and others. 6 Feb 1858 In chancery rental and receivers report. Details of 355 tenants details of repairs and costs. cart Ref T 1009 (478)

William Munce 1865 RE William Munce - Timber merchants  Belfast (James Martin grocer to above) (Copy mortgages etc c 1865) cat Ref D 1905/2/69/7.

+++++
Another  Munce was Hanged  at Downpatrick late 1700's but I cant remember the source.

Another of many Munces in county Down who were not related to us -arrest

Killough Sailing Regatta 1893 - part of flyer  - click on it for the whole of this old document



List of County Down Deeds in 1876 for  Munce
Andrew Munce, address Saintfield, owned 13 acres.

Denis Munce, address Lisburn, owned 1 acre.

Joseph Munce, address Ballynagross, Ardglass, owned 30 acres.

William Munce, same address, owned 32 acres.


Ardglass, Church of Ireland;  St. Nicholas in Kildare St, Ardglass town;  church built 1813   storm damage 4 Nov 1848; re opened  1876; old memorial document dated 1772 ( 22 Jul 1882) [This document may give us further information ? Where is it located ?] ;  graveyard , gravestones Ulster Historical Foundation  Vol 8.



Muntz Engineers referred to in History of  John Monash [Vic]  pre WW1,

for example from
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aholgate/jm/mainpages/people1.html

Muntz, F. P., Shire Engineer, Merriang. MB-Darraweit Guim. [ near Wooedend, Vic]

Muntz, Thomas Bingham., A senior consulting engineer. Member of a large family of engineers in Victoria. Arbitrator for the Fyansford Bridge contract. Designer of the Bendigo Creek Improvement Scheme and friend of M&A. FF, BC&W, KB.
[Also  began as a shire engineer at Metcalf, near Woodend, Coode Canal, Redesdale Bridge, etc etc and Mayor of Prahran, Melbourne & father of famous artist Josephine Muntz Adams]

Muntz, William Jamison. Water resources engineer.  MABB.

[This is not all who were engineers!]



Australian place: NT
Coomalie Creek (Locality)
Coomalie

This eastern Coomalie locality is named after the stream - ‘Coomalie Creek’ running though the locality.

Previously called the West Branch of the Adelaide River, Coomalie Creek is believed to have been first recorded by Surveyor AA Briggs in 1913 when he and Surveyor Muntz where surveying the area adjacent to the Adelaide River.

[This would refer to  the son -thought to be Edwin Parnell Muntz- of Thomas Bingham Muntz who worked there when Josephine painted the marvellous outback homestead verandah with woman and child talking to Afghan trader -see "Completing the Picture" Hammond and Peers.]
[ From The Origin of the Greater Darwin area Suburb, Locality, Town and Hundred Names -  Northern Territory. http://www.lpe.nt.gov.au/place/ntplaces/greaterdwn.htm ]


Queensland  [note from the Internet: maybe in Robina?]
Lake Hugh Muntz
The waters adjacent to Barrier Reef Drive, Mermaid Waters, known as Lake Hugh Muntz.  This would probably be named after the grandfather of Geoff Muntz a member of parliament  in Queensland in the 1980s- I think? Hugh Muntz  [green tree] had only one son who had male heirs- Edward who incidentally was also a civil engineer first in Victoria at  Moe where he married,  then in Queensland .where he made the railway "tramway"  at Mosssman to get the sugar to the ships.



Charles Muntz family from Germany
I have had a request for information about this Charles Muntz who is not related to ours. Any information about his parents or descendants would be appreciated by his descendants. email

"It is thought that he was German but there is no proof... no certificates mention his place of birth or the names of his parents.
His death certificate in 1873 just says that he was age 47 and had been in the colonies of NSW for 23 years. (arriving c 1856) he could have been in another colony first.

Charles Muntz born  c1832   married 1863 Wellington NSW
                                                        Mary Anne Dixon
                           died 1879 age 47 Wellington.
He was a miner

children

Thomas C.            1865 Wellington
Wilhelmine  M.       1867 "
George F.W.          1869    "
Edward                    1870    "
Elizabeth Catherine 1871   "
Esther Amelia           1873 Hill End
Emily ellen                  1875 Hill End
Amelia H.                    1876 Hill End
Albert H.                      1878 Orange
William John                1880 Wellington



 
 

1870 - Land owners - one or more acres of land in Co. Down, Ireland, the latter part of the 1870s.

 Andrew Munce, address Saintfield, owned 13 acres.
 Denis Munce, address Lisburn, owned 1 acre.
 Joseph Munce, address Ballynagross, Ardglass,owned 30 acres.
 William Munce, same address, owned 32 acres.



1863-1864  in county Down -  Griffiths Valuation Index Extracts  - County Down-    [Griffiths Valuation lists all  the householders] from here
The full records of the Griffiths has: the townland address and householders name; the name of the person from whom the property is leased; a description of the property; the acreage and the valuation.

The valuation of Ireland was completed between the years 1847 and 1864 ..This massive project was undertaken to assess the payment of various local taxes by the people of Ireland. These taxes were linked to the value of property occupied by each tax payer. The results of the valuers' work were published in a series of over 300 volumes detailing the names of all the property occupiers (not simply owners) in Ireland and the value of their house and land.
The valuation covers the entire country: every property in Ireland was included in the valuation, with the occupier's name (as well as the name of the person to whom the occupier paid rent). The occupier would generally be the head of the household. The valuation covers not just houses, but also buildings and land of any description, and so lists every landholder and occupier who paid rates in Ireland

Some individuals appear more than once if the person occupied more than one property, usually a house and/or more than one parcel of land. The original records give extra information including the size of the plot of land and the valuation of the property.
all the munce and muntzs BUT one person can be listed more than once.

Munce          Samuel                      The Plantation                      Killyleagh                    Down
Muntz          John                         Ballyalgan                            Killyleagh                    Down
Muntz         William                     Ballywillin                             Killyleagh                    Down

Munce         Robert                      Corporation, South                 Newtownards                   Down
Munce          Thomas                     Corporation, South                Newtownards                   Down
Munn           David                        Ballycullen                             Newtownards                   Down
Munn          John                          Ballycullen                               Newtownards                   Down
Muntz         Robert                     Court Street,                          Newtownards                   Down
Muntz        Thomas                    Court Street,                          Newtownards                   Down

Munce           Joseph                 Killough                         Rathmullan                    Down
Malone           Mary Harriet  [m John Muntz]  Downpatrick Road, Killough  Rathmullan             Down      my grans mother! see

Munce         John                         Kildares Crew                     Ardglass                      Down
Munce         Joseph                        Jordans Crew                     Ardglass                      Down     ?       rels?  or the one Joseph
Munce        Joseph                        Kildares Crew                         Ardglass                      Down
Munce        Joseph                        Tullycarnan                          Ardglass                      Down          ?            rels

Munce         William                       Drumbo                                    Drumbo                        Down
Munce           Denis                         Largymore                                Blaris                        Down

Munce          Andrew                        Saintfield Parks                      Saintfield                    Down
Munce          Andrew                        Cow Market,Saintfield              Saintfield                    Down
Muntz           Andrew                        Glasdrumman                           Saintfield                    Down


Another web site shows all these results for Munce - note this give the name of the sources!!

First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
Joseph Munce Jordans Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Elizabeth Munce Kildare's Crew Ardglass 1901_Census (Ardglass Division)
John Munce Kildares Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Joseph Munce Kildares Crew Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Jo Munce Ringfad & Tullycorran Ardglass Tithes_1833
Joseph Munce Tullycarnan Ardglass Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Joseph Munce Tullycarnan Ardglass Griffith's Valuation_1863
Joseph Munce Ballynagross Upper Ballee Tithes_1833
Joseph Munce Ballynagross Upper Ballee Tithes_1833
William Munce Ballynagrosses Ballee Downe Tithes_1732_PRONI/T/553/6  map here
William Munce Ballysallagh Ballee 1901_Census (Ardglass Division)
Joseph & John Munce Kildare's Crew Ballee Tithes_1833
Denis Munce Largymore Blaris Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Jessie Munce Lisburn Bachelor's Walk Blaris 1901_Census Lisburn Division
Charles Munce Lisburn Saintfield Road Old Blaris 1901_Census Lisburn Division
James ( M.D.) Munce Hill Hall Drumbeg 1901_Census Drumbeg Division
William Munce Drumbo Drumbo Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Samuel Munce Belfast Palmerstown Road Holywood 1901_Census Belfast (Victoria Division)
James Munce Holywood Alexandra Park Holywood 1901_Census Holywood Urban Division
David Munce Carrickmannon Killinchy Tithes_1833
William Munce Ballywabben Killyleagh Tithes_1827
Samuel Munce The Plantation Killyleagh Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
James Munce Drumgiven Kilmore Tithes_1834-1836
Robert Thomas Munce Corporation North Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Munce Corporation North Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert and Thomas Munce Corporation South Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Munce Newtownards Court Street Newtownards 1901_Census Newtownards Urban Division
Robert Munce Newtownards Court Street Newtownards 1901_Census Newtownards Urban Division
Joseph Munce Killough Rathmullan Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Andrew Munce Cow Market Saintfield Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Andrew Munce Saintfield Parks Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
--------------

First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
John Muntz Ballyalgan Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
William Muntz Ballywillin Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Andrew Muntz Glasdrumman Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
------------
Thanks to Margaret - July 2006:
[in answer to my rootsweb request for info re Palatine Square  and Palatine Germans in Killough]
Robert & Thomas Munce appear in Griffith's Valuations as having 3 acres 3 roods 15 perches of land between them in Corporation South, Newtownards.
This area was mostly fields in 1863, when the Valuations were taken.
..
Also in Griffith's, I found Robert & Thomas "Muntz" in Court St.
They seem to have leased four houses there, from the Marquis of Londonderry, and sublet two of these to other people.

No10 Robert Muntz lessor L'derry house offices yard & sm garden.

No11 Thomas Muntz as above

No12 Duncan McDowell lessors Rob. & Thom. Muntz ho. off. yd. & sm. gar.

No13 William McElwain as above.

No14 Rob. & Thom. Muntz lessor L'derry upper part of store, in rear of nos. 12 & 13.

---------
[Ballynegross info early- from here   - just a few miles north of Crew Kildare - Jordans crew etc]

Ballynagross Annaclone 29: 14/39  4km SW of Annaclone village;368 acres; click here to see its location on a townland map; means ' townland of the crosses'; in 17th century it was part of Shankill; estate of General Meade in 1836 V12 p 16 OSM; PNNI V6 p 67
Ballynagross
Upper & Lower
 Ballee .  5km W of Dunsfort village; 285 & 295 acres; click here to see its location on a townland map;part sold to Adam McCutcheon in 1710 then Rev. A. Walsh in 1718 then Hugh Henry then Joshua MsGeough in 1813; & part to Downshire Estate in 1710 thenRev. Thomas Nevin then leased to Mr. Johnston; owned by Lord De Clifford; proprietor Mr Bond McGeogh, Armagh & Trinity College in 1836 ; there were 22 families needing famine relief in these townlands Aug 1847; waylaying incident 4 Dec 1852; article on townland 2 Jan 1869 V17 p 22 OSM; DR; O'L V1 p 307; FCD S2 p 25

[I have no idea what those numbers are for...]


FLAX GROWERS OF IRELAND, 1796 - County Down

 NO MUNCE OR MUNTZ'S



Ardglass Castle Ardglass . set in 28 acres; built early 15th century as a warehouse; Lord Charles Fitzgerald bought it in 1790 and rebuilt it as a castle; sold to William Ogilvie in 1806;castle owned by Beauclerk family 28 Sep 1844: & Aubrey de Vere Beauclerk in 1863; castle’s state 8 Nov 1851; improvements to castle 9 Dec 1876; Ardglass Golf Clubhouse since 1907; photo available DR; LWAG p 48,53; GV; O'L V1 p 167


A useful book! for our family ...?
"Institute of Irish Studies Publications:  Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland 1830-1840

Series editors Angélique Day and Patrick McWilliams

In the 1830s a major series of parish accounts was commissioned to accompany the new Ordnance Survey maps. These became known as the Memoirs. Only the northern part of Ireland was covered before the scheme was dropped, and only one parish Memoir was published at the time. Now, over 150 years later, the Institute of Irish Studies, the Queen's University of Belfast, in association with the Royal Irish Academy, has published the Memoirs in full to provide a unique source for the cultural heritage of our community. The 40 volumes and accompanying index act as a nineteenth-century Domesday book, and are essential to the understanding of the cultural heritage of our communities. The Memoirs record landscape, buildings and antiquities, land-holdings and population, and employment and livelihood of the parishes.

This series is presented in an attractive edition, illustrated with drawings from the parish Memoirs and maps from the original Ordnance Survey. "

Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland Volume 17: Parishes of County Down IV 1833-7, East Down & Lecale

Edited by Angélique Day and Patrick McWilliams

This volume contains the Memoirs for 15 parishes in East Down. Centres covered include Ballynahinch, Crossgar and Downpatrick, as well as the coastal towns of Ardglass, Killough, Killyleagh and Strangford. The material paints a fascinating picture of these communities, through their history and relics of antiquity, gentlemen's seats and mills, and there are extensive details of agriculture, commerce, justice and the amusements of the people. Natural history, too, is also well documented. We gain a unique insight into life in this area over one hundred and fifty years ago.

The parishes covered in this volume are: Ardglass, Ballee, Ballyculter, Ballykinler, Bright, Down, Dunsfort, Inch, Kilclief, Killyleagh, Kilmore, Loughinisland, Magheradrool, Rathmullan, Saul.

1992 24 x 17cm,146pp
ISBN 085389 439 6 Paperback £7.50
ISBN 085389 438 8 Hardback £15.00



 Hearth Money Rolls: 1664

In the years after the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland, a tax was levied on all houses with fireplaces. Each fireplace in the house (usually 1) was taxed.  The record of people who were liable for this tax became known as the Hearth Money Rolls. This record is of limited use for the family researcher but is certainly worth looking at to ascertain if your family name is listed in this document from 350 years ago.


County Down nineteenth century records: thanks to  Ros Davies  web site  here

Capt.   .   MUNCE   .   Bright   owned a fishing boat in Killough c. 1900   KCP p 25
Mr.  .  MUNCE  .  Bright  resided in Castle Street, Killough c. 1900  KCL p 25
Mr. .   MUNCE  .   Drumbo  ran a dispensary in Drumbo village in 1833 with 114 patients  V7 p 60 OSM
Mr.  .  MUNCE  .  Magheradrool  council engineer in Ballynahinch; 23 Jan 1939  DR*
.          MUNCE  .  Newtownards  a baker; took over the mill in Dundonald in 1850  TMUOP p99
Miss  Agnes  MUNCE  .  Bangor  wife of John Bryne; mother of David b. 1865  CR
Andrew  MUNCE  .  Saintfield  a butcher in 1870  POD
 David  MUNCE  .  Down  regt. Downpatrick; husband of Mary Lockhart; father of William b. 27 Feb 1866  CR
Miss  Eliza Jane  MUNCE  .  Ballyculter  regt. Strangford; wife of William Stockdale; mother of Susanna b. 1869 & Elizabeth Margaret b. 1871  CR
Miss  Elizabeth  MUNCE  .  Blaris  regt. Lisburn; wife of William Culbert; mother of Eliza Jane b. 1868  CR
Mrs. Elizabeth  MUNCE     Killyleagh  d. pre 1881; wife of Samuel; mother of Mary, Fanny, Lizzie & Jane Moorehead; buried Presbyterian graveyard  MID p 134
Mrs.  Elizabeth  MUNCE  .  Saintfield  d. 9 Feb 1889 aged 60; wife of Andrew; buried 1st Presbyterian graveyard  MIs
Mr.  J.S.  MUNCE  .  Down  engineer for Downpatrick Rural Council 4 May 1935  DR*
James  MUNCE  .  Belfast & Holywood  a civil engineer; b. 1852, son of David Munce (a clerk of works) married Margaret Beddow 1877 ; father of twins, David & James Stilwell bpt. 1878 &Agnes Margaret bpt. 1879 & Mark Lockhart bpt. 1881 at 1st Holywood Presbyterian Church  PR
. James  MUNCE  .  Kilmore  d. 19 Mar 1838 aged 75;husband of Margaret; father of Robert & Thomas of Newtownards; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard  MIs
. James  MUNCE  .   Newtownards  of Francis St, Newtownards ; a reed maker in 1846  POD
. James  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  husband of Mary Martin; father of Robert b. 4 Nov 1867 & Thomas b. 6 Oct 1869 & Thomas b. 13 Apr 1871  CR
Dr.  James  MUNCE  M.D.  Saintfield  doctor in Saintfield in 1899  POD
Miss  Jenny Lockhart  MUNCE  .  Holywood  wife of Thomas Johnston; mother of dith bpt. 1889 & Thomas bpt. 1890 at 1st Holywood Presbyterian Church  PR
.
 John  MUNCE  .   Ballee  of Ballynagross; husband of Cathrine who died 12 Sep 1811; buried Downpatrick Cathedral graveyard  MIs
Mr.  John  MUNCE  .  Ballee area  gave 6/- to Ballee Famine Relief Fund in May 1847  FCD p 24
Joseph  MUNCE  .  Ardglass  of Crew Hill; 1742-1824; husband of Elizabeth; father of Joseph & John; check Liz's site at [ ! old - muntz/muntz1.htm]
Mr.  Joseph  MUNCE  .  Ballee area  gave £1 .4.0.to Ballee Famine Relief Fund in May 1847 & 10 shillings later  FCD p 24
Joseph  MONCE  .  Ballee  in Ballyhossett; leased an office & 38 acres from Viscount Bangor in 1864  GV
Margaret  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  d. 29 Nov 1912 aged 74; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumaghlis  MIs
Miss  Martha  MUNCE  .  Comber  wife of Hamilton Patton ; mother of johnb. 1869 & David b. 1874  CR
 Martha  MUNCE  .  Down  of Irish St, Downpatrick; a china, glass & earthenware dealer in 1824  POD
.
Martha MINCE  .  Down  left a will in 1833; executor was John Kowan of Downpatrick  IIW # 46436
Newel  MUNCE  .  Bright  regt. Killough; husband of Elizabeth McDowell; father of Margaret Bingham Munce b. 6 Mar 1869 & Elizabeth b. 2 Jul 1870; attended politcal meeting in Ardglass in support of Capt. Ker M.P, 14 Nov 1885 ; re-appointed as select vestryman at Killough Church of Ireland 2 Apr 1877  CR; DR*; LM 2002 p 45
.  Robert  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  of Mill St. Newtownards; a corn merchant in 1846  POD
.
Robert & Thomas MUNCE  .  Newtownards  of Court St, Newtownards; leased a store in upper part rear of #12 & 13 & in Corporation South ; leased 3 acres in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry  GV
.
Robert
 MUNTZ  .  Newtownards  of Court St, Newtownards; leased a house , yard & small garden in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry  GV
.  Robert  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  husband of Margaret Moore; father of James b. 22 Apr 1868  CR
.  Robert  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  husband of Anna Pinnins; father of Sarah b. 28 Jun 1870  CR
.  Robert  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  died 16 Jan 1882 aged 78; uncle of Robert; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumaghlis  MIs
.  Robert  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  died 14 Jul 1913 aged 74; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumaghlis  MIs
.
 Samuel  MUNCE  .   Killyleagh  died 1881 aged 70; husband of Elizabeth; father of Mary, Fanny, Lizzie, Jane; buried Presbyterian graveyard; for 31 years he was a steward to Capt. & Mrs. Rowan Hamilton  MID p 134
Miss.  Sarah  MUNCE     Newtownards  eldest surviving daughter of Robert Munce of Court Street; married Nathaniel K. Smyth of Carlow 7 Feb 1895 at Regent Street Presbyterian by Rev. James Salter  BWN
Miss  Susanna  MUNCE or MUNN  .  Knockbreda  regt. Castlereagh; wife of William John Skillen; mother of Jane b. 1869 & Alice b. 1874  CR

Thomas B.  MUNCE  .  formerly Co. Down  success in Victoria, Australia 7 Dec 1861  DR [ Thomas Binhgam Muntz ]
Thomas  MUNCE  .  Holywood  husband of Margaret McKinlay; father of Elizabeth b. 8 May 1868  CR
.
Thomas  MUNTZ  .  Newtownards  of Court St, Newtownards; leased a house , yard & small garden in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry , next door to Robert Muntz; they then leased out 2 cottages  GV
Thomas  MUNCE  .  Newtownards  died 9 Apr 1885 aged 79; husband of Mary A. who d. 28 Sep 1842 aged 27; son of James & Margaret;father of James who d. 8 Mar 1861 aged 21; buried Kilmore Presbyterian graveyard, Drumgahlis  MIs
 William James  MUNCE  .  Down  of Grangiecam; will probated 31 Mar 1855  IIW # 48870
 Rev.  William James S.  MUNCE  D.D.  Tullylish  rector of the parish 1891- 1894


From CAORA   http://www.caora.net/ surname search of Full Griffith's Valuation details for County Down.
1863/4 when  most of our ancestors were in Australia.
MUNTZ
First Name Surname Townland Parish Record Source
John Muntz Ballyalgan Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
William Muntz Ballywillin Killyleagh Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Robert Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Thomas Muntz Newtownards Town - South Street Newtownards Griffith_Valuation_1863
Andrew Muntz Glasdrumman Saintfield Griffiths_Valuation_1863/4



1823 -Barony of Lecale shows  Joseph Munce resides Crew Kildare freehold landlord Lord Charles Fizgerald and names of other tennants CREY and son
Place and date of Registry  Downpatrick 1st April 1823 -cut off by me -impossible to catch the picture off thier proni web  an other way-



 Griffiths Valuation 1861-62 of Co.Antrim--by Parish - LISBURN TOWN

MUNTZ Denis Bow Street,(Old Warren) Lisburn Blaris



more snippits re MUNCE in Downpatrick - not know to be realted to our family.... source unknown ..
Thomas Munce, of Irish Street, Downpatrick, wheelwright
who died August 1797, aged 47 was married  to Martha Robinson,
who died 1831 13 February, aged 84
they had 3 daughters married  to :
David Thomas , 1817 16 November
John McKittrick  ,married 1830 24 November
Thomas Saul 1835 November 17
 more information .


Snippet : Elizabeth Munce MI  Saintfield First Presbyterian Graveyard, Gravestone Inscriptions:
Morrow In memory of John Morrow of Saintfield who died  10 Dec 1846  aged 59 years. Also his wife Annie who died  25 Dec 1860  aged 73 years. Also their daughter Isabella who died  22 Jul 1842  aged 16 years. Also Eliza, wife of William Morrow, who died  05 Dec 1862. Also Annie Morrow, daughter of Wm. Spence, who died  06 Feb 1870  aged 3 years. Also his daughter Mary who died  09 Feb 1884. Also the remains of my beloved wife Elizabeth Munce who departed this life  09 Feb 1889  aged 60 years. Andrew Munce. Also Annie Brown Gourley died  08 Oct 1902.


EDITORIAL NOTES
LIST - I have a list of all Muntz's in Australia and New Zealand for family use from family records and phone books.
This has their initials or full names and relationships where I know this, and addresses sorted by state in the public domain. This will get full names and relationships when I get more information so I can sort it out. For a copy of this file  please email me and tell me where you fit in our family.

New  Zealand:
we have  a lot of Cousins  there but  this is not one :Muntz, Charles Adolphus, 1834-1908, Britain New Zealand, nor is John Muntz music teacher.
2006 The music teacher that we don't have any association with, ended up changing his spelling to Munns and died about 4-5 years back.
2006 - Another Muntz in NZ - not related, living in Mataura.  He came from Western Australia.   His father went there  from Holland.



More children will be added to this Internet tree as time permits- I have mainly put in  males after the first generation in Australia as the full tree goes into the thousands.
All the ones with surname MUNCE stayed in Ireland.

If any of  this family or other Muntz's have a web page it could be linked in here! Please let me know or any.
Corrections with sources &/ or more or  better pictures to  Liz in Melbourne -email

Updated Jan 2007
Up  since 16 July 1998

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