1. Possibility of Telepathy
2. Last additions
3. Neurosis
4. Personal
5. Posted in bionet
6. The rest of the threads

Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science
can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the
category of superstition, though a very extended one. Most people have
lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience
that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication; on the
other extreme there is the people who actually hear voices
continuously and who we consider `mentally ill`, or shizophrenics. Of
coursse there are serious teams around the world applying the
scientific method to the study of telepathy, with aparently little
results, though it is rumored that the military complex has also
performed research on the matter, with results being, of course,
classified.


People usually resort to mystic beliefs to explain telepathy, while it
is argued that there is no physical support for it. I believe
otherwise. Brains are composed of interconnected `simple` information
processors that use and generate electric fields to propagate their
signals. The resultant field is so powerful that we can even measure
it *through* the crain to obtain an EEG. The measured signal is
however quite undifferentiated, even though we know there is an
underlying order to it. On the other hand we know that electric fields
do have an effect over other fields... If we live in a continuous
reality we can safely assume that a given signal will diminish
continuously over time, evetually integrating in the background noise
but without losing its caracteristics. It simply becomes too weak to
be distinguishable, though it will affect the whole electric field
that surrounds us.


So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power
to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the
signals of other brains? We certainly go through life without
listening to others thoughts, but this may well be a learned
(evolutively or environmentally) response, maybe brough about by the
developmentof language. Sound is certainly a better, more reliable
information carrier than weak electric field interactions and so we
rely on it, but it is possible given the plasticity of the brain that
under certain circumstances groups of neurons `learn` to accept and
interpret this interactions and give them `meaning`, for instance, if
the individual is gradually losing aural acuity. It is even possible
to speculate on the organizaion of `resonator groups`, groups of
neurons that learn to fire when certain (analogous) signals affect the
brain`s field. This ability may well be the cause of the development
of certain forms of schizophrenia, like those that develop late in an
individual`s life, though it wouldn`t explain all schizophrenic cases.
We can even speculate that certain forms of schizophrenia become a
problem due to the `storm` of thoughts received and the inability of
the individual to deal with the new source of information. In fact,
many individuals may actually enjoy the benefits of telepathy without
suffering the ill consequences of schizophrenia because they are able
to process the increased quantity of information received through this
channel. I doubt telepaths would be anxious to tell the whole world
that they hear voices (sort of a secret society...), though many
psychics and entertainers around the world give this kind of shows.


The relation between the strength of the signals and the necessary
computing power to interpret and whether the brain can provide it is
amenable tom formal calculus. It may well be that Earth`s electric
field is more charged with meaning than what we usually think...

> There's also the little issue of power: the human brain
> is reputed (and AFAICT it's a good estimate) to use 19%
> of the 125W or so of a healthy adult young male's power.
> (The value is more normally expressed in the units
> 'kilocalories/day':
> (125 Watts) / (1 (kcal / day)) = 2 581.26195
> )
> 19% * 125W = 23.75W.



The signal must be very weak, though a trained brain, i.e., a brain
using the `unused` capacity should be able to generate stronger
signals. But even the weakest signal, in a totally continuous Reality
(infinite within) can be distinguished from the rest of the signals
(noise), given enough computing power. So power is not an issue,
though propagation certainly takes time; in a sense no signal is ever
lost, only becomes infinitely weak as time passes.


> This wouldn't be too hard to detect were it broadcast
> in a standard carrier wave from a considerable distance
> (with a conventional dish antenna), but it's far from
> clear how the human brain could receive such a signal.


I envision something akin to the magnetization of iron by a strong
magnetic field, though I am interested in the computing power needed
vs the strength of the 


signal.
> The brain is also not a particularly organized transmitter;
> one can contemplate a human brain as consisting as a large
> number of minute spark gaps.


Those sparks are actually spread at least in two dimensions; I
_assume_ they would radiate like `ripples` in the surrounding
electromagnetic field, much like sound does, though I am not an expert
in this kind of phenomena.


> It is barely possible to contemplate a pair of "tuned
> brains" right next to each other sharing a thought, but
> that's about as far as telepathy can go; the brain cell
> that has the right frequency to broadcast "Aaah, pizza's
> coming" in brain 1 might be received by brain 2 as "Oh oh,
> my foot's being invaded by space aliens" for all I know.


Except there is a point in common which is language...


> (And that's assuming a single brain cell is responsible
> for that thought; my guess is that the thought "Aaah,
> pizza's coming" involves the synchronized firing in a
> certain sequence of various neurons 


The signal is certainly temporal, a series of activation patterns
`radiating` outwards toward infinity (?), or modifying by their simple
existence the whole state-of-the-world of the electromagnetic fields
surrounding us...


>including those in
> the smell/taste region of the brain, the thought that the
> delivery man came up in a truck (hearing), and perhaps
> the logo and/or general shape of the pizza (visual).
> With that hypothesis the receiver's firing pattern will be
> hopelessly scrambled; the rest of the brain will probably
> discard the signal as random noise.)


Even though specialized sensory brain centers may be involved in one
thought we can at least assume there is a common mapping among
individuals when it comes to language so that is the only part of the
signal we need to take into account, and very likely the structure of
the activations for any word or phrase should be roughly similar from
brain to brain; if this is true we would transmit and _receive_
thoughts only in the language or languages we actually practice, and
both the beginning and ending of the signals would be blurred until
there is a match between the pattern of the signal received and the
set of neurones trained to distingush the signal. Since spoken
language is composed of characteristic sounds, some words would be
easily transmited and received, while others would be hardly
distinguished. I suppose a trained brain would develop resonator and
amplifier clusters whith activation paterns deepening with practice,
specialized in `tuning` basic (phoneme? morpheme?) patterns before
sending them to the `language understanding` centers. I imagine these
centers analogically, like kind of key-keyhole pairs.

But this is going too far already. The issue is whether a brain can
dedicate and does have the computing power in terms of activations to
process the signals given that they must be very weak.

> But this is going too far already. The issue is whether a brain can
> dedicate and does have the computing power in terms of activations to
> process the signals given that they must be very weak.


Assuming a human brain has enough computing power to `analogically`
process the influence on its own activity of the signals emitted from
other brains, and the existence of areas devoted to receive and
process those signals, that telepathic reception would be far more
potent when a) there`s people around and b) the individual is in a
closed environment.

In case a) the weak signals can `resonate` among brains, for the most
part unconsciously, to generate a stronger signal more easily
transmitted. This is equivalent to say that the fields of electric
activity of each individual`s brain get `aligned`, gnerating a
stronger signal. This stronger signal would be the sum of the original
`ambient` content of information and the results of the processing by
the brain. The more sensitive individual would experiment the net
result as a perceived sound or as an idea. This kind of phenomena may
lie behind the usual `coincidences` when two persons start talking at
the same time and say the same phrase (notwithstanding other
psychological or situational explanations), particularly after a few
minutes of keeping silence (how many would-be lovers end long
embarrasing silences this way?). In other words, people would act like
anthenas. This hypothesis may point to modifications in current
parapsychological experimentation.


As for b), closed environments would isolate many random disturbances,
makin it easier for the brain to process the modulation in the signal,
both in the case of direct electromagnetic perturbances as in the case
of other sensorial extractions.

Is it possible to prove telepathy exists? I believe not, unless
telepaths want to show it possible. A good experiment would involve
the coordination of spatially distanced individuals, making some noise
after a command is given telepathically. For instance: `All telepaths
say ok!` And then hearing lots of oks... The probability of many
people saying ok at the same time without coordinatio is so small that
it would prove the phenomenon beyond doubt, but it would need
cooperation, very difficult to obtain given the inclination of humans
to persecute whatever exceeds the normal capabilities of an
individual.


As to the evolution of telepathy, seen as a problem of computing power
against strength of signals it is very likely it can only be observed
in humans and maybe some big brained animals, like elephants and
dolphins. If corroborating telepathy in humans is a difficult problem,
doing so in other species looks like an impossible problem. It has to
be observed here that many problems of synchronization that are
popularly presented as evidence of animal telepathy are actually the
expression of global effects of local rules, like the ordering of
animals in flocks.


What should be evident is that, as a communication channel, it has
very low advantages over hearing, for instance, as it has no obvious
spatial relationship. If proximity were an element, it would be
superseded by hearing and sight, so it wouldn`t develop. And as a
remote sense, since it would be impossible to know the source, and
what`s more, to know whether the messages are tru or false, a lead or
a mislead, the information content would tend toward zero.


At most it is a phenomenon that develops as a side effect of brain
size, if at all. (To be honest, I was expecting somebody to offer the
calculus). But if it exists, then schizophrenia would acquire a new
meaning, as the neurosis of people who didn`t learn how to integrate
their disembodied messages with everyday life.


> what`s more, to know whether the messages are tru or false, a lead or
> a mislead, the information content would tend toward zero.


Imagine a telepathic individual who identifies signals meant for him
(people thinking of him), and he suddenly goes famous, lots of people
think of him. He not only would receive lots of messages but also,
given human`s inclination to jealousy, many evil thoughts. That
individual would experiment a cacophony, that may leave him unable to
cope with everyday affairs, a severe schizophrenia. This hypothesis
can be tested. Severe shizophrenics must be well known in their
communities, while mild schizophrenics would be almost unknown and
lonely individuals. I think of the moovie picture `A Beautiful Mind`.
This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It can
be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.


Michael Gray  wrote in message ...

> On 2 Oct 2004 11:44:39 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J.
> Bonsignore) wrote:


> >fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) wrote in message ...
(snip)
> >individual would experiment a cacophony, that may leave him unable to
> >cope with everyday affairs, a severe schizophrenia. This hypothesis
> >can be tested. Severe shizophrenics must be well known in their
> >communities, while mild schizophrenics would be almost unknown and
> >lonely individuals. I think of the moovie picture `A Beautiful Mind`.

> The test would need to separate cause from effect.
> The schizophrenics that I know all displayed schizophrenic tendencies
> before they became well known.
> Their fame/infamy was mostly due to to their bizarre behaviour.


> Schizophrenia leads to being well known.



This is really very interesting. Seeing the problem mechanically, we
would indeed be interested in causes and effects. But the hypothesis
is not that becoming well known is the cause of schizophrenia, only
that both circumstances occur simultaneously.

At some point there must be an innate or induced (drugs as triggers of
telepathy) telepathic ability. IF, from the outset, due to education,
character or innate (IQ) factors, the individual is _not_ able to cope
with telepathy, we would exhibit bizarre behaviour. Then he is well
known. Then his behaviour is even more bizarre. Etc. A classical
example of positive feedback, the system reinforces itself until the
individual`s behaviour is so bizarre that he can no longer live in a
social environment. He is excluded from society. Eventually as he is
forgotten (family size would be another factor: the more relatives
worried, the less the telepathic individual`s opportunty to recover,
[unless he learns to separate both sources of informatio, telepathy
and everyday life]), schizophrenia would diminish, making the
individual more `adapted to reality`.


What would be needed is a good numeric indicator (maybe a scale? would
be less effective as would involve human judgement) to relate both
factors, severity and social life (distinguishing now between society
in general and family).


Note that a particular individual may be `tuned` to other telepaths
*outside* of his immediate social circle, so there could be an
unaccounted residue, maybe from the very start of the adaptation
process. Because once started it becomes a process to which the
individual must adapt.



> How would you eliminate this factor from any tests?


It would recquire a more elaborate correlation model, a dynamic one,
taking into account the story of the individual. I don`t know if
clinic notes are complete enough to be useful as input to this dynamic
models. I do assume that initial correlations must be strong enough to
warrant more careful testing with volunteers (no medication, early
detection/treatment/studies, social deprivation, for different age
brackets).

And the models must contain at least age, social interaction, family
size and drug use as variables.



> >This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
> >schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It can
> >be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.

> That makes the wild leaping assumption that there is such a thing,
> well before it has even been sufficiently established, let alone
> proven.



The fact is that alternative therapies using this hypothesis as thir
basis, if successful, would support the statistical correlation
method. Both research lines can be followed concurrently and reinforce
each other.

Note too that the *content* of the voices may acquire a new meaning
and lead to new testable hypothesis if seen as communication (signal)
rather than as noise.


Note that successful telepaths (non schizophrenic or `normal`)
behaviour, have or may have reasons *NOT* to reveal their ability,
particularly given the possibility of being confused with
schizophrenics. And also note that telepaths may experience several
dangers, like, for instance, find themselves in the possession of
classified information from government agencies.


Hypothesis: successful telepaths find a field of action in the army,
the secret services and diplomatic missions (like the United Nations).


Do you know if there are any medications that can be administered to
schizophrenics and that are *undetectable* unless you knyou are being
adimistered a doses? (no favor...) New York would be an excellent
place to use those drugs if undetected...


Also, about telepathic ability triggers, it may well be that extreme
circumstances can enhance the innate ability to commune/perceive
thoughts. It would provide a certain survival advantage, particularly
while the human brain was evolving subjected to the pressures of
social interaction and the development of the faculty (how to call
it?) to murder.


A candidate substance would be adrenaline. It may well be that
sporting types may develop telepathy. There should be a correlation
too between exercising as a constant practice and schizophrenics. A
good percentage of schizophrenics were also good athletes. And,
supposing that there is an inverse correlation between intelligence
and the propensity to do sports (nothing indicates it should be so, it
would have no survival advantage, on the contrary, though the practice
of sports definitely competes in term of time with the development of
the `brain muscle`), the reason they develop schizophrenic is because
they lack the necessary intellectual tools to cope with the new
information (like, for instance, dwelling in endless arguments without
sense).


Of course, once the correlations begin showing, successful telepaths
would have an incentive to accept their ability without being
stigmatized (and `incarcerated`) as schizophrenics or people having
mental health issues...


Since signals must be weak and difficult to distinguish from noise, or
in other words, since noise is always present (composed from the sum
total of signals of all emissors) and signals are comparatively brief
and burst-like, the brain must be able to ignore the noise while being
receptive of signals. Resonators would have this capacity to
`resonate` or be triggered the moment noise matches the patterns gor
which it has been formed. It must be very difficult to receive and
interpret random signals, these must match in some form what the brain
already expects. Except for very strong broadcastings, pure thought
reading must be nearly impossible unless it is formulated in a form
that is already mapped by the resonators. Language, visions, emotions
would share this characteristic; also particular thoughts directed
*at* the individual would be relatively easy to pick up. The same way
doves and other birds are able to orient themselves in the magnetic
field of earth, as if they had an absolute positioning system, signals
may contain within themselves the information needed to distinguish an
individual or a group of inividuals. This is equivalent to the
hypothesis that even if we are not aware of it, our sense of position
in the world, and at least the notion of particular other individuals
is present in our brains in a distinguishable way. Should this
hypothesis be true, based on the computing power of the brain to
distinguish arbitrarily small signal to noise ratios, our uniqueness
as individuals can be expressed in a unique way by our thoughts, while
at the sme time we can be aware of our position in relation to other
individuals. We can identify individuals uniquely simply by thinking
of them, and once a link is established (a particular signal pattern
has been matched and anticipated) a connection may be permanent and
sef reinforcing in terms of plasticity of neural activations This
would explain why schizophrenics (who can be een as unadapated
telepaths at least for those individuals who do not contain real brain
damage [dificult to explain, besides, as it woud mean a set of nerons
clamped in perpetual self-activation, though with enough variation as
to simulate whoe strains of converstaion, hardly the product of a
truly damaged mind {multiple personalities, possible by partitioning
if the brain, usually are unaware of each other}], engage in long
conversations, which would mean a link has been established and
reinforced. Notie that according to the assumptios, the thoughts
(signals) exchanged must be recognizable by the receptive individual:
foreign languages, unknown words, notions, concepts and ideas would be
difficult to commuicate through this medium. This can be gurther
refined in terms of particular architectures of neural activation...


The Ghost In The Machine  wrote in message ...


> In sci.physics, Morituri-Max

> 
> wrote
> on Sat, 06 Nov 2004 05:39:41 GMT

> :
> > mike3 wrote:

> >> So then why not research it, to prove/disprove it's existence? Now THAT's
> >> what I call science. Or has it already been disproven conclusively?


> > Why not research whether a blue shirt with green stripes scares away striped 
> > pink elephants better than a red shirt with yellow stripes?


> And here I thought it was striped tigers and finger-snapping.
> Hey, it's worked for decades here... :-)


> Personally, I think ESP is a bit bunkish, if only because the
> brain only has about the power of a 20-25 W broadcaster, and
> is a very poor radio receiver



What counts is the computing power to process the signal, and the
possibility of the brain of acting like a 


receiver.
> unless augmented by what
> happens to be a variant of a galena crystal 


Interesting, some substances may have the same effect in the brain,
and there special receptors...


>(e.g., a
> filling might rectify a strong radio signal nearby, and
> maybe cause the owner thereof to hear music).

> There's also no carrier wave to throw at a diode or FM discriminator.
> I suppose one might hear a lot of popping noises (the
> neurons conducting the signals are after all a sort of
> small radio antenna) if the gain's turned up enough.



Can the gain be turned up by `digital` processing? We have plenty of
processing in the interconnected network of the brain (the
hypothesis).


> I could see a "bed of nails" attached to the visual cortex,
> but that's about it; the effects would be interesting but
> it would probably require quite a bit of research before we
> can even hope to replace the computer monitor and speaker system... :-)


Sure, but it depends on how much money we throw at it, too...


> One issue at mass ESP screenings, though. A common test is the
> 5x5 card test: star, circle, wavy lines, square, and cross are
> (IIRC) the traditional ones, and there are 5 of each. The
> expected number of hits given pure chance is 5, but there is
> a well-defined probability curve for fewer and for more hits,
> during the experiment. Suppose we filter out those who hit more
> than the average for further testing -- "oops, it's vanished, such
> a random ability, this ESP, it only happens when we're not looking
> for it"...



Yes, but then I envision correlations, not probability distributions
(see Schizophrenia as neurosis)


Les Cargill  wrote in message ...


> mike3 wrote:


> > "robert j. kolker"  wrote in message
> > news:2v2girF2fu9glU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >>Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote:



> >>>Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science
> >>>can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the
> >>>category of superstition,
> >>And for good reason. No one has ever proven there is such a phenomenon.


> >>Bob Kolker


> > And if it does exist, and somebody tries to prove it, they'll be blasted


> > into oblivion. No wonder no-one has, 'cause they aren't ALLOWED to!!!!!!!
> > What if some top scientists decided to conduct in-depth research into the
> > phenomenon to once and for all prove/disprove it's existence and settle
> > the matter? Essentially you are saying that if something isn't proven then


> > it
> > can't be researched -- but science is about attempting to find proof or
> > disproof of something. That's not advancement -- that's stonewalling.

> (Gad, this thing is crossposted to hell and back, but...)


> The problem is that there is no possible communications medium
> for these signals to be written on. It sorta points back to
> the Luminiferous Aether, which was embarassingly deprecated
> in what, 1930? 1906? (too lazy to look it up) by Michelson/Morley.


> There was a historical move to prove the Great Beyond,
> beginning about the time when people missed those lost in
> the Civil War (dunno why Europe followed),
> which is still sorta with us. All attempts to measure it or
> exploit it resolve to embarassment for the participants.


> Since the Universe has a sense of humor, we cannot
> categorically prove a negative. So any hypothesis
> founded on A Miraculous Finding is doomed in
> resonable discussion, unless you show lab measurements
> hinting to the immeasurable. *Dis*proof is an
> infite series of windmills, barring contradiction of
> something relativelty non-fundamental. We have remarkably
> good and comprehensive fundamentals.


> Rail as you will, the skepctics won.



Well, radio waves do move through the `aether`. Though EEG waves are
between 1H and 50Hz, they *do* have an impact on Reality (cause and
effect), they can be detected THROUGH hard bone and hair. And given
that neurons are couted by billions and their *interconnections* are
an even bigger magnitude, and given that networks of neural computers
are universal computers (can comute any computable function), it all
boils down to how much computing power we need to to distinguish this
minimum, arbitrarily small effect of brain waves in the surrounding
electromagnetic spectrum to be able to make a match (mapping) against
the millions or more neurons that can process that really small signal
and turn it into meaningful messages.


mike4...@yahoo.com (mike3) wrote in message ...


> Sam Wormley  wrote in message ...
> > Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote:
> > > Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science
> > > can offer no explanation...

> >    Telepathy is considered bogus. Double blind studies show NO evidence
> >    of such an effect.



> >    http://www.csicop.org/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi?q=telepathy
> >    http://www.csicop.org/skeptiseum/Psychics.html

> So the studies have shown everything to be equal to chance -- which
> means that it's okay to do mor experiments and you won't be stopped --
> but you'll probably just get more of the same result -- equal to
> chance.



You are talking basic experiments of card reading and forecasting. I
am talking full fledged telepathy as possible due to the computing
processing of the brain, some basic brain chemistry and working facts
and observation of schizophrenics and other people in real life
situations. But remember that as people don't like to expose the
amount of money they have in the banl, willful volunteers to telepathy
experiments very probably want to deceive themselves as to having such
'power' more than show ther actual ability, while unsuccessful
telepaths very probably are suffering their lack of control and
showing the signs of what we usually call schizophrenia, though I have
made several interesting observations in real life in homeless
shelters... To prove this ability we need to take into account social
and psychological behaviour. But the theory is sound.

> No theory is sound until it makes testable quantitative predictions 
> which are supported by experiment. All attempts to establish the 
> existence of telephath as a phenomenon have failed. The is no 
> experimental evidence (worth anything) that such a thing even exists. 
> What you have are Uri Geller tricks all of which can be reproduced by 
> James Randi who will tell you up front what he is doing is bogus trickery.



Problem here is that the experiments deal with people. It is like
trying to prove the existence of a secret society and quantify their
actions. But maybe you haven`t read the thread Schizophrenia as
neurosis.

The problem here is that we may not be able to distinguish the
information content from random noise, as we don`t know the form the
signal takes, thatis, we don`t know the brain activation patters code.
That is why I opted to approach it as computing power against signal
to noise ratio. The channel and the specific code are irrelevant as
long as we can show there is enough power to distinguish even very
small (lots of noise) signals. Do we have instruments sensitive enough
to gauge the effect of a dolphin`s brain effect on surrounding
electromagnetic fields? And it may be that the channel is not
electromagnetic at all, but as long as the computing power is enough
there is the possibiity of te phenomenon.


> 4. If, after a lot of rigorous testing, this is found most of the
> time, and
>    is not attributable to anything known about dolphins, then we've
> found a
>    new effect. If so, then it probably doesn't exist. Further tests
> would
>    probably seem to confirm this -- and thus people should be free
>    to do them.


This makes me remember an old legend about camels speaking... maybe we
need a different approach to test telepathy among `irrational` beings.

Yet there is a danger in telepathy: synchronization. As clinical
schizophrenia can be considered a form of neurosis or misadaptation of
true telepaths unable to mix immediate input with telepathic input,
ignorance and a lack of intellectual tools can lead to `weak` minds
being `directed` or, more graphically, sucked, by a stronger,
morepared and sophisticated mind. This can explain the phenomenon of
sects and mass suicides. Adepts, either through drugs or rituals
(deprivation, extreme situations), get opened to the ideology of the
leader and repetition of ide and thoughts lead the minds to become
synchronized. This can be explained and justified through the
mechanical statistics concept of magnetized fields if we consider that
brains are, y analogy, biological magnets.


Once minds are synchronized and subjected to the more sophisticate,
elaborate verbal construction of the leader and his/her goals,
individuals lose individuality and become more like members of an
anthill. For a human is a tragedy. It would be very difficult to know
whether mass suicides occur because the leader orders it or because
the situation is unbearable, though it can be observed that mass
suicides occur in small sects, small groups, not in big groups, and
also among ignorant people. Even without the hypothesis of total
telepathy, the sharing of an ideology can have the same effects.


This phenomenon can be contrarrested through education. A society of
wll educated and intellecutally oriented telepaths would not be prone
to the effect of synchronization, as each mind would be strong enough
to contrarrest the monothinking, a reason why religions mistrust
intelligence and individualistic education. Reading is essential.


This phenomenon may be known by governments and kept as many secrets
are kept. It would also explain the ferocity with which sects are
persecuted, as the loss of individuality is a very serious threat to
the individual`s survival. This event may be one of the real causes of
psychosis: the individual loses touch with reality because he is
synchronized to events occurring someplace else, therefore the context
of actions and words is missing. There *is* a single Reality, but the
individual is reacting to a subset of reality beyond its immediate
self, like somebody preparing for a tornado happening on the other
side of the world.


The fact is that if drugs are triggers of telepathy (as schizophrenia
is assumed to be oneof the results of drugs, except perhaps cocaine,
which seems to be totally harmful and other chemical drugs that affect
the levels of serotonin), the prohibition of drugs is in esscence and
ultimately a form of repression, as this ban prohibits humans from
developing another level of communication. In fact, the ban is a
danger, since it is broken by very poor people, criminals and very
rich people, leaving the middle classes, the `decent` people, out of
the conversation. This fact may be the single reason of the
debilitating effects of schizophrenia, as the conversations would have
little or no point of contact and be performed by people of very low
culture. This should be obvious from the discussion of the thread for
those who have been following this thread since its inception in 2002.

You can use tobit models.


Not the field, but some signals. EEG does prove that there is such an
electromagnetic field. The connectionist system of the brain can be
modeled in such way.


> And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists,
> somehow justified?


There are meaningful coincidences. And I guess true telepaths if they
exist wouldn`t publish it openly. People used to be burned alive just
for having black cats...


> Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules
> applying to the propogation of electromagnetic radiation.
> Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and
> travelling no faster than the speed of light.


Precisely. The question is whether the brain has enough computing
power to separate a diminishing signal from background noise.


> Oh, yes. I nearly forgot.
> The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way.


Again, I guess telepaths wouldn`t give away their advantage. And many
magicians may use telepathy and let people believe it is just a trick.
There is people who tune `radio station` with their fillings...


> So far, it has not done any of the above.
`it`, what?
> In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does
> not exist at all.
> A truly excellent job.


Secret societies usually do an excellent job. 


Michael Gray  wrote in message ...


> On 3 Aug 2004 09:49:54 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J.
> Bonsignore) wrote:

> >> Am I correct in my assumption that you are re-proposing the the old
> >> concept of the human brain radiating an electromagnetic field, can be
> >> detected by other human brains?
> >> And you give as "potential" support for this detection, EEGs, which do
> >> not detect EM radiation, but electrostatic voltages?

> >Not the field, but some signals. EEG does prove that there is such an
> >electromagnetic field. 


> EEG does *NOT* prove that there is an electromagnetic field.
> If you are going to pontificate on such matters, get educated about
> them first.
> EEG only monitors electric potentials.



No deep knowledge, indeed, but we can detect electric activity even
without perforating the skull, and that`s my point.


> >The connectionist system of the brain can be
> >modeled in such way.
> I know of no such model.
> I know of models that are based on varying electric potential
> gradients, but none that rely on electromagnetic fields, or
> "radiation" as you originally put it.
> Could you please point to me a scientifically valid "connectionist"
> model of the brain that is based on electromagnetic fields.
> (Vis "photon exchange")


Some models can be analyzed in their dynamics (learning), from the
point of view of statistical mechanics, as a field being magnetized.
The Hopfield model, for instance.


> >> And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists,
> >> somehow justified?


This what?


> >There are meaningful coincidences. And I guess true telepaths if they
> >exist wouldn`t publish it openly. People used to be burned alive just
> >for having black cats...

> You're not seriously suggesting that EVERY single person who has this
> hidden but truly Earth-Shattering power, which if revealed, could make
> them master of the universe, and get them enough money to hire a large
> private army to protect them, don't do so because of a few apocryphal
> witch burnings hundreds of years ago?
> EVERY SINGLE one of them, in all of recorded history!?!



There is competition if there`s more than one; there should be
differences in power (ability) too. Are you sure those in power who
ACTUALLY got enough money and sorrounded themselves with an army
didn`t had (have) this truly Earth-Shattering power?


> Now that's either very funny, or so implausible that I cannot accept
> it.
> If *I* had the demonstrable power of telepathy, I would immediately
> grab Randi's million bucks, hire a few bodyguards, and live it up!
> So would any sane person.


And would you go about and publicize the fact to the whole world?
Particularly when telepathy is equivalent to hearing voices nad *that*
is equivalent to mental illness.


> >> Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules
> >> applying to the propogation of electromagnetic radiation.
> >> Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and
> >> travelling no faster than the speed of light.

> >Precisely. The question is whether the brain has enough computing
> >power to separate a diminishing signal from background noise.


> Good point.
> And one that has been researched thoroughly
> And so far failed to manifest anything.



Do you have the figures? 


> Of course there are many other phenomena that an EM signal should obey
> as well, such as being able to be blocked by an appropriate Faraday
> cage, etc etc.


Interesting...


> >> Oh, yes. I nearly forgot.
> >> The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way.

> >Again, I guess telepaths wouldn`t give away their advantage. And many
> >magicians may use telepathy and let people believe it is just a trick.
> >There is people who tune `radio station` with their fillings...


> Once again, you provide an utterly irrelevant example, which is
> supposed to support your proposition, but does nothing but show to me
> that your case is non-existent, if that's the best answer you can
> give.



Why irrelevant? Which example? 


> And for your: 

> "telepath's wouldn't give away their advantage."????!!!??
> What "advantage"?


Maybe the ability to know the black wizard wants to kill them... ;)

> The advantage to supply vapid answers to non-questions?
?
> The advantage to be able to predict distasters, but not until after
> they happen?


Volcanoes are telepathic!?!

> The advantage to live in a trailer park for the rest of their lives?
Please explain.
> Any sane telepathist would ditch those advantages in a second.
Please explain.
> And what would you say of the magician that uses telepathy in front of
> a small audience in a dingy dive in Encino every night, in order to be
> able to pay the rent on his 2 room flat, and have his mother dying of
> a curable disease because he can't afford the operation?


Maybe he is using a trick... or doesn`t have enough computing
capacity...


> Doesn't he know about Randi's challenge?
> When next you see one of these "many" magicians, it is your duty to
> let them know that he can have $1 million, in a flash!
> Why can't these people use their telepathy to discover this fact?


No idea about the challenge. Is it really suitable to what telepahy
might actually do or is based on the assumptin of a fantastic sf
power?


> Are they *all* terminally thick?
?! 
> >> So far, it has not done any of the above.
> >`it`, what?
> 'it' = Telepathy.
> >> In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does
> >> not exist at all.
> >> A truly excellent job.

> >Secret societies usually do an excellent job. 


> Another utterly irrellevant example.
> And wrong. Secret societies do a terrible job of keeping secrets.



People would announce their `powers` openly during certain eras.
Priests, shamans, wizards, witches... they were at times recognized
and believed, then feared, and the notion of telepathy has been with
humans for a while... It doesn`t exist at all after the scientific
method revolution. How would you apply the scientific method to the
study of telepathy? Or to the ability to improvise melodies?


> >> Your "food for thought" leaves me intellectually starving...
> >You already thought about it, as the post shows....

> 'it', what?

The theme of this post 


Frontiernet news wrote:
> Still isn't true.  Most schizophrenics believe that the voices are from 
> someone out there.  Real voices, not telepathy.
> 
> When they believe that it is telepathy, the symptom is probably thought 
> projection.
> 
> And there is no "reasoning" to explain the voices.  They just are!

Reasoning? Imagine you do enjoy this property and found a profitable way to make use of it. THen you find more people crowding the same channel... If that threatens your profitability you'll have an interest in getting them out of the channel, or be unable to get the "real messages", the ones that make it profitable... It is like protecting a market trading strategy from being shared ny many people, the more there are, the more it turns unprofitable. You then have an incentive to confuse new traders who happen to find your strategy, by making them think it is no good...

So it makes sense that true telepaths managed to turn telepathy (surely an old phenomenon) into something "hurtful". Nowadays, an illness that can be "cured" with drugs" schizophrenia. That leaves the channel free for the power users. In other times it could have been turned into "demonic messages" or "grave messages" (spiritism), or other forms of manipulation according to the era. Several mental diseases can be seeded this way if people believe they are being proviledged by this messages and start believeing and doing what they say. MInd also that telepathy might mean a breach of security for armies and secret services, for governments and conspirations and also for businesses that rely on priviledged information.  Also notice that people with economic means or lots of free time can dedicate themselves to send and receive messages the whole day, either profiting form them or manipulating others to leave th channel. An easy form is to convince them of becoming criminals and have the police get rid of them, somehow. Also, it should be taken into account that if drugs are a trigger of schizophrenia and schizophrenia is telepathy, then there are interests to ban drugs precisely to keep individuals from accessing this channel, but with the adverse side effect of letting people with little or no education use drugs as a form of tolerance. In this case, powerplayers fully in control of telepathy and profitable means to make use of it, plus ecnomic and political power derived of, and poor and mentally diseased individuals sharing the channel, any "normal" person accessing this channel of communication woul have a very difficult time and would have to sort several traps if he/she doesn't want to go insane... on purpose by the power players or unpuprposefully by the dumb players. 



Since the possibility of acting as a radio is ingrained in the
structure and functioning of the brain, it follows that children must
have an innate facility to tune this type of signals. This may be in
important factor in early relationships with the mother and the
explanation for the development and learning of language, when, at an
early age, exposition to a vast vocabulary is not yet attainable. The
usual joke of little children suddenly exposing a fould vocabulary to
the embarrasment of their parents can be explained thus, by receiving
and learning the signals of other adults or tuning the thoughts they
have in their mind. The mechanic is similar to the magnetization of
metals, or, in programming, to the kohonen type of learning algorythms
where the network, in this case the young brain, slowly forms
categories as brain activations that correspod to words in the
vocabulary of their parents. This may have as a consequence that
children of well read parents will have larger vocabularies (concepts),
while children of uncultured parents will start life at a disavdantage,
not related to hereditary factors but to cultural and socioeconomic
factors, helping thus to maintain the status quo. Waiting til reading
age to acquire conceptual tools and culture may be too late. A better
approach would be to put children in contact at the earliest possible
stage with learned individuals and let the so popular concept of
`learning by osmosis` to take place. It would feasible (though not
precisely comffortable), to take care of toddlers in ***universities***
and maybe in classes, so that their young brains are able to take
advantage of the *charged* atmosphere of knowledge. A good experiment
would be to use test groups (and controls) by letting toddlers grow up
in classes of certain disciplines and then test statistically both the
inclination and the easiness to develop professional careers or
inclination to the particular disciplines they were in touch with. This
may be even more important in disciplines such as music and
*mathematics*, where language is used in ways similar yet different to
the everyday use of language. This may help develop more scientists
with basic knowledge earlier in life and break the `earning barrier`,
where time taken to arrive to frontiers may be such that the best years
of learning are spent acquiring basic knowledge. Can knowledge rcuired
to contribute to a discipline be such that life may not be enough to
contribute?

The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition
software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We
can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic
phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of
information go through this channel, though the particular
communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell the
emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research
and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going
through to have deleterious effects on the individual.
(AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in Wadsworth).


The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition
software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We
can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic
phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of
information go through this channel, though the particular
communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell the
emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research
and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going
through to have deleterious effects on the individual


The fact of the cranial interface means also that schizophrenia
triggers such as some forbidden drugs are then justified, knowing
beforehand that the likely effect is to develop telepathy. This speaks
in favor of drugs that bind to receptors and traditional triggers of
"schizophrenia". It is just a matter of waiting for legislation to
assimilate this fact and emit fairer laws. Keepind population blind ina
channel of perception is on a level as genocide as a mass crime, a
crime against humanity.

It must be obvious that after finding the existence of cannabinoid receptors, the effect of THC is not destructive. THe likely effect is that of making ground, or, possibly, serve as a guideline for the development of neural ativations that establish what would be the analogous of a radio circuit. It is not of my knowldge whether THC binds permanently or not. On that fact depends its effect.

Yet, the debilitating effects of schizophrenia, being it considered telepathy, points to procedures already established to turn telepaths and their abilities into disabilities. By acknowleging this sociological effects, many natural telepaths would be saved from experimenting bad effects from their telepathic abilities. Incidentally, the existence of telepathy also explains many effects of demonology.


 Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 7 2004, 9:52 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, sci.physics, sci.econ, la.general, ny.general 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 7 Nov 2004 09:52:19 -0800 
Local: Sun, Nov 7 2004 9:52 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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It is worth noticing that the telepathic ability may be present in 
several animal species given that it is the number of interconnections 
what gives computing power and even small brains, provided they have 
the necessary `hardware` (resonators), can exhibit this roperty. This 
can be one of the reasons why few animal species have more than very 
basic `languages` (more like codes). One interestng speculation is 
that dolphins and whales may have very elaborate thought 
communication, given that water transmits electrical signals more 
efficiently than water (can somebody test this idea?). That would 
explain why despite their big brains they don`t have more articulate 
languages. This fact is linked to the lack of complex manipulators, 
which supposedly were instrumental (pun) in the development of the 
brain language areas. Though some phenomena can be explained by 
uncoordinated, autoorganizative control (anarchy seems to be able to 
create perfect orders), where each unit proceses individually 
information according to local rules, some of these phenomena may be 
the result of this unseen communication. The development of the 
neocortex and its ability to elaborate the complex world-models needed 
to control the manipulation possible by the hand (always in a setting 
of simultaneous determination), would have led to the atrophy of the 
telepathic ability, despite its survival advantage. As evolutively 
acquired abilities tend not to be lost but just go dormant, extreme 
experiences can lead to the waking up of these latent ability. It can 
be tested statistically by a strong correlation of soldiers, secret 
agents or common people developing schizophrenia-like symptoms after 
going through a life threatening situation. 

 
   robert j. kolker   Nov 7 2004, 10:29 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, sci.physics, sci.econ, la.general, ny.general 
From: "robert j. kolker"  - Find messages by this author  
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:29:42 -0500 
Local: Sun, Nov 7 2004 10:29 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 
> It is worth noticing that the telepathic ability may be present in 
> several animal species given that it is the number of interconnections 
> what gives computing power and even small brains, provided they have 
> the necessary `hardware` (resonators), can exhibit this roperty. This 
> can be one of the reasons why few animal species have more than very 
> basic `languages` (more like codes). One interestng speculation is 
> that dolphins and whales may have very elaborate thought 
> communication, given that water transmits electrical signals more 
> efficiently than water (can somebody test this idea?). 


This is all very speculative and there is no conclusive evidence to 
support it. If telepathy is an electromagnetic effect, the skull bones 
of most mammal will block any signal from being transitted or recieved 
skulll to skull. There is no reliable evidence for telephathy. None, 
Nada, Zip, Zero, Bupkis. K'duchus. 

There is as much evidence for telephath as there is for ghosts and 
spirits, which is to say, none. 


Bob Kolker 

 
   mike3   Nov 15 2004, 12:03 am     show options 

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From: mike4...@yahoo.com (mike3) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 15 Nov 2004 00:03:09 -0800 
Local: Mon, Nov 15 2004 12:03 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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"robert j. kolker"  wrote in message ... 




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 

> > It is worth noticing that the telepathic ability may be present in 
> > several animal species given that it is the number of interconnections 
> > what gives computing power and even small brains, provided they have 
> > the necessary `hardware` (resonators), can exhibit this roperty. This 
> > can be one of the reasons why few animal species have more than very 
> > basic `languages` (more like codes). One interestng speculation is 
> > that dolphins and whales may have very elaborate thought 
> > communication, given that water transmits electrical signals more 
> > efficiently than water (can somebody test this idea?). 


> This is all very speculative and there is no conclusive evidence to 
> support it. If telepathy is an electromagnetic effect, the skull bones 
> of most mammal will block any signal from being transitted or recieved 
> skulll to skull. There is no reliable evidence for telephathy. None, 
> Nada, Zip, Zero, Bupkis. K'duchus. 


> There is as much evidence for telephath as there is for ghosts and 
> spirits, which is to say, none. 


> Bob Kolker 



But we can test it (have you?). And we wouldn't be roiled on for that. 
If the 
tests show that the claims are not occuring, then we've dis-proven 
them. For instance, the 'electric transmission' theory with dolphins 
could be tested as follows: 

1. Get a dolphin tank. 


2. Expose the dolphins to various stimuli. 


3. See if any sort of electricity radiates through the water, or 
patterns appear 
   and disappear with repeated stimulaton, etc. indicating 
transmission of 
   information. 


4. If, after a lot of rigorous testing, this is found most of the 
time, and 
   is not attributable to anything known about dolphins, then we've 
found a 
   new effect. If so, then it probably doesn't exist. Further tests 
would 
   probably seem to confirm this -- and thus people should be free 
   to do them. 


See? 

 
   Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 15 2004, 6:08 pm     show options 

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From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 15 Nov 2004 18:08:30 -0800 
Local: Mon, Nov 15 2004 6:08 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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mike4...@yahoo.com (mike3) wrote in message ... 


(snip) 


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> But we can test it (have you?). And we wouldn't be roiled on for that. 
> If the 
> tests show that the claims are not occuring, then we've dis-proven 
> them. For instance, the 'electric transmission' theory with dolphins 
> could be tested as follows: 


> 1. Get a dolphin tank. 


> 2. Expose the dolphins to various stimuli. 


> 3. See if any sort of electricity radiates through the water, or 
> patterns appear 
>    and disappear with repeated stimulaton, etc. indicating 
> transmission of 
>    information. 



The problem here is that we may not be able to distinguish the 
information content from random noise, as we don`t know the form the 
signal takes, thatis, we don`t know the brain activation patters code. 
That is why I opted to approach it as computing power against signal 
to noise ratio. The channel and the specific code are irrelevant as 
long as we can show there is enough power to distinguish even very 
small (lots of noise) signals. Do we have instruments sensitive enough 
to gauge the effect of a dolphin`s brain effect on surrounding 
electromagnetic fields? And it may be that the channel is not 
electromagnetic at all, but as long as the computing power is enough 
there is the possibiity of te phenomenon. 


> 4. If, after a lot of rigorous testing, this is found most of the 
> time, and 
>    is not attributable to anything known about dolphins, then we've 
> found a 
>    new effect. If so, then it probably doesn't exist. Further tests 
> would 
>    probably seem to confirm this -- and thus people should be free 
>    to do them. 


This makes me remember an old legend about camels speaking... maybe we 
need a different approach to test telepathy among `irrational` beings. 
 
   Rick Russell   Nov 8 2004, 5:09 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, sci.physics, sci.econ, la.general, ny.general 
From: r...@is.rice.edu (Rick Russell) - Find messages by this author  
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:09:55 +0000 (UTC) 
Local: Mon, Nov 8 2004 5:09 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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In article <768f7623.0411051505.686a1...@posting.google.com>, 
Fabrizio J. Bonsignore  wrote: 



> Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
> can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 
> category of superstition, though a very extended one. 


Telepathy falls far behind other superstitions; things like astrology 
and numerology are much better known, and more frequently believed, by 
the general public. 


> Most people have 
> lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience 
> that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication 


Evidence for this claim? 


> If we live in a continuous reality we can safely assume that a given 
> signal will diminish continuously over time, evetually integrating 
> in the background noise but without losing its caracteristics. 


This statement doesn't make a lot of sense. Signals diminish over 
distance. The brain (or a radio transmitter) will continue to produce 
signals over time, as long as power (biological or electric) is 
applied. 

I'm not sure if brain signals get weaker with age, but it's an 
interesting question. 



> So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power 
> to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the 
> signals of other brains? 


It only becomes an issue of computing power if you can demonstrate 
that the effects occur in the first place: that a non-trivial signal 
is received and has an effect on the brain. 

Rick R. 

 
   ZZBunker   Nov 15 2004, 5:57 am     show options 

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From: zzbun...@netscape.net (ZZBunker) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 15 Nov 2004 05:57:50 -0800 
Local: Mon, Nov 15 2004 5:57 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

r...@is.rice.edu (Rick Russell) wrote in message ... 
> In article <768f7623.0411051505.686a1...@posting.google.com>, 
> Fabrizio J. Bonsignore  wrote: 
> > Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
> > can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 
> > category of superstition, though a very extended one. 

> Telepathy falls far behind other superstitions; things like astrology 
> and numerology are much better known, and more frequently believed, by 
> the general public. 


> > Most people have 
> > lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience 
> > that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication 


> Evidence for this claim? 


> > If we live in a continuous reality we can safely assume that a given 
> > signal will diminish continuously over time, evetually integrating 
> > in the background noise but without losing its caracteristics. 


> This statement doesn't make a lot of sense. Signals diminish over 
> distance. The brain (or a radio transmitter) will continue to produce 
> signals over time, as long as power (biological or electric) is 
> applied. 


> I'm not sure if brain signals get weaker with age, but it's an 
> interesting question. 


> > So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power 
> > to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the 
> > signals of other brains? 


> It only becomes an issue of computing power if you can demonstrate 
> that the effects occur in the first place: that a non-trivial signal 
> is received and has an effect on the brain. 



  That is impossible in moron science. 
  Since a signal is by definition nontrivial 
  iff it is a cocaine-driven jazz fusion of a star trek 
  repeat and a Higg's Bison Boson Burger. 

  So telepathy is already to only exist 
  in spaces that pathy->0 asymptotically as 
  e^-Ax^2.   Where A is any universal 
  constant that is orthogonal to the 
  fine structure constant. 



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> Rick R. 

Yet there is a danger in telepathy: synchronization. As clinical 
schizophrenia can be considered a form of neurosis or misadaptation of 
true telepaths unable to mix immediate input with telepathic input, 
ignorance and a lack of intellectual tools can lead to `weak` minds 
being `directed` or, more graphically, sucked, by a stronger, 
morepared and sophisticated mind. This can explain the phenomenon of 
sects and mass suicides. Adepts, either through drugs or rituals 
(deprivation, extreme situations), get opened to the ideology of the 
leader and repetition of ide and thoughts lead the minds to become 
synchronized. This can be explained and justified through the 
mechanical statistics concept of magnetized fields if we consider that 
brains are, y analogy, biological magnets. 


Once minds are synchronized and subjected to the more sophisticate, 
elaborate verbal construction of the leader and his/her goals, 
individuals lose individuality and become more like members of an 
anthill. For a human is a tragedy. It would be very difficult to know 
whether mass suicides occur because the leader orders it or because 
the situation is unbearable, though it can be observed that mass 
suicides occur in small sects, small groups, not in big groups, and 
also among ignorant people. Even without the hypothesis of total 
telepathy, the sharing of an ideology can have the same effects. 


This phenomenon can be contrarrested through education. A society of 
wll educated and intellecutally oriented telepaths would not be prone 
to the effect of synchronization, as each mind would be strong enough 
to contrarrest the monothinking, a reason why religions mistrust 
intelligence and individualistic education. Reading is essential. 


This phenomenon may be known by governments and kept as many secrets 
are kept. It would also explain the ferocity with which sects are 
persecuted, as the loss of individuality is a very serious threat to 
the individual`s survival. This event may be one of the real causes of 
psychosis: the individual loses touch with reality because he is 
synchronized to events occurring someplace else, therefore the context 
of actions and words is missing. There *is* a single Reality, but the 
individual is reacting to a subset of reality beyond its immediate 
self, like somebody preparing for a tornado happening on the other 
side of the world. 


This text links with Masterminds, Theory of beliefs, Alive and Human, 
Sterens and Guilt of Atonement. 

 
   Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Dec 1 2004, 6:40 pm     show options 

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From: djbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 1 Dec 2004 18:40:01 -0800 
Local: Wed, Dec 1 2004 6:40 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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The fact is that if drugs are triggers of telepathy (as schizophrenia 
is assumed to be oneof the results of drugs, except perhaps cocaine, 
which seems to be totally harmful and other chemical drugs that affect 
the levels of serotonin), the prohibition of drugs is in esscence and 
ultimately a form of repression, as this ban prohibits humans from 
developing another level of communication. In fact, the ban is a 
danger, since it is broken by very poor people, criminals and very 
rich people, leaving the middle classes, the `decent` people, out of 
the conversation. This fact may be the single reason of the 
debilitating effects of schizophrenia, as the conversations would have 
little or no point of contact and be performed by people of very low 
culture. This should be obvious from the discussion of the thread for 
those who have been following this thread since its inception in 2002. 

 
  
Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
 Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Oct 31 2004, 4:05 pm     show options 

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From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 31 Oct 2004 16:05:55 -0800 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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You can use tobit models. 

 
   |-|erc   Aug 6 2004, 3:04 am     show options 

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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:04:54 GMT 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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"Bobby D. Bryant"  wrote 




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> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:12:47 -0700, Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 

> > "Bobby D. Bryant"  wrote in message 
> >> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:22:33 -0700, Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 


> >> > Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
> >> > can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 
> >> > category of superstition, though a very extended one. 


> >> It's not the lack of explanation that makes us relegate it to fantasy; 
> >> it's the lack of any demonstration that it _exists_. 


> > What would be a suitable demonstration? 


> In general, the ability to use it and beat the odds with statistical 
> significance, without dropping the data from "bad runs". 


> We can work it out in more detail if you know a telepath and can spell out 
> what s/he claims to be able to do.  (Read my mind?  Send me a message 
> telepathically?  See what I see?  Please be specific.) 



2 option multi choice, any question, I'll stay well over average over time. 

Herc 

 
   Bobby D. Bryant   Aug 6 2004, 6:27 pm     show options 

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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:27:09 -0600 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:04:54 +0000, |-|erc wrote: 
> "Bobby D. Bryant"  wrote 
>> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:12:47 -0700, Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 

>> > "Bobby D. Bryant"  wrote in message 
>> >> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:22:33 -0700, Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote: 


>> >> > Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which 
>> >> > science can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated 
>> >> > to the category of superstition, though a very extended one. 


>> >> It's not the lack of explanation that makes us relegate it to 
>> >> fantasy; it's the lack of any demonstration that it _exists_. 


>> > What would be a suitable demonstration? 


>> In general, the ability to use it and beat the odds with statistical 
>> significance, without dropping the data from "bad runs". 


>> We can work it out in more detail if you know a telepath and can spell 
>> out what s/he claims to be able to do.  (Read my mind?  Send me a 
>> message telepathically?  See what I see?  Please be specific.) 


> 2 option multi choice, any question, I'll stay well over average over 
> time. 



I'm not interested in "well over average", I'm looking for statistical 
significance. 

-- 
Bobby Bryant 
Austin, Texas 

 
   |-|erc   Aug 6 2004, 11:01 pm     show options 

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Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 06:01:20 GMT 
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"Bobby D. Bryant"  wrote in 



> I'm not interested in "well over average", I'm looking for statistical 
> significance. 


that's what it means moron 

Herc 

 
   Michael Gray   Aug 3 2004, 1:47 am     show options 

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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:17:06 +0930 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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On 2 Aug 2004 21:22:33 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com ( 




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Fabrizio J. 
Bonsignore) wrote: 
>Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
>can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 
>category of superstition, though a very extended one. Most people have 
>lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience 
>that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication; on the 
>other extreme there is the people who actually hear voices 
>continuously and who we consider `mentally ill`, or shizophrenics. Of 
>coursse there are serious teams around the world applying the 
>scientific method to the study of telepathy, with aparently little 
>results, though it is rumored that the military complex has also 
>performed research on the matter, with results being, of course, 
>classified. 

>People usually resort to mystic beliefs to explain telepathy, while it 
>is argued that there is no physical support for it. I believe 
>otherwise. Brains are composed of interconnected `simple` information 
>processors that use and generate electric fields to propagate their 
>signals. The resultant field is so powerful that we can even measure 
>it *through* the crain to obtain an EEG. The measured signal is 
>however quite undifferentiated, even though we know there is an 
>underlying order to it. On the other hand we know that electric fields 
>do have an effect over other fields... If we live in a continuous 
>reality we can safely assume that a given signal will diminish 
>continuously over time, evetually integrating in the background noise 
>but without losing its caracteristics. It simply becomes too weak to 
>be distinguishable, though it will affect the whole electric field 
>that surrounds us. 


>So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power 
>to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the 
>signals of other brains? We certainly go through life without 
>listening to others thoughts, but this may well be a learned 
>(evolutively or environmentally) response, maybe brough about by the 
>developmentof language. Sound is certainly a better, more reliable 
>information carrier than weak electric field interactions and so we 
>rely on it, but it is possible given the plasticity of the brain that 
>under certain circumstances groups of neurons `learn` to accept and 
>interpret this interactions and give them `meaning`, for instance, if 
>the individual is gradually losing aural acuity. It is even possible 
>to speculate on the organizaion of `resonator groups`, groups of 
>neurons that learn to fire when certain (analogous) signals affect the 
>brain`s field. This ability may well be the cause of the development 
>of certain forms of schizophrenia, like those that develop late in an 
>individual`s life, though it wouldn`t explain all schizophrenic cases. 
>We can even speculate that certain forms of schizophrenia become a 
>problem due to the `storm` of thoughts received and the inability of 
>the individual to deal with the new source of information. In fact, 
>many individuals may actually enjoy the benefits of telepathy without 
>suffering the ill consequences of schizophrenia because they are able 
>to process the increased quantity of information received through this 
>channel. I doubt telepaths would be anxious to tell the whole world 
>that they hear voices (sort of a secret society...), though many 
>psychics and entertainers around the world give this kind of shows. 


>The relation between the strength of the signals and the necessary 
>computing power to interpret and whether the brain can provide it is 
>amenable tom formal calculus. It may well be that Earth`s electric 
>field is more charged with meaning than what we usually think... 


>Food for thought... 


>8-D 



Am I correct in my assumption that you are re-proposing the the old 
concept of the human brain radiating an electromagnetic field, can be 
detected by other human brains? 
And you give as "potential" support for this detection, EEGs, which do 
not detect EM radiation, but electrostatic voltages? 

And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists, 
somehow justified? 


Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules 
applying to the propogation of  electromagnetic radiation. 
Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and 
travelling no faster than the speed of light. 


Oh, yes. I nearly forgot. 
The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way. 


So far, it has not done any of the above. 
In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does 
not exist at all. 
A truly excellent job. 


Your "food for thought" leaves me intellectually starving... 

 
   Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Aug 3 2004, 9:49 am     show options 

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From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 3 Aug 2004 09:49:54 -0700 
Local: Tues, Aug 3 2004 9:49 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Michael Gray  wrote in message ... 
> On 2 Aug 2004 21:22:33 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. 
> Bonsignore) wrote: 

> >Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
> >can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 
> >category of superstition, though a very extended one. Most people have 
> >lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience 
> >that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication; on the 
> >other extreme there is the people who actually hear voices 
> >continuously and who we consider `mentally ill`, or shizophrenics. Of 
> >coursse there are serious teams around the world applying the 
> >scientific method to the study of telepathy, with aparently little 
> >results, though it is rumored that the military complex has also 
> >performed research on the matter, with results being, of course, 
> >classified. 


> >People usually resort to mystic beliefs to explain telepathy, while it 
> >is argued that there is no physical support for it. I believe 
> >otherwise. Brains are composed of interconnected `simple` information 
> >processors that use and generate electric fields to propagate their 
> >signals. The resultant field is so powerful that we can even measure 
> >it *through* the crain to obtain an EEG. The measured signal is 
> >however quite undifferentiated, even though we know there is an 
> >underlying order to it. On the other hand we know that electric fields 
> >do have an effect over other fields... If we live in a continuous 
> >reality we can safely assume that a given signal will diminish 
> >continuously over time, evetually integrating in the background noise 
> >but without losing its caracteristics. It simply becomes too weak to 
> >be distinguishable, though it will affect the whole electric field 
> >that surrounds us. 


> >So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power 
> >to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the 
> >signals of other brains? We certainly go through life without 
> >listening to others thoughts, but this may well be a learned 
> >(evolutively or environmentally) response, maybe brough about by the 
> >developmentof language. Sound is certainly a better, more reliable 
> >information carrier than weak electric field interactions and so we 
> >rely on it, but it is possible given the plasticity of the brain that 
> >under certain circumstances groups of neurons `learn` to accept and 
> >interpret this interactions and give them `meaning`, for instance, if 
> >the individual is gradually losing aural acuity. It is even possible 
> >to speculate on the organizaion of `resonator groups`, groups of 
> >neurons that learn to fire when certain (analogous) signals affect the 
> >brain`s field. This ability may well be the cause of the development 
> >of certain forms of schizophrenia, like those that develop late in an 
> >individual`s life, though it wouldn`t explain all schizophrenic cases. 
> >We can even speculate that certain forms of schizophrenia become a 
> >problem due to the `storm` of thoughts received and the inability of 
> >the individual to deal with the new source of information. In fact, 
> >many individuals may actually enjoy the benefits of telepathy without 
> >suffering the ill consequences of schizophrenia because they are able 
> >to process the increased quantity of information received through this 
> >channel. I doubt telepaths would be anxious to tell the whole world 
> >that they hear voices (sort of a secret society...), though many 
> >psychics and entertainers around the world give this kind of shows. 


> >The relation between the strength of the signals and the necessary 
> >computing power to interpret and whether the brain can provide it is 
> >amenable tom formal calculus. It may well be that Earth`s electric 
> >field is more charged with meaning than what we usually think... 


> >Food for thought... 


> >8-D 


> Am I correct in my assumption that you are re-proposing the the old 
> concept of the human brain radiating an electromagnetic field, can be 
> detected by other human brains? 
> And you give as "potential" support for this detection, EEGs, which do 
> not detect EM radiation, but electrostatic voltages? 



Not the field, but some signals. EEG does prove that there is such an 
electromagnetic field. The connectionist system of the brain can be 
modeled in such way. 


> And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists, 
> somehow justified? 


There are meaningful coincidences. And I guess true telepaths if they 
exist wouldn`t publish it openly. People used to be burned alive just 
for having black cats... 


> Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules 
> applying to the propogation of  electromagnetic radiation. 
> Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and 
> travelling no faster than the speed of light. 


Precisely. The question is whether the brain has enough computing 
power to separate a diminishing signal from background noise. 


> Oh, yes. I nearly forgot. 
> The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way. 


Again, I guess telepaths wouldn`t give away their advantage. And many 
magicians may use telepathy and let people believe it is just a trick. 
There is people who tune `radio station` with their fillings... 


> So far, it has not done any of the above. 
`it`, what? 
> In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does 
> not exist at all. 
> A truly excellent job. 


Secret societies usually do an excellent job. 

> Your "food for thought" leaves me intellectually starving... 


You already thought about it, as the post shows.... 
<8-) 
 
   Michael Gray   Aug 3 2004, 8:10 pm     show options 

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From: Michael Gray  - Find messages by this author  
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:40:18 +0930 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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On 3 Aug 2004 09:49:54 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. 



Bonsignore) wrote: 
>Michael Gray  wrote in message ... 
>> On 2 Aug 2004 21:22:33 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. 
>> Bonsignore) wrote: 

>> >Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science 
>> >can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the 



: 
: 


>> Am I correct in my assumption that you are re-proposing the the old 
>> concept of the human brain radiating an electromagnetic field, can be 
>> detected by other human brains? 
>> And you give as "potential" support for this detection, EEGs, which do 
>> not detect EM radiation, but electrostatic voltages? 


>Not the field, but some signals. EEG does prove that there is such an 
>electromagnetic field. 



EEG does *NOT* prove that there is an electromagnetic field. 
If you are going to pontificate on such matters, get educated about 
them first. 
EEG only monitors electric potentials. 


>The connectionist system of the brain can be 
>modeled in such way. 


I know of no such model. 
I know of models that are based on varying electric potential 
gradients, but none that rely on electromagnetic fields, or 
"radiation" as you originally put it. 
Could you please point to me a scientifically valid "connectionist" 
model of the brain that is based on electromagnetic fields. 
(Vis "photon exchange") 


>> And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists, 
>> somehow justified? 

>There are meaningful coincidences. And I guess true telepaths if they 
>exist wouldn`t publish it openly. People used to be burned alive just 
>for having black cats... 



You're not seriously suggesting that EVERY single person who has this 
hidden but truly Earth-Shattering power, which if revealed, could make 
them master of the universe, and get them enough money to hire a large 
private army to protect them, don't do so because of a few apocryphal 
witch burnings hundreds of years ago? 
EVERY SINGLE one of them, in all of recorded history!?! 

Now that's either very funny, or so implausible that I cannot accept 
it. 
If *I* had the demonstrable power of telepathy, I would immediately 
grab Randi's million bucks, hire a few bodyguards, and live it up! 
So would any sane person. 



>> Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules 
>> applying to the propogation of  electromagnetic radiation. 
>> Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and 
>> travelling no faster than the speed of light. 

>Precisely. The question is whether the brain has enough computing 
>power to separate a diminishing signal from background noise. 



Good point. 
And one that has been researched thoroughly 
And so far failed to manifest anything. 
Of course there are many other phenomena that an EM signal should obey 
as well, such as being able to be blocked by an appropriate Faraday 
cage, etc etc. 


>> Oh, yes. I nearly forgot. 
>> The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way. 

>Again, I guess telepaths wouldn`t give away their advantage. And many 
>magicians may use telepathy and let people believe it is just a trick. 
>There is people who tune `radio station` with their fillings... 



Once again, you provide an utterly irrelevant example, which is 
supposed to support your proposition, but does nothing but show to me 
that your case is non-existent, if that's the best answer you can 
give. 

And for your: 
"telepath's wouldn't give away their advantage."????!!!?? 
What "advantage"? 
The advantage to supply vapid answers to non-questions? 
The advantage to be able to predict distasters, but not until after 
they happen? 
The advantage to live in a trailer park for the rest of their lives? 


Any sane telepathist would ditch those advantages in a second. 


And what would you say of the magician that uses telepathy in front of 
a small audience in a dingy dive in Encino every night, in order to be 
able to pay the rent on his 2 room flat, and have his mother dying of 
a curable disease because he can't afford the operation? 
Doesn't he know about Randi's challenge? 
Whennext  you see one of these "many" magicians, it is your duty to 
let them know that he can have $1 million, in a flash! 


Why can't these people use their telepathy to discover this fact? 


Are they *all* terminally thick? 



>> So far, it has not done any of the above. 
>`it`, what? 


'it' = Telepathy. 


>> In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does 
>> not exist at all. 
>> A truly excellent job. 

>Secret societies usually do an excellent job. 



Another utterly irrellevant example. 
And wrong. Secret societies do a terrible job of keeping secrets. 


>> Your "food for thought" leaves me intellectually starving... 
>You already thought about it, as the post shows.... 


'it', what? 


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><8-) 

 
   Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Aug 7 2004, 3:41 am     show options 

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Date: 7 Aug 2004 03:41:09 -0700 
Local: Sat, Aug 7 2004 3:41 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Michael Gray  wrote in message ... 
> On 3 Aug 2004 09:49:54 -0700, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. 
> Bonsignore) wrote: 
> >> Am I correct in my assumption that you are re-proposing the the old 
> >> concept of the human brain radiating an electromagnetic field, can be 
> >> detected by other human brains? 
> >> And you give as "potential" support for this detection, EEGs, which do 
> >> not detect EM radiation, but electrostatic voltages? 

> >Not the field, but some signals. EEG does prove that there is such an 
> >electromagnetic field. 


> EEG does *NOT* prove that there is an electromagnetic field. 
> If you are going to pontificate on such matters, get educated about 
> them first. 
> EEG only monitors electric potentials. 



No deep knowledge, indeed, but we can detect electric activity even 
without perforating the skull, and that`s my point. 


> >The connectionist system of the brain can be 
> >modeled in such way. 
> I know of no such model. 
> I know of models that are based on varying electric potential 
> gradients, but none that rely on electromagnetic fields, or 
> "radiation" as you originally put it. 
> Could you please point to me a scientifically valid "connectionist" 
> model of the brain that is based on electromagnetic fields. 
> (Vis "photon exchange") 


Some models can be analyzed in their dynamics (learning), from the 
point of view of statistical mechanics, as a field being magnetized. 
The Hopfield model, for instance. 


> >> And that this is what makes people's feelings that telepathy exists, 
> >> somehow justified? 


This what? 


> >There are meaningful coincidences. And I guess true telepaths if they 
> >exist wouldn`t publish it openly. People used to be burned alive just 
> >for having black cats... 

> You're not seriously suggesting that EVERY single person who has this 
> hidden but truly Earth-Shattering power, which if revealed, could make 
> them master of the universe, and get them enough money to hire a large 
> private army to protect them, don't do so because of a few apocryphal 
> witch burnings hundreds of years ago? 
> EVERY SINGLE one of them, in all of recorded history!?! 



There is competition if there`s more than one; there should be 
differences in power (ability) too. Are you sure those in power who 
ACTUALLY got enough money and sorrounded themselves with an army 
didn`t had (have) this truly Earth-Shattering power? 


> Now that's either very funny, or so implausible that I cannot accept 
> it. 
> If *I* had the demonstrable power of telepathy, I would immediately 
> grab Randi's million bucks, hire a few bodyguards, and live it up! 
> So would any sane person. 


And would you go about and publicize the fact to the whole world? 
Particularly when telepathy is equivalent to hearing voices nad *that* 
is equivalent to mental illness. 


> >> Then that version of "telepathy" *must* obey the various rules rules 
> >> applying to the propogation of  electromagnetic radiation. 
> >> Including it's power falling off with the square of distance, and 
> >> travelling no faster than the speed of light. 

> >Precisely. The question is whether the brain has enough computing 
> >power to separate a diminishing signal from background noise. 


> Good point. 
> And one that has been researched thoroughly 
> And so far failed to manifest anything. 



Do you have the figures? 


> Of course there are many other phenomena that an EM signal should obey 
> as well, such as being able to be blocked by an appropriate Faraday 
> cage, etc etc. 


Interesting... 


> >> Oh, yes. I nearly forgot. 
> >> The "phenomenon" should actually manifest itself in some testable way. 

> >Again, I guess telepaths wouldn`t give away their advantage. And many 
> >magicians may use telepathy and let people believe it is just a trick. 
> >There is people who tune `radio station` with their fillings... 


> Once again, you provide an utterly irrelevant example, which is 
> supposed to support your proposition, but does nothing but show to me 
> that your case is non-existent, if that's the best answer you can 
> give. 



Why irrelevant? Which example? 


> And for your: 
> "telepath's wouldn't give away their advantage."????!!!?? 
> What "advantage"? 


Maybe the ability to know the black wizard wants to kill them... ;) 

> The advantage to supply vapid answers to non-questions? 
? 
> The advantage to be able to predict distasters, but not until after 
> they happen? 


Volcanoes are telepathic!?! 

> The advantage to live in a trailer park for the rest of their lives? 
Please explain. 
> Any sane telepathist would ditch those advantages in a second. 
Please explain. 
> And what would you say of the magician that uses telepathy in front of 
> a small audience in a dingy dive in Encino every night, in order to be 
> able to pay the rent on his 2 room flat, and have his mother dying of 
> a curable disease because he can't afford the operation? 


Maybe he is using a trick... or doesn`t have enough computing 
capacity... 


> Doesn't he know about Randi's challenge? 
> When next  you see one of these "many" magicians, it is your duty to 
> let them know that he can have $1 million, in a flash! 
> Why can't these people use their telepathy to discover this fact? 


No idea about the challenge. Is it really suitable to what telepahy 
might actually do or is based on the assumptin of a fantastic sf 
power? 


> Are they *all* terminally thick? 
 ?! 
> >> So far, it has not done any of the above. 
> >`it`, what? 
> 'it' = Telepathy. 
> >> In fact, it has done a very good job of pretending as though it does 
> >> not exist at all. 
> >> A truly excellent job. 

> >Secret societies usually do an excellent job. 


> Another utterly irrellevant example. 
> And wrong. Secret societies do a terrible job of keeping secrets. 



People would announce their `powers` openly during certain eras. 
Priests, shamans, wizards, witches... they were at times recognized 
and believed, then feared, and the notion of telepathy has been with 
humans for a while... It doesn`t exist at all after the scientific 
method revolution. How would you apply the scientific method to the 
study of telepathy?  Or to the ability to improvise melodies? 


> >> Your "food for thought" leaves me intellectually starving... 
> >You already thought about it, as the post shows.... 

> 'it', what? 



The theme of this post 
 

If THC grants telepathy by rectifying and conducting brain signals 
after binding to cannabinoid receptors, it is just a matter of smelling 
marihuana to become at least a partial telepath. 

 
   Phaedrus   Dec 14 2004, 6:43 am     show options 

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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:43:34 GMT 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Dude!  I could sense you typing this hours before it appeared on Usenet. 



 wrote in message 


news:1102378291.491862.104150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... 


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> If THC grants telepathy by rectifying and conducting brain signals 
> after binding to cannabinoid receptors, it is just a matter of smelling 
> marihuana to become at least a partial telepath. 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Dec 21 2004, 9:42 am     show options 

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Date: 21 Dec 2004 09:42:47 -0800 
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Phaedrus wrote: 
>  


Not at all, believe me, not at all... 


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> Dude!  I could sense you typing this hours before it appeared on 
Usenet. 

>  wrote in message 
> news:1102378291.491862.104150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... 
> > If THC grants telepathy by rectifying and conducting brain signals 
> > after binding to cannabinoid receptors, it is just a matter of 
smelling 
> > marihuana to become at least a partial telepath. 


 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Dec 21 2004, 9:41 am     show options 

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Date: 21 Dec 2004 09:41:51 -0800 
Local: Tues, Dec 21 2004 9:41 am  
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Frontiernet news wrote: 
> When they believe that it is telepathy, the symptom is probably 
thought 
> projection. 
> And there is no "reasoning" to explain the voices. They just are! 


Reasoning? Imagine you do enjoy this property and found a profitable 
way to make use of it. THen you find more people crowding the same 
channel... If that threatens your profitability you'll have an interest 
in getting them out of the channel, or be unable to get the "real 
messages", the ones that make it profitable... It is like protecting a 
market trading strategy from being shared ny many people, the more 
there are, the more it turns unprofitable. You then have an incentive 
to confuse new traders who happen to find your strategy, by making them 
think it is no good... 

So it makes sense that true telepaths managed to turn telepathy (surely 
an old phenomenon) into something "hurtful". Nowadays, an illness that 
can be "cured" with drugs" schizophrenia. That leaves the channel free 
for the power users. In other times it could have been turned into 
"demonic messages" or "grave messages" (spiritism), or other forms of 
manipulation according to the era. Several mental diseases can be 
seeded this way if people believe they are being proviledged by this 
messages and start believeing and doing what they say. MInd also that 
telepathy might mean a breach of security for armies and secret 
services, for governments and conspirations and also for businesses 
that rely on priviledged information. Also notice that people with 
economic means or lots of free time can dedicate themselves to send and 
receive messages the whole day, either profiting form them or 
manipulating others to leave th channel. An easy form is to convince 
them of becoming criminals and have the police get rid of them, 
somehow. Also, it should be taken into account that if drugs are a 
trigger of schizophrenia and schizophrenia is telepathy, then there are 
interests to ban drugs precisely to keep individuals from accessing 
this channel, but with the adverse side effect of letting people with 
little or no education use drugs as a form of tolerance. In this case, 
powerplayers fully in control of telepathy and profitable means to make 
use of it, plus ecnomic and political power derived of, and poor and 
mentally diseased individuals sharing the channel, any "normal" person 
accessing this channel of communication woul have a very difficult time 
and would have to sort several traps if he/she doesn't want to go 
insane... on purpose by the power players or unpuprposefully by the 
dumb players. 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Dec 24 2004, 4:37 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 24 Dec 2004 16:37:52 -0800 
Local: Fri, Dec 24 2004 4:37 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

Since the possibility of acting as a radio is ingrained in the 
structure and functioning of the brain, it follows that children must 
have an innate facility to tune this type of signals. This may be in 
important factor in early relationships with the mother and the 
explanation for the development and learning of language, when, at an 
early age, exposition to a vast vocabulary is not yet attainable. The 
usual joke of little children suddenly exposing a fould vocabulary to 
the embarrasment of their parents can be explained thus, by receiving 
and learning the signals of other adults or tuning the thoughts they 
have in their mind. The mechanic is similar to the magnetization of 
metals, or, in programming, to the kohonen type of learning algorythms 
where the network, in this case the young brain, slowly forms 
categories as brain activations that correspod to words in the 
vocabulary of their parents. This may have as a consequence that 
children of well read parents will have larger vocabularies (concepts), 
while children of uncultured parents will start life at a disavdantage, 
not related to hereditary factors but to cultural and socioeconomic 
factors, helping thus to maintain the status quo. Waiting til reading 
age to acquire conceptual tools and culture may be too late. A better 
approach would be to put children in contact at the earliest possible 
stage with learned individuals and let the so popular concept of 
`learning by osmosis` to take place. It would feasible (though not 
precisely comffortable), to take care of toddlers in ***universities*** 
and maybe in classes, so that their young brains are able to take 
advantage of the *charged* atmosphere of knowledge. A good experiment 
would be to use test groups (and controls) by letting toddlers grow up 
in classes of certain disciplines and then test statistically both the 
inclination and the easiness to develop professional careers or 
inclination to the particular disciplines they were in touch with. This 
may be even more important in disciplines such as music and 
*mathematics*, where language is used in ways similar yet different to 
the everyday use of language. This may help develop more scientists 
with basic knowledge earlier in life and break the `earning barrier`, 
where time taken to arrive to frontiers may be such that the best years 
of learning are spent acquiring basic knowledge. Can knowledge rcuired 
to contribute to a discipline be such that life may not be enough to 
contribute? 


I will copy this tomorrow if the Visitis Center is open in 
http://www.oocities.org/syntotic/google/thoftelepathy.htm 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Dec 23 2004, 10:15 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 23 Dec 2004 10:15:11 -0800 
Local: Thurs, Dec 23 2004 10:15 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
information go through this channel, though the particular 
communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell the 
emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Dec 23 2004, 12:54 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 23 Dec 2004 12:54:49 -0800 
Local: Thurs, Dec 23 2004 12:54 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  


The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
information go through this channel, though the particular 
communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell the 
emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
through to have deleterious effects on the individual 


. 

The fact of the cranial interface means also that schizophrenia 
triggers such as some forbidden drugs are then justified, knowing 
beforehand that the likely effect is to develop telepathy. This speaks 
in favor of drugs that bind to receptors and traditional triggers of 
"schizophrenia". It is just a matter of waiting for legislation to 
assimilate this fact and emit fairer laws. Keepind population blind ina 
channel of perception is on a level as genocide as a mass crime, a 
crime against humanity. 

This paper now puts the author in a moral dilemma. The link to 
schizophrenia and drugs (suggested after conceiving the post 
schizophrenia as neurosis), means that the author should smoke THC to 
experiment the full effects of psychism (telepathy, empathy, etc.), 
though while THC is an illegal substance it is not possible without 
having the resources to play the complex plays of the ban of drugs, 
namely, money to pay fees, etc. What would other people do? 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 11, 11:01 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 11 Jan 2005 11:01:10 -0800 
Local: Tues, Jan 11 2005 11:01 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
information go through this channel, though the particular 
communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell the 
emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
(AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in Wadsworth). 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:18 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 


This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 


These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 


The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 


I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 



The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   josephus   Jan 31, 9:00 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: josephus  - Find messages by this author  
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:00:38 GMT 
Local: Mon, Jan 31 2005 9:00 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

is this guy for real?  I think he is advocating stopping the war o drugs 
because it makes his drugs too expensive.   I wonder if he really needs 
  the drugs to come up with this marvelous fantasy. 
               josephus 



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
> channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
> Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
> schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
> can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
> make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
> channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
> follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
> available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
> ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
> before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
> rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
> are not reliable. 

> This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
> unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
> behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
> of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
> manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
> telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
> people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
> epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
> the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
> belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
> societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
> given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
> disregarded as products of the imagination. 


> These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
> the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
> well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
> the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
> inquisition and other historical courts. 


> The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
> has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
> information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
> meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
> ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
> `critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
> receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
> manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
> threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
> an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
> expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
> psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
> should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
> random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
> perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
> to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
> accidents, wars, etc. 


> I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
> Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
> criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 


> The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
> (helmet), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 


>>software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
>>can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
>>phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
>>information go through this channel, though the particular 
>>communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 


> the 


>>emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
>>and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
>>through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
>>(AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 


> Wadsworth). 



Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:29 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 
This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 
These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 
The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 
I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 
The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet 
), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:24 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 
This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 
These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 
The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 
I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 
The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet 
), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:30 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 
This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 
These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 
The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 
I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 
The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet 
), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:24 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 
This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 
These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 
The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 
I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 
The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet 
), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 29, 4:34 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 29 Jan 2005 16:34:22 -0800 
Local: Sat, Jan 29 2005 4:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Several mental illnesses can be triggered purposefully through this 
channel, the so dreaded syndrome of `I did it because I heard voices`. 
Given the lack of information about the phenomenon, its cover as 
schizophrenia, it is just enough to give a simple proof, something that 
can be corroborated by the individual, to establish enough authority to 
make the individual `believe` in what is being told through this 
channel, a form of authority phallacy. The sending agent can then 
follow a procedure to `convince` the individual of great rewards 
available if only the individual... commits a crime. Depending on the 
ingenuity of the subject this convincing may be more or less elaborate 
before the victim engages in some kind of hurting behavior. The same 
rewards should be available without risk to the victim, otherwise they 
are not reliable. 
This form of criminal behaviour (suggesting crimes through a widely 
unrecognized human communication channel), is also the explanation 
behind the demonic manifestations of the middle ages and the beginning 
of modern psychiatry. Children accusers, possessions, demonic 
manifestations, can be explained by recurring to the effect of 
telepathy operating through credulous individuals and operated by 
people with full control of the ability, within the beliefs of the 
epoch. It should also be taken into account that this channel may at 
the same time be useful to communicate real `secrets`, knowledge that 
belongs to the traditional realm and pertaining to different secret 
societies and only now is being explored scientifically, if at all, 
given that the messages received by `schizophrenics` are automatically 
disregarded as products of the imagination. 
These concepts can be documented more explicitly, both the diseases and 
the mechanisms that trigger them (suicide, murder, canibalism...) as 
well as the manner and way in which telepathic phenomena can explain 
the known cases of witchcraft as documented in the trials by the 
inquisition and other historical courts. 
The worrisome part of this discussion is the effect that this channel 
has upon individuals who lack the *conscious* ability and thus receive 
information without being aware or fully aware of its source or 
meaning. For highly trained and gifted brains this amounts to the 
ability to `control minds`, in the way that paranoids and other social 
`critics` often times expose. Given that this ability, the ability to 
receive and transmit thoughts like radio, is a survival trait and 
manifests itself after or during (maybe even before) life or property 
threatening circumstances, the possibility of seriously distabilizing 
an otherwise normal individual are very high. Wide acknowledgement and 
expanation of this phenomena far from the supertitious usage of the 
psychic adepts and from the clouds of ink of and worry of psychiatrists 
should seriously help diminish the bad effects of telepathy due to the 
random or purposeful use by gifted individuals or other really 
perturbed agents who might have acquired the ability (even if unknown 
to them), after perturbing experiences, such as rapes, murder attempts, 
accidents, wars, etc. 
I have been in T-House and Weingart in LA, in Saint Agnes Church, 
Charles H Gay shelter and Camp LaGuardia in NY. Hope th effects of the 
criminals that have stripped me of all my property end soon. 
The recent news about a cranial interface to a computer cursor 
(helmet 
), without the need of electrodes and using voice recognition 
> software is proof enough for the ideas expressed in this article. We 
> can get rid of the notion of schizophrenia and acknowledge telepathic 
> phenomena without attaching the stigma of "mental illness". Lots of 
> information go through this channel, though the particular 
> communicative characteristics of the channel, the inability to tell 
the 
> emisor and his ability to remain anonimous, recquire further research 
> and even education to handle properly and avoid the information going 
> through to have deleterious effects on the individual. 
> (AMNews, Mind over Matter, Wednesday Dec 24, 2004 Wolpaw in 
Wadsworth 


). 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 31, 6:07 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 31 Jan 2005 06:07:57 -0800 
Local: Mon, Jan 31 2005 6:07 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Given the relationship between drugs and schizophrenia (see 
schizophrenia and neurosis) and considering that the meaning of 
schizophrenia is that of receiving through the radio-like ability of 
the brain signals from other minds, it follows that at least some of 
these signals have their origin in people who are directly related to 
the druglord interests and have discovered this natural ability. Since 
it is widely acknowledged that the ban on drugs actually benefits the 
drug interests by keeping prices high in a market where demand 
elasticity is considered inelastic, it can be understood that these 
interests have an incentive to make an abusive use of telepathy in 
order to destabilize those individuals who acquired telepathy through 
the use of drugs (by no means the only way) and give reasons to keep 
the ban on drugs, since the natural (?) outcome of their use is to 
acquire telepathic abilities and that channel can be used to `suggest` 
socially aberrant behaviors, not to mention thehigh levels of noise 
individuals would experience. 


As druglords have gunmen and distributors, it can be postulated the 
existence of `armies` of telepaths dedicated purposefully to destablize 
individuals with telepathic abilities (schizophrenia), *whether that 
ability is acquired through drug use or not*. It makes sense, as the 
link drugs-schizophrenia-aberrant behavior is a natural reason to keep 
the ban on drugs, in a (futile?) attempt at keeping the bad 
consequences of schizophrenia-telepathy to a minimum. The original 
motive to ban marihuana was that it would turn individuals into 
murderers; this consequence can be conceptually traced to a purposeful 
use of telepathy to make affected individuals commit crimes after 
`hearing voices`. Thus the closed system is established in which drug 
use leads to telepathy-schizophrenia which in turn leads to bannng 
drugs, which in turn leads to high returns in the drug market which in 
turn gives the purchase power necessary to keep individuals playing the 
role of destabilizers. Since by its nature this channel is difuse and 
the source of the messages can`t be tracked it is very difficult if not 
impossible to stop those individuals in charge of making sugggestions 
which, in individuals with little understanding or propensity to crime 
will result in crimes commited under the influence of drugs (even if 
that influence is not present at the moment of commiting a crime). 


Of course it must be acknowledged that these causality relations are in 
no way absolutely necessary or lineal and depend on each individual`s 
basic nature; not all schizophrenics commit crimes, not all criminals 
use drugs or are schizophrenic, not all telepaths receive the messages 
(particularly if they are not well known), not all telepaths acquired 
the ability through drug use, etc. In effect this amounts to a 
stochastic phenomena where consequences and causal relationships are 
more probabilistic than lineal, though even then the drug interests 
still have the incentive to constanttly attempt to destabilize and 
render socially incapable (by comitting crime or experiencing a high 
level of noise) people who happen to have more telepathic abilities 
than the rest of humans. 


As was considered previously, this ability is both inherent to the very 
nature of the brain and a product of natural selection. The development 
of language as a communication tool must have had the effect of making 
the faculty dormant since spoken language is a more effective way to 
communicate groups of individuals, but then the lack of understanding 
of this ability, difficult to come by without modern day conceptual 
tools, provides an edge to groups who historically have had motives and 
resources to use/abuse the ability to the detriment of unaware 
individuals, further inhibiting the propagation of this natural 
capacity within the gene pool, by making individuals unable to follow 
normal lives (leaving offspring), either through suggestion or by 
totally disabling the individual. It is easy to think of old prophets, 
priests, shamans hearing voices, supposedly coming from `gods`, 
suggesting them the common saintly behaviours of mortifying the flesh, 
or trying to keep themselves pure as to avoid losing a `godly-given` 
ability, or even `escaping to the desert` to try to shut down the 
voices in an uncontrolled display of telepathy (the old notion of 
madness being an expression of saintliness), when in fact those voices 
where at least in some cases produced by people perfectly conscious of 
their particular power. It can also be easy to understand the medieval 
demonic expressions being caused by other individuals aware and in 
control of their ability, taking control of weak inviduals  (in the 
sense of the cognitive ability/training to understand the phenomenon) 
to either make displays of demon exorcising powers or simply for the 
`joy` of using the power to make other people act in madness (it must 
be remembered that the case of the Ludoun possessions began after a 
particular individual arrived to the convent). In this context we can 
speak of demons and angels as mean and good people sending good and bad 
messages to the credulous. In modern times, besides traditional 
motives, the desire to keep the ban on drugs gives a powerful motive to 
abuse this natural ability. 
Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


 
 
 




From the original thread in google groups. Search under "Fabrizio J Bonsignore".

Danilo J Bonsignore



Schizophrenia as Neurosis

If telepathy exists, severe schizophrenics (hearing voices) are very
popular (or impopular) people at the moment or before the illness
starts, while mild schizophrenics would be rather solitary or unknown
people. This can be correlated statistically through clinical
histories.


The idea was of course suggested by A Beautiful Mind. A huge
intelligence, if correlated to a more efficient use of brain
resources, would be more likely to have, lets call it the framework to
tune other minds, independently of the way the signals are transmitted
(see possibility of telepathy in my other posts). If that person goes
famous the quantity of information received through this channel would
be such that a severe schizophrenia would be manifest, although a high
intelligence would be able to handle the information overload without
breaking his ability to interact with others. Given that envy is one
of the most powerful human motives, short of love and downright hate,
a famous or popular person that is receiving the thoughts of others
would receive lots of negative thoughts, most of them envious
appreciations of the true personality. If coupled with a soft
character that depends on what others think, an overload of telepathic
jealous thoughts would lead to suicide, though this can be true even
if there is no overload but the receptive individual is constantly in
the mind of a judging somebody else.


Schizophrenia, or telepathy, may be more common than we admit because
of the fear of being called a schizo, psychotic. It may well be that
successful telepaths learned ways to avoid the extraneous channel from
disrupting their everyday life, while unsuccessful telepaths would
allow telepathy to interrupt their normal lives and would then show
the normal symptoms like speaking alone, distraction, impossibility to
concentrate or understand a conversation, etc.


If the hypothesis holds, schizophrenia can be treated as a neurosis,
an adaptation problem, through social deprivation and/or by distancing
from the community where the individual is well known.


The merit of this hypothesis is that it can investigated by revising
the current accumulated corps of clinical studies through the use of
statistics.


herbertglaz...@webtv.net (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in message ...
> Hi Fabrizio Showing that Treb transmits thoughts in my mind,and visa
> versa is not easy. If I did not know this to be true I would not post
> it. Think of it like an electron being in two places at once(True but
> go prove it) For me to know about Treb is based on our mutual acceptance
> that we both exist in very close spacetime. Are thought EM waves are
> received by us instantly. In reality there is no space between us. This
> makes things very "tricky",but not if you bring in the real universe of
> quantum weirdness.(we in the macro realm can't "relate" to Fabrizo I
> play chess with Treb(I know it) and you will say I'm playing chess with
> myself. (go figure)   Bert


I *may* accept what you say but then it can be a hallucination, a
mental problem (real schizophrenia, no offense) or telepathy. How do
you know it has to do with quantum weirdness? The difference is that
your hypothesis cannot be related at least given our current
knowledge, to any means of corroboration. the hypothesis I propose can
be both tested, however imperfectly through statistics and
corroborated, through application of the predicted therapy. In fact,
you can even test the predicted therapies having control groups.
Though your explanation may be sound, there is no way to cooroborate
and by the application of Occam's razor should be rejected. What
predictions can you make in case your hypothesis were true? If Bert
*really* knows, he knows much more than we do, so he should be able to
grant you advanced knowledge, advanced compared to our current state
of the art in science. YOu should be a great scientist, or at least be
ahead in technology, or sociology or, at the very, very least, have a
great and demostrabble originaluty and creativity assuming both
realities are so different that we can actually consider them two
different realities... If they are so similar, sorry, you must try
another explanation...




John Sefton  wrote in message ...

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> Uncle Al wrote:
> > "Fabrizio J. Bonsignore" wrote:

> >>If telepathy exists,


> > Bullshit.


> > Uplink and downlink bandwidth, channel crosstalk, radiated power. EEG
> > shows typical cerebral frequencies below 20 Hz. 6 billion people, 60
> > W between their ears. 360 billion watts 24/7 pushed into a 20 Hz
> > bandwidth. NO telepathy.



> > [snip crap]
> >>The merit of this hypothesis is that it can investigated by revising
> >>the current accumulated corps of clinical studies through the use of
> >>statistics.


> > Say the magic word, "ANOVA!" Ha ha ha. When did a psychologist ever
> > arrive at an empirically valid anything? Heteroskedasticity!


> I have perceived numerous instances of telepathy-
> and acted successfully in some instances because of them.
> But maybe it is something you have to let happen
> rather than make happen, and as such maybe it can't be
> controlled. Or probably one has to be able to control
> one's own thoughts before being able to perceive which
> are one's own and which are the other's.
> John



Thoughts distinguish themselves clearly. One morning I was very asleep
when I heard my mother yell my name with so much desperation that I
woke up immediately and jumped out of the bed to the kitchen, only to
find that she was frustrated opening the cat food can. The fact is
that both doors were closed and I heard her yell very clearly as if
she was in the room. I heard it in the back of my head. I woke up so
fast that I could distinguish that what I `heard` was not sound. She
looked befuddled when I told her that she had awaken me only to feed
the cats...


Joe   Oct 9, 2:54 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.physics 
From: jhelf...@umd.edu (Joe) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 9 Oct 2004 14:54:12 -0700 
Local: Sat, Oct 9 2004 2:54 pm  
Subject: Re: Proof for the existence of telepathy (schizophrenia as neurosis) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

As someone who has had some dealing with schizophrenia, and
schizophrenics, I have to say I found no evidence of telepathy. This
included for example being involved with some research at NIH and
their inpatient study on schizophrenics (or more specifically people
diagnosed with schizophrenia, or specifically people diagnosed by
DOCTORS, or even more simply, one group of people calling another
group of people a name, and that group turning around and calling the
other group a name). Although I was involved with some of their
research with MRI, PET scan, MEG, EEG, eye scan, medication changes,
and other various tests, I actually probably spent more time on the
psych ward interacting with the patients and the nurses than directly
with the researchers really. (For the time I was there.) I still
keep in touch with some of the patients over e-mail and other ways,
not so the reseaarchers. But anyway, I didn't find any evidence for
telepathy to say. I did though become curious in "hearing voices". 
For example, does John Edwards "hear voices" when he talks to the
dead? Do the people of the 700 club, when they get their "word of
knowledge" hear voices? etc.

Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Oct 10, 3:16 am 

You actually tested the hypothesis of telepathy? What do you consider
evidence? Because you didn`t experimenting somebody `reading` your
thoughts doesn`t mean the phenomenon doesn`t exist. That`s why I am
proposing a study that can bring light on the subject or dismiss it
completely for all time. But it must be performed by really
intelectually honest people for there interests to dismiss pr prove
false this interpretation. Non telepaths would feel jealous, real
telepaths may want to hide the fact (and their advantage), armies and
policemen would prefer to keep it secret if it is one of their secret
weapons, psychiatrists would resist change, parapsychologists would
lose their research grants, common people or others would feel scared,
etc.


jhelf...@umd.edu (Joe) wrote in message ...

> If you want to do these test go ahead. Good luck trying to find
> support at NIMH (although I don't know, they do do some weird tests
> their). But if you need volunteers, I'll sign up. You can test me
> with telepathy. (I don't think I have it.) [But to answer your
> question, no there weren't any telepathy tests done at the psych ward
> while I was there. I just base my conclusion off of personal
> experience.]


Sure, I guess there will be a lot of opposition, as I wrote in another
post of this thread. Have you ever had that experience of turning
around because you thought you heard something, like your name? That
could be a telepathic experience. But the tests I was thinking about
have more to do with lots of psychiatrists comparing their notes about
clinical subjects, crossing them with some measure of `popularity` and
dunping the results into some kind of statistical model to see if the
correlation is meaningful. The advantage is that you already have lots
of data to begin with and little chance to get biased data, though
some of the notes would have to be reassessed to extract or complete
information about the patient`s social life (maybe). I believe that
successful telepaths found a way to mix their telepathy with their
everyday life without ending up in a consultory.


jhelf...@umd.edu (Joe) wrote in message ...
> Fabrizio,

> > Sure, I guess there will be a lot of opposition, as I wrote in another
> > post of this thread. Have you ever had that experience of turning
> > around because you thought you heard something, like your name? That
> > could be a telepathic experience.


> I've had weird experiences, but I don't think I'm telepathic. Do you
> think you're telepathic? I have to warn you, you may want to be
> careful what you say, or the white coats may come after you. Has
> anyone ever asked you if you "hear voices"?



Everybody must hear voices every so often. It is a matter of how
distracted you are or not, to distinguish between a random noise and
thinking there was a voice in that random noise, or hearing youself
thinking, or imagining if you have a vivid imagination (;)~. But you
would have to go with leaded feet. In order to assess if you heard a
voice or not, you should get information you would not be able to get
other way. That would be telepathy. Otherwise it is your own mind
generating 


voices.
> But the tests I was thinking about
> > have more to do with lots of psychiatrists comparing their notes about
> > clinical subjects, crossing them with some measure of `popularity` and
> > dunping the results into some kind of statistical model to see if the
> > correlation is meaningful.

> What correlation are you looking for?



Severe schizophrenics must have had a really busy social life. I guess
you would have to get some measure from sociometrics. Then you would
need a measure about the severity of an individual`s schizophrenia
(psichiatrists must have some measure, though even a learned guess
would suffice for some kinds of statistical models). Then I expect a
positive correlation. The more social life, the more sever the
schizophrenia.



jhelf...@umd.edu (Joe) wrote in message ...
> Fabrizio,

> > Sure, I guess there will be a lot of opposition, as I wrote in another
> > post of this thread. Have you ever had that experience of turning
> > around because you thought you heard something, like your name? That
> > could be a telepathic experience.


> I've had weird experiences, but I don't think I'm telepathic. Do you
> think you're telepathic? I have to warn you, you may want to be
> careful what you say, or the white coats may come after you. Has
> anyone ever asked you if you "hear voices"?



Everybody must hear voices every so often. It is a matter of how
distracted you are or not, to distinguish between a random noise and
thinking there was a voice in that random noise, or hearing youself
thinking, or imagining if you have a vivid imagination (;)~. But you
would have to go with leaded feet. In order to assess if you heard a
voice or not, you should get information you would not be able to get
other way. That would be telepathy. Otherwise it is your own mind
generating 


voices.
> But the tests I was thinking about
> > have more to do with lots of psychiatrists comparing their notes about
> > clinical subjects, crossing them with some measure of `popularity` and
> > dunping the results into some kind of statistical model to see if the
> > correlation is meaningful.

> What correlation are you looking for?



Severe schizophrenics must have had a really busy social life. I guess
you would have to get some measure from sociometrics. Then you would
need a measure about the severity of an individual`s schizophrenia
(psichiatrists must have some measure, though even a learned guess
would suffice for some kinds of statistical models). Then I expect a
positive correlation. The more social life, the more sever the
schizophrenia.


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Oct 5, 3:26 am     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 5 Oct 2004 03:26:04 -0700 
Local: Tues, Oct 5 2004 3:26 am  
Subject: Re: Proof for the existence of telepathy (schizophrenia as neurosis) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  


nacam...@att.net (Richard Nacamuli) wrote in message ...

> It is possible that a person may become *telepathically* famous; that
> his mind might rise to high level in the collective mental community.


Of course not. You go famous in REAL life, and that makes people think
of you.


> He then might exhibit "delusions" of grandeur. I put the word
> "delusions" in quotes because this person would be famous only
> telepathically so. 


Not famous only telepathically, not necessarily *famous*. Popular. Say
100 people thinking of you? Imagine 100 people speaking at the same
time. Don`t go so far, imagine 10 people speaking at the same time...


> This would be no problem for a relatively strong
> person provided that he was consciously aware that we are telepathic.
> If not, he would not understand why, as it is obvious to him, that no
> one else can see that he is famous. 


Bad argument, you confused the order of causation. It doesn`t matter
if other people are aware of the target`s popularity.


>Similarly, other symptoms of
> schizophrenia would also come about not from being telepathic but from
> not being aware that one is telepathic and at a loss for understanding
> where all of this information is coming from and why others don't seem
> to see or understand it. 
>I agree that this would be a neurosis brought
> about by the inability to reconcile the physical reality with the
> mental reality. But, they are both reality. To a person comfortable
> with the notion of telepathy, this poses no special problem. It is the
> inability to "see" where it is coming from and probably more
> importantly *how* that results in a true mental disorder. It is,
> however, a circumstantial disorder like traumatic stress disorder with
> the only true remedy being a solid (and courageous) understanding of
> the circumstances. 


Or taking steps to destroy your popularity to bring down the level of
noise.


>As a side note, I believe that the population at
> large unintentionally does this to people. 


If they deny telepathy and it exists, it doesn`t matter what they
think. But there are philosophies about sinning even by thought...


>I think that they are
> looking for minds that can handle this telepathic world and so
> "elevates" the occasional (and susceptible) person in an attempt to
> pull itself up by its own bootstraps. After all, society would have to
> find a person that could understand and manage this situation in order
> for it to progress. It is telepathy looking for a home.


Xerxes  wrote in message ...

> Fabrizio J. Bonsignore wrote:

> > If telepathy exists, severe schizophrenics (hearing voices) are very
> > popular (or impopular) people at the moment or before the illness
> > starts, while mild schizophrenics would be rather solitary or unknown
> > people. This can be correlated statistically through clinical
> > histories.


> So you are saying what we all already know. If you are telepathic then 
> you are a nutcase, loony, and have fallen off your horse.
> Anything else ?


> Xerxes



Not a nutcase, lets say a person in a difficult situation. Severe?
Severe all ties to society to bring down the level of noise. Mild? Try
to find the other person. Would you let yourself be found?

Of course, there must be people whose brain is not telepathic at all
but actually *produces* voices. If it is indeed telepathy then at some
point you must find corroborations, informations you can not possibly
know about events you eventually observe in real life.


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Oct 5, 4:52 am     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:52:13 -0700 
Local: Tues, Oct 5 2004 4:52 am  
Subject: Re: Proof for the existence of telepathy (schizophrenia as neurosis) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

This explanation also matches the fact that schizophrenia manifests
itself with a characteristic pattern in life according to age. The
older you are the less likely it is you will get `ill`, both because
popularity comes early in life and because the older you are the more
life skills you have to adapt yourself to the phenomenon. The
telepathic ability may be latent the whole life for sensitive
individuals so that people who acquire popularity at age 40, say, have
had time and experience to handle the experience. It must be taken
into account that clinical schizophrenia is usually severe, so a life
of repression of the phenomenon associated to a sudden popularity late
in life would bring about a breakdown of the individual.


This life pattern may also be associated to brain aging as the
necessary brain resources to process the additional information of the
telepathic channel are constantly dwindling, though it must be more a
matter of structure (patterns of neural activation) than of sheer
brain mass what determines the relative ability of an individual to
behave telepathically.


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Oct 30, 5:28 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 30 Oct 2004 17:28:56 -0700 
Local: Sat, Oct 30 2004 5:28 pm  
Subject: Re: Proof for the existence of telepathy (schizophrenia as neurosis) 
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

Following the hypothesis of special structures (hardwired, maybe
special receptors in the brain [need of bindings? substances? drugs?])
or patterns of neuronal activation (softwired, trained) making
telepathy possible, which I have called resonators and whose function
is that of processing analogic signals to distinguish the
informational content from noise, it may be inferred that
*only*verbalized*thoughts* would be able to be transmitted
telepathically. There would already be a mapping from one brain to
another, assuming that the ability for languages is innate to the
human brain (Brocca area), and it would be that mapping, analogous in
all human brains, that which would provide the ability to recognize
telepathically transmitted signals, in the sense that it would provide
the templates against which to match (and therefore recognizing) the
signals. Non verbally formulated thoughts, even if transmitted through
whatever carrier it is recquired, would be harder and maybe impossible
to process, as the mappings from brain to brain may differ. In this
sense, the purest the language of a thought, verbal, images (mass
hallucinations?), sounds, emotions, the easier to transmit
telepathically. Empathy may well be telepathic transmission
(induction, reception) of emotions.


This hypothesis can be tested, as I explain in the thread
`Schizophrenia as Neurosis`


(Weird idea: subatomic particles preserving topologic information of
neuronal activations as carriers of signals?)


If you do research this ideas please give credit. Intellectual honesty
is the sign of the successful scientific.


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 17, 3:31 am     show options  

Newsgroups: ny.general,dc.general,seattle.general,sci.skeptic,sci.physics 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 17 Nov 2004 03:31:44 -0800 
Local: Wed, Nov 17 2004 3:31 am  
Subject: Re: Proof for the existence of telepathy (schizophrenia as neurosis) 
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Considering that telepathy may be an innate ability reinforced through
outside stimuli by turning it into the myth of a fearful mental
illness as schizophrenia would hide the fact that it is more extended
than supossed, bt supressed for the fear of being called a mental
case. This allows the possibility of confusing voices heard in the
mind, actually sent by another intelligence, however sporadically,
with real voices heard in the open. This open us up to manipulation,
as by repressing the possibility of an `inner voice` will make us
assume whatever heard was said by somebody near us, and if that is
insulting, a conflict will be started.


I can see this as one of the staff in the homeless shelter (damn
place) suddenly went violent and started pushing people around because
he heard somebody saying something about my mails! He said `I don`t
care nothing about your mails or your (somethng) or nothing, go back
to you chair`, and while I was on the other side of the room he ws
rather violent sitting down people. I`ve told nothing about my mails
in that place, how did he knew it is an issue? I didn`t even think
about them then, and nobody was taling as it was rather late and
lights going off. The man heard a voice inhis head, but he didn`t know
who said so, he simply assumed somebocy did and went violent. Maybe
somebody wanted him to think *I* insuted him with my comment?


Many conficts may have their origin in people hearing voices and not
acepting it happened in their mind, but not as an illness, but as
sheer manipulation of other people, or, assumed telepaths abusing
people under the myth of schizophreina being a grave illness that must
be repressed and denied.


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 1, 5:01 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 1 Nov 2004 17:01:23 -0800 
Local: Mon, Nov 1 2004 5:01 pm  
Subject: Schizophrenia and athletes 
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Can somebody tell me if there is a strong correlation between athletes
and schizophrenia in the 20-30 years range?


Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 13, 6:34 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 13 Nov 2004 18:34:29 -0800 
Local: Sat, Nov 13 2004 6:34 pm  
Subject: Re: Schizophrenia and athletes 
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"Frontiernet news"  wrote in message ...

> "Friend"  wrote in message 
> news:77eaa957.0411111306.5a345b2e@posting.google.com...
> > ********
> > *********
> > Friend Wrote:
> > Many Schizophrenics conclude their illness is telepathy or someone
> > sending messages into their head by radio transmissions. How else can
> > the voices be explained?


Could be explained by a neuron net subset independently and
automatically generating non random voices. Schizophrenics hold
conversations. I know as Ie been `visiting` homeless shelters were
people talk to themselves almost the whole day; and they have
conversations, they answer and wait, and you almost imagine them
speakin in a cell phone. And they argument. So it would be equivalent
to having an independent personality, though the multiple
personalities phenomenon shows that the personalities are actually
independent and exclusive (Sybil). Besides, I observed that the
conversatio also seem to be correlated: you can sense there is a
context in the conversations two or more shizophrenics, the kind that
talk to themselves exclusively, are having with themselves. Having
several of them is feels almost like being in a party discussing a
single event. This is my experience and observation in homeless
shelters, which as is known are an expression of the
desintitutionalizatio culture of mental health patients. Even a hard
schizophrenic which they call Rambo exhibits some comments that are
aspects of th conversations other shizophrenics in the same place
have.


> Please read something, anything in this area!


Read! I have first hand experience!


> First, don't ask "How else can the voices be explained?" Instead ask, "Can 
> the voices be explained that way, with a testable hypothesis?" The answer 
> is "No."


The damn testable hypothesis is the theme of thisthread and the other
thread I called Schizoprenia as neurosis. Use google groups to find my
threads and read themm before making comments. There is an index in
`My best threads...`


> Then look for other explanations. There are several good ones, borne out by 
> objective studies. One is that the brain fails to edit out random or 
> uncontrolled neuronal firing in the brain, and then interprets the nerve 
> impulses as something real. That hypothesis is strongly supported by 
> different types of studies, inlcuding the old lsd experiments.


My other hypothesis is that drugs act as signal rectifiers and maybe
channelizers fpr the signals that arre received by the brain. Mind
that we are talking MILLIONS of neurones and an even greater number of
interconnections. My approach is informatio theory and my own study of
neural network models and simulations through statistical mechanics
and oher methods (the perceptron capacity problem).


> Also, it could be normal types of talking to oneself, interpreted 
> incorrectly.


Also, but talking to yourself almost always entails explining yourself
to an imaginary interlocutor, as a preparation for an actual
conversatio. The difference is that talking to yourself is a voluntary
and controllable act: youdo it when you want; schizophrenia or
telepathy is independent of your will, you`re subject to the reception
of the signal, so if you lack the mental tools or powe to actually
istinguish the sgnals you receive from the real life, that is, the
capacity to ignore noise and concentrate, you would show
schizophrenia, clinical, and not a well adapted, functional telepathy,
as I suppose many humans experiment. (it is well know that... for
instance).


> And so on.

> You seem bent on finding superstitious explanations for phenomena instead of 
> looking for the science. This is a science newsgroup. Repeat: Science!



Read my above comments about my aproach and my other threads. I have
first hand `clinical` experience and a good theory independent of the
way signals are transmitted and a statistically testable hypothesis...

Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 13, 6:37 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy,sci.physics 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 13 Nov 2004 18:37:47 -0800 
Local: Sat, Nov 13 2004 6:37 pm  
Subject: Re: Schizophrenia and athletes 
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friendjoefri...@hotmail.com (Friend) 



wrote in message ...
> **********
> **********
> Friend Wrote:
> Yes, of course, (sigh!). My meaning is this:
> The schizophrenics conclude the voices are telepathy or radio signals.
> The schizophrenics reason this way: "How else can the voices be
> explained?" 


The transmission actually occur in the quantic realm, not in the
electromagnetic realm, but you can develop a theory without explaining
the actual transmission channel by considering the signal, the
information content. The quantic hypothesis may point to either new
particles in physics or a new form of testing theproperties of
particls outside of th realm of accelerators.

Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 14, 6:29 am     show options  

Newsgroups: sci.psychology.psychotherapy,sci.physics 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 14 Nov 2004 06:29:46 -0800 
Local: Sun, Nov 14 2004 6:29 am  
Subject: Re: Schizophrenia and athletes 
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O.Ryon Archer  wrote in message ...


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> On 13 Nov 2004 18:37:47 -0800, fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J.
> Bonsignore) wrote:


> >friendjoefri...@hotmail.com (Friend) wrote in message ...
> >> **********


> >> **********
> >> Friend Wrote:

> >> Yes, of course, (sigh!). My meaning is this:
> >> The schizophrenics conclude the voices are telepathy or radio signals.
> >> The schizophrenics reason this way: "How else can the voices be
> >> explained?" 

> >The transmission actually occur in the quantic realm, not in the
> >electromagnetic realm, but you can develop a theory without explaining
> >the actual transmission channel by considering the signal, the
> >information content. The quantic hypothesis may point to either new
> >particles in physics or a new form of testing theproperties of
> >particls outside of th realm of accelerators.


> There is no such thing as a 'quantic realm' except in your thought
> disorder. 


> You are simply not smart, as you think you are. You are just nuts. 


> Nobody is stealing your eyes, your mind, your thoughts, your semen,
> nothing. You have nothing worth stealing, you just try to convince
> yourself. 


> Time for your prolixin.



Which means:
a) you have vested interests in a dogmatic education that cost you
time, effort and money
b) you don`t have scientific interest: your world is given
c) your experience is limited
d) you never thought that a sudden condemnation of rented property
favorring tenants and against landlords, if the landlords are
compenasted through taxes (and no international interests provoke exit
of capitals) when conduted in a whole country is a pareto optimum
policy that leads to explosive development.
e) you don`t know any talking head...



I bet there are lots of cases of schizophrenia after or during a war...
Extreme situations must make the brain use all of its resources, maybe
in bursts until it learns how to make use of the "unseen" channel.
Problem is, who is being contacted? What if the people contacted is not
sane (really, logically sane) or well meant? This hypothesis can be
corroborated and added as further evidence to adrenaline being one of
the triggers of telepathy and maybe other phenomena of extreme
situations (urban legend: the hulk syndrome... jaunting? 8)).



Personal

For those who wonder, I was registered as Danilo in the US when I was born and then reregistered as Fabrizio in Mexico, after my grandmothers whim. I grew up being Fabrizio Jose Danilo, Fabrizio for short. When I put my papers in order, I changed my name to the original name in the US birth certficate, Danilo. I plan to change my name back to Fabrizio in the US. Or maybe I won't.... Anyway, Danilo Jose Bonsignore and Fabrizio Jose Bonsignore are the same person. That is me. Other people may call me with other names or nicknames... it seems my names have always been too difficult to spell correctly, so you may find several variations and pronunciations. I am the City of New York in a Homeless Shelter, courtesy of Mexican thieves stealing my mails. I went incommunicated, believe it or not. There are other theories in this site in this idrectory under the names threads#.htm. They were published in th egoogle groups from New York. there is no ROT 13 in there, if you do find ROT 13 THEN that is censure. 



Ifyou areinterested, I look french. I have blue eyes, brown hair with a white streak in the fronthead, white, short (5'6''), slim, triangular face, well proportioned features, well defined eyebrows, straight roundish nose, nails usually dirty (have to lve with a nail cutter), great whistler, etc. I wear usually sideburns, now a rim beard and have used a simple goatee. You would certainly distinguish me. Sometimes I look mischievous. I give the impression of a cat, a lion or a devil.


There is people from Mexico interested in appearing more itelligent and wise than they are to steal this theories. Be careful, don't get deceived, and if you are already deceived, report them to the police. I am having a VERY BAD time thanks to that people. Why is it so difficult to accept a man with several talents?


C8->




Post in bionet
Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of)
Only 1 message in topic  
 Fabrizio J. Bonsignore   Nov 8, 6:15 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: bionet.info-theory,bionet.neuroscience 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com (Fabrizio J. Bonsignore) - Find messages by this author  
Date: 8 Nov 2004 18:15:08 -0800 
Local: Mon, Nov 8 2004 6:15 pm  
Subject: Possibility of telepathy information theory (theory of) 
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Telepathy has been considered one of the phenomena for which science
can offer no explanation, and which therefore is relegated to the
category of superstition, though a very extended one. Most people have
lived at one time or another the `meaningful coincidence` experience
that leads to the belief in direct mind to mind communication; on the
other extreme there is the people who actually hear voices
continuously and who we consider `mentally ill`, or shizophrenics. Of
coursse there are serious teams around the world applying the
scientific method to the study of telepathy, with aparently little
results, though it is rumored that the military complex has also
performed research on the matter, with results being, of course,
classified.


People usually resort to mystic beliefs to explain telepathy, while it
is argued that there is no physical support for it. I believe
otherwise. Brains are composed of interconnected `simple` information
processors that use and generate electric fields to propagate their
signals. The resultant field is so powerful that we can even measure
it *through* the crain to obtain an EEG. The measured signal is
however quite undifferentiated, even though we know there is an
underlying order to it. On the other hand we know that electric fields
do have an effect over other fields... If we live in a continuous
reality we can safely assume that a given signal will diminish
continuously over time, evetually integrating in the background noise
but without losing its caracteristics. It simply becomes too weak to
be distinguishable, though it will affect the whole electric field
that surrounds us.


So it is just a matter of asking: has the brain enough computing power
to distinguish the effect on its own (generated) field caused by the
signals of other brains? We certainly go through life without
listening to others thoughts, but this may well be a learned
(evolutively or environmentally) response, maybe brough about by the
developmentof language. Sound is certainly a better, more reliable
information carrier than weak electric field interactions and so we
rely on it, but it is possible given the plasticity of the brain that
under certain circumstances groups of neurons `learn` to accept and
interpret this interactions and give them `meaning`, for instance, if
the individual is gradually losing aural acuity. It is even possible
to speculate on the organizaion of `resonator groups`, groups of
neurons that learn to fire when certain (analogous) signals affect the
brain`s field. This ability may well be the cause of the development
of certain forms of schizophrenia, like those that develop late in an
individual`s life, though it wouldn`t explain all schizophrenic cases.
We can even speculate that certain forms of schizophrenia become a
problem due to the `storm` of thoughts received and the inability of
the individual to deal with the new source of information. In fact,
many individuals may actually enjoy the benefits of telepathy without
suffering the ill consequences of schizophrenia because they are able
to process the increased quantity of information received through this
channel. I doubt telepaths would be anxious to tell the whole world
that they hear voices (sort of a secret society...), though many
psychics and entertainers around the world give this kind of shows.


The relation between the strength of the signals and the necessary
computing power to interpret and whether the brain can provide it is
amenable tom formal calculus. It may well be that Earth`s electric
field is more charged with meaning than what we usually think...



The Ghost In The Machine  wrote in message :...
> > There's also the little issue of power: the human brain
> > is reputed (and AFAICT it's a good estimate) to use 19%
> > of the 125W or so of a healthy adult young male's power.
> > (The value is more normally expressed in the units
> > 'kilocalories/day':
> > (125 Watts) / (1 (kcal / day)) = 2 581.26195

> > )
> > 19% * 125W = 23.75W.


The signal must be very weak, though a trained brain, i.e., a brain
using the `unused` capacity should be able to generate stronger
signals. But even the weakest signal, in a totally continuous Reality
(infinite within) can be distinguished from the rest of the signals
(noise), given enough computing power. So power is not an issue,
though propagation certainly takes time; in a sense no signal is ever
lost, only becomes infinitely weak as time passes.


> This wouldn't be too hard to detect were it broadcast
> in a standard carrier wave from a considerable distance
> (with a conventional dish antenna), but it's far from
> clear how the human brain could receive such a signal.


I envision something akin to the magnetization of iron by a strong
magnetic field, though I am interested in the computing power needed
vs the strength of the signal.


> The brain is also not a particularly organized transmitter;
> one can contemplate a human brain as consisting as a large
> number of minute spark gaps.


Those sparks are actually spread at least in two dimensions; I
_assume_ they would radiate like `ripples` in the surrounding
electromagnetic field, much like sound does, though I am not an expert
in this kind of phenomena.


> It is barely possible to contemplate a pair of "tuned
> brains" right next to each other sharing a thought, but
> that's about as far as telepathy can go; the brain cell
> that has the right frequency to broadcast "Aaah, pizza's
> coming" in brain 1 might be received by brain 2 as "Oh oh,
> my foot's being invaded by space aliens" for all I know.


Except there is a point in common which is language...


> (And that's assuming a single brain cell is responsible
> for that thought; my guess is that the thought "Aaah,
> pizza's coming" involves the synchronized firing in a
> certain sequence of various neurons 


The signal is certainly temporal, a series of activation patterns
`radiating` outwards toward infinity (?), or modifying by their simple
existence the whole state-of-the-world of the electromagnetic fields
surrounding us...


>including those in
> the smell/taste region of the brain, the thought that the
> delivery man came up in a truck (hearing), and perhaps
> the logo and/or general shape of the pizza (visual).
> With that hypothesis the receiver's firing pattern will be
> hopelessly scrambled; the rest of the brain will probably
> discard the signal as random noise.)


Even though specialized sensory brain centers may be involved in one
thought we can at least assume there is a common mapping among
individuals when it comes to language so that is the only part of the
signal we need to take into account, and very likely the structure of
the activations for any word or phrase should be roughly similar from
brain to brain; if this is true we would transmit and _receive_
thoughts only in the language or languages we actually practice, and
both the beginning and ending of the signals would be blurred until
there is a match between the pattern of the signal received and the
set of neurones trained to distingush the signal. Since spoken
language is composed of characteristic sounds, some words would be
easily transmited and received, while others would be hardly
distinguished. I suppose a trained brain would develop resonator and
amplifier clusters whith activation paterns deepening with practice,
specialized in `tuning` basic (phoneme? morpheme?) patterns before
sending them to the `language understanding` centers. I imagine these
centers analogically, like kind of key-keyhole pairs.

But this is going too far already. The issue is whether a brain can
dedicate and does have the computing power in terms of activations to
process the signals given that they must be very weak.


Assuming a human brain has enough computing power to `analogically`
process the influence on its own activity of the signals emitted from
other brains, and the existence of areas devoted to receive and
process those signals, that telepathic reception would be far more
potent when a) there`s people around and b) the individual is in a
closed environment.


In case a) the weak signals can `resonate` among brains, for the most
part unconsciously, to generate a stronger signal more easily
transmitted. This is equivalent to say that the fields of electric
activity of each individual`s brain get `aligned`, gnerating a
stronger signal. This stronger signal would be the sum of the original
`ambient` content of information and the results of the processing by
the brain. The more sensitive individual would experiment the net
result as a perceived sound or as an idea. This kind of phenomena may
lie behind the usual `coincidences` when two persons start talking at
the same time and say the same phrase (notwithstanding other
psychological or situational explanations), particularly after a few
minutes of keeping silence (how many would-be lovers end long
embarrasing silences this way?). In other words, people would act like
anthenas. This hypothesis may point to modifications in current
parapsychological experimentation.


As for b), closed environments would isolate many random disturbances,
makin it easier for the brain to process the modulation in the signal,
both in the case of direct electromagnetic perturbances as in the case
of other sensorial extractions.


Is it possible to prove telepathy exists? I believe not, unless
telepaths want to show it possible. A good experiment would involve
the coordination of spatially distanced individuals, making some noise
after a command is given telepathically. For instance: `All telepaths
say ok!` And then hearing lots of oks... The probability of many
people saying ok at the same time without coordinatio is so small that
it would prove the phenomenon beyond doubt, but it would need
cooperation, very difficult to obtain given the inclination of humans
to persecute whatever exceeds the normal capabilities of an
individual.


As to the evolution of telepathy, seen as a problem of computing power
against strength of signals it is very likely it can only be observed
in humans and maybe some big brained animals, like elephants and
dolphins. If corroborating telepathy in humans is a difficult problem,
doing so in other species looks like an impossible problem. It has to
be observed here that many problems of synchronization that are
popularly presented as evidence of animal telepathy are actually the
expression of global effects of local rules, like the ordering of
animals in flocks.


What should be evident is that, as a communication channel, it has
very low advantages over hearing, for instance, as it has no obvious
spatial relationship. If proximity were an element, it would be
superseded by hearing and sight, so it wouldn`t develop. And as a
remote sense, since it would be impossible to know the source, and
what`s more, to know whether the messages are tru or false, a lead or
a mislead, the information content would tend toward zero.


At most it is a phenomenon that develops as a side effect of brain
size, if at all. (To be honest, I was expecting somebody to offer the
calculus). But if it exists, then schizophrenia would acquire a new
meaning, as the neurosis of people who didn`t learn how to integrate
their disembodied messages with everyday life.


Imagine a telepathic individual who identifies signals meant for him
(people thinking of him), and he suddenly goes famous, lots of people
think of him. He not only would receive lots of messages but also,
given human`s inclination to jealousy, many evil thoughts. That
individual would experiment a cacophony, that may leave him unable to
cope with everyday affairs, a severe schizophrenia. This hypothesis
can be tested. Severe shizophrenics must be well known in their
communities, while mild schizophrenics would be almost unknown and
lonely individuals. I think of the moovie picture `A Beautiful Mind`.
This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It can
be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.



Michael Gray  wrote in message :...
> > The fist would need to separate cause from effect.
> > The schizophrenics that I know all displayed schizophrenic tendencies
> > before they became well known.
> > Their fame/infamy was mostly due to to their bizarre behaviour.

> > Schizophrenia leads to being well known.



This is really very interesting. Seeing the problem mechanically, we
would indeed be interested in causes and effects. But the hypothesis
is not that becoming well known is the cause of schizophrenia, only
that both circumstances occur simultaneously.

At some point there must be an innate or induced (drugs as triggers of
telepathy) telepathic ability. IF, from the outset, due to education,
character or innate (IQ) factors, the individual is _not_ able to cope
with telepathy, we would exhibit bizarre behaviour. Then he is well
known. Then his behaviour is even more bizarre. Etc. A classical
example of positive feedback, the system reinforces itself until the
individual`s behaviour is so bizarre that he can no longer live in a
social environment. He is excluded from society. Eventually as he is
forgotten (family size would be another factor: the more relatives
worried, the less the telepathic individual`s opportunty to recover,
[unless he learns to separate both sources of informatio, telepathy
and everyday life]), schizophrenia would diminish, making the
individual more `adapted to reality`.


What would be needed is a good numeric indicator (maybe a scale? would
be less effective as would involve human judgement) to relate both
factors, severity and social life (distinguishing now between society
in general and family).


Note that a particular individual may be `tuned` to other telepaths
*outside* of his immediate social circle, so there could be an
unaccounted residue, maybe from the very start of the adaptation
process. Because once started it becomes a process to which the
individual must adapt.



> How would you eliminate this factor from any tests?


It would recquire a more elaborate correlation model, a dynamic one,
taking into account the story of the individual. I don`t know if
clinic notes are complete enough to be useful as input to this dynamic
models. I do assume that initial correlations must be strong enough to
warrant more careful testing with volunteers (no medication, early
detection/treatment/studies, social deprivation, for different age
brackets).

And the models must contain at least age, social interaction, family
size and drug use as variables.



> >This approach may open new ways to treat certain types of telepathic
> >schizophrenia if this hypothesis can be tested and proven true. It can
> >be done by comparing the clinical notes of psichiatrists.

> That makes the wild leaping assumption that there is such a thing,
> well before it has even been sufficiently established, let alone
> proven.



The fact is that alternative therapies using this hypothesis as their
basis, if successful, would support the statistical correlation
method. Both research lines can be followed concurrently and reinforce
each other.

Note too that the *content* of the voices may acquire a new meaning
and lead to new testable hypothesis if seen as communication (signal)
rather than as noise.


Also, about telepathic ability triggers, it may well be that extreme
circumstances can enhance the innate ability to commune/perceive
thoughts. It would provide a certain survival advantage, particularly
while the human brain was evolving subjected to the pressures of
social interaction and the development of the faculty (how to call
it?) to murder.


A candidate substance would be adrenaline. It may well be that
sporting types may develop telepathy. There should be a correlation
too between exercising as a constant practice and schizophrenics. A
good percentage of schizophrenics were also good athletes. And,
supposing that there is an inverse correlation between intelligence
and the propensity to do sports (nothing indicates it should be so, it
would have no survival advantage, on the contrary, though the practice
of sports definitely competes in term of time with the development of
the `brain muscle`), the reason they develop schizophrenic is because
they lack the necessary intellectual tools to cope with the new
information (like, for instance, dwelling in endless arguments without
sense).


Of course, once the correlations begin showing, successful telepaths
would have an incentive to accept their ability without being
stigmatized (and `incarcerated`) as schizophrenics or people having
mental health issues...


Since signals must be weak and difficult to distinguish from noise, or
in other words, since noise is always present (composed from the sum
total of signals of all emissors) and signals are comparatively brief
and burst-like, the brain must be able to ignore the noise while being
receptive of signals. Resonators would have this capacity to
`resonate` or be triggered the moment noise matches the patterns gor
which it has been formed. It must be very difficult to receive and
interpret random signals, these must match in some form what the brain
already expects. Except for very strong broadcastings, pure thought
reading must be nearly impossible unless it is formulated in a form
that is already mapped by the resonators. Language, visions, emotions
would share this characteristic; also particular thoughts directed
*at* the individual would be relatively easy to pick up. The same way
doves and other birds are able to orient themselves in the magnetic
field of earth, as if they had an absolute positioning system, signals
may contain within themselves the information needed to distinguish an
individual or a group of inividuals. This is equivalent to the
hypothesis that even if we are not aware of it, our sense of position
in the world, and at least the notion of particular other individuals
is present in our brains in a distinguishable way. Should this
hypothesis be true, based on the computing power of the brain to
distinguish arbitrarily small signal to noise ratios, our uniqueness
as individuals can be expressed in a unique way by our thoughts, while
at the sme time we can be aware of our position in relation to other
individuals. We can identify individuals uniquely simply by thinking
of them, and once a link is established (a particular signal pattern
has been matched and anticipated) a connection may be permanent and
sef reinforcing in terms of plasticity of neural activations This
would explain why schizophrenics (who can be een as unadapated
telepaths at least for those individuals who do not contain real brain
damage [dificult to explain, besides, as it woud mean a set of nerons
clamped in perpetual self-activation, though with enough variation as
to simulate whoe strains of converstaion, hardly the product of a
truly damaged mind {multiple personalities, possible by partitioning
if the brain, usually are unaware of each other}], engage in long
conversations, which would mean a link has been established and
reinforced. Notie that according to the assumptios, the thoughts
(signals) exchanged must be recognizable by the receptive individual:
foreign languages, unknown words, notions, concepts and ideas would be
difficult to commuicate through this medium. This can be further
refined in terms of particular architectures of neural activation.


See also the thread `Schizophrenia as neurosis` for further discussion
of statistical proof.


Yesternight began to mourn
Yesternight began to mourn,
cowering face for being alone,
among floating voices of newfound souls,
night of magic among the gods...


All the secrets of this world,
of all the universes where I roam,
confronted by veils of occult words
they expect from me something
but I give none...


And hark to the Powers
who acquiesed to be seen
they acknowledged the existence
of a simple being...


Ten doors are wide open
to the marvels of yonder
alike in temptation,
and equal in wonder


And Hark to the Powers
who extend invitations
to live in the towers
where dwell all temptations!


All doors are wide open
and I shout my calls,
I follow the omen,
I cross all the halls...


The sirens are luring,
I follow my cause,
ten harpies in fury
there`s blood in the laws.


Collars of words snowing my mind
they try to say something
but they keep me blind,
a long chain of chances
for treasures to find.
Will they know it`s me?
Will I be maligned?
It is deep as the sea
the only one of its kind...


So I`ll go along
and leave a wake,
will sing the song
og being a Drake....




threads 1
threads 2
threads 3
threads 4
threads 5
threads 6
threads 7
threads 8
THeory of beliefs (model of browhaha)
Theory of conspiracy theory
The light at the end of the tunnel (Escape from Veracruz)
Home for All



 fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 31, 9:17 am     show options 

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From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 31 Jan 2005 09:17:27 -0800 
Local: Mon, Jan 31 2005 9:17 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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A very interesting and disquieting possibility that definitely must not 
be taken lightly is the existence of telepathy and higher cognition 
abilities in animals. The fact that all brains are inherently 
electrical devices suggests this possibility. It is recognized that the 
brain enjoys the property of plasticity, that is, it can readapt by 
`reprogramming` the neural activation patterns that constitute its 
processing faculty both to learn and to make up for the constant dying 
and damage of neurones. It doesn`t make sense, from an evolutive point 
of view, to have `tight` brains, brains that contain just the minimum 
necessary mass to accomplish their purpose; it would be far more 
economical to embed that knowledge in fixed, `mechanical` 
constructions, for instance, the automatic retina dilation to adjust to 
light. Living beings with tight brains would be at a disadvantage 
compared to beings having reseve capacity for *a given niche*. That 
additional capacity would habilitate them to learn and to keep working 
activation patterns despite the efects of the medium (medium here 
including the accumulation of free radicals in the organism). This 
means that even small brains have leeway to cope with unforseen 
circumstances, as is evidenced by rats being able to learn maze 
traversing abilities. 


But What about big brains, like those of lions, dolphins, whales, 
rhinocerous, gorillas, etc? This animals are not credited with thinking 
nor speech, but there must be taken into account two facts: the lack of 
adequate organs to emit articulated sounds (a BIG disadvantage even for 
humans with throat lesions), and the ability of brains (as receivers) 
to *magnetize*, that is, to accept the stimulation of stable neural 
activation patterns by the sheer circumstance of receiving those 
signals (in other terms, the electric field that constitutes the output 
of a brain gets combed). This would enable animals to achieve at least 
basic speech abilities that would be impossible to evidence vocally, 
but that through the radio channel of the brain would be obvious. Given 
also that animals lack hands and therefore don`t have to dedicate 
processing power to control such multipurpose manipulators, the 
additional brain capacity be devoted to trigger the kind of neural 
activations that are associated with language, speech and specifically 
telepathic communication... 
Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jan 31, 11:04 am     show options 

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Date: 31 Jan 2005 11:04:04 -0800 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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This phenomenon may well be the reason for the early shamanic and other 
religious cults centering in adoring animals, in eras when our species 
was still closer to irrationality than to the more elaborate functions 
of Reason: morality (good and evil), art, mathematics. The effect of 
animal minds simultaneously receiving the influence of human language 
as it was developed and exercising their influence (a sort of 
siumltaneous determination like that of algeraic systems), may well be 
the reason and real meaning of the now lost `state of harmony with 
nature`. These forgotten facts would have carried out throughout th 
ages while the species as a whole, without persitent records to 
remember and the lack of conceptual tools to explain, gradually lost 
thenatural ability or relegated it to the domain of religion. At some 
point, probably with the acquisition of writing in its diverse forms, 
the real origin of these early shamanic cults was forgotten, giving 
rise eventually to the antropomorphic myths and finally to monotheism. 
Early forms of common language would have been lost while the higher 
semantic and linguistic abilities of our species developed, leaving 
behind the limited possibilities of species lacking the influence of 
toolmaking to guide the development pf their brains. Once lost common 
frames of reference and intuitive understanding (after discovering 
harvesting probably, just before domestication), the influence of both 
teepathy and, to call it somehow, animal empathy, would have dminished 
to the point of being relegated to trance experiences, myth and 
superstition. 


But with the great biological success of th species in terms of 
populatio size, the sheer size and ,agnitude of th signals would be 
able to influence groups of animals or specific species to the point 
that the common ground was recovered,this time in human terms, but 
whithout the previous recognition of the telepathic ability (considered 
magic or `special`), leading to a situation where the mere possibility 
of human-animal mind communication is either considered fantasy, 
science fiction or mere `wishful thinking`. Yet it is the number of 
humans and the accumulated effect of our activity and the signals 
produced by our brains what would again enable at least certain species 
to recover the link and even acquire basic reasoning and linguc 
functions (particularly if we understand that language is in essence a 
combinatorial exercise where meaning is extracted both from the 
consensus regarding the reference framework as well as the relationship 
between speech elements, that is, context, the way it is understood in 
transformational [non context-free] grammars). From this perspective, 
so called irrational animals would be able to manipulate meaningful 
enough phrases and sentences as to provide a certain level of 
communication, but without achieving the deep understanding that two 
human minds can establish. This scenario would further explain the more 
damaging effects of schizophrenia in human beings, when a given ability 
may be able to tune certain signals and discard another; partial or 
incomplete telepathic ability would be more damaging than full 
transmission if it tunes to the incomplete and almost meaningless (echo 
signals) from lower species animals, much like parrots repeat phrases 
without being really adequate to context (a parrot with a big brain, 
maybe within the possibilities of current genetic experimentation, 
would be able to establish a meaningful conversation). 


Though these statements are logically sound and have some supportive 
evidence without having complete proof (which in turn would experiment 
the same difficulties as trying to prove it with human parties 
unwilling to give away their ability), the mere possibility presents 
terrifying possibilities once understood its potential. For one, lower 
species would be unable to really understand our contexts and would 
then cause a lot of damage by repeating mindlessly or with not enough 
understanding phrases picked up at random, particularly if the effect 
of these signals is felt and enacted unconsciously. In a way, we are 
their enemies, and basic survival instincts couples with a basic 
understanding the problem can very easily lead to basic but effective 
strategies, particularly the simple one, maybe acquired through long 
time efforts, of triggering self-defeating behaviours. But then it is 
also possible that big brains, like those found in ocean animals, have 
even bigger cognitive abilities than we have, basic or even advanced 
understanding of human psychology (what is it that whales sing about?) 
and telepathic abilities, (though it would be difficult for them to 
understand things such as computers, for instance), and their effect is 
greater than we think of. This phenomenon would be evidenced not in the 
course of days but would be built throughout centuries, as the sum of 
the signals (combing of the field), is propagated throughout the 
planet, much in the waythe proponets of Gaia thories explain. 
Furthermore, the real possibility of the emergence of distributed 
intelligences in small species like insects (ants, bees) or the also 
real possibility of long lived forms of consciousnesses as, perhaps, 
those formed by chorals and anemonas or bigger life forms lying deep in 
the ocean (the legend of the kraken), present an even more complex 
scenario than currently admitted, which, because our ignorance of it, 
has not undergone proper and extensive research, even when it can 
account for phenomena such as the sudden downfall of jungle cultures 
(mayans, tiahuanacans) and other small area effects. 
Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Feb 1, 2:49 am     show options 

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Date: 1 Feb 2005 02:49:44 -0800 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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It is now known that flock behaviors can be explained without recurring 
to mechanisms of centralized control, as it is just necessary to assume 
the existence of basic sets of local (individual`s) rules that when 
applied by each individual result in organized, meaningful group 
behavior, but this fact does not preclude the existence of other forms 
of synchronization that would have a clear survival advantage. A 
combination of both methods, local rules *and* automatic group 
synchronization provide a more accurate and efficient method to 
guarantee the survival of a species` group. Thus, local rules can 
ensure that birds, fish, antelopes, don`t crash into each other while 
fleeing a threat, but the kind of synchronization provided by a 
field-like transmission of, lets call them, intentions, would help the 
group flee in the *same* direction instead of performing a disorderly 
escape. This phenomena can be better studied through models taken from 
slow motion films of animal flocks escaping danger even if the brain 
generated electric fields involved are too weak to be detected. The 
flow of movement (signal transmission) from the moment an individual 
feels danger to the moment when the whole group is organized on the 
march can be analyzed to discover whether the individual`s variations 
in direction during the initial, disconcerting moment follow a random 
pattern or the deviations are too small for a complete application of 
local rules. Variables such as the origin of the threat signel (smell, 
sight, sound) or whether the alarm is given by a member of the group or 
is external to the group would influence the analysis, but for an 
accurate computer emulation of actual films it should be feasible to 
generate (synthesize) efficient, simple rules to simulate actual group 
behavior and test them against sets of rules incorpoating a synchronous 
mechanism of group decision to assess which of both models better 
explains and simulates real life behaviors. A priori, it is easy to see 
that even a minimum hypothesis of synchronous decision would result in 
keeping local rules simpler. A big enough study, including life span 
tracking of individuals through microchips (if possible), would also 
help to assess these phenomena regarding their survival value for the 
individual. 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Feb 11, 5:46 am     show options 

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Date: 11 Feb 2005 05:46:54 -0800 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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If we acknowledge that at least some drugs lead to 
schizophrenia/telepathy and because they are banned likely users are 
criminally oriented or frustrated people (homeless) and through 
ignorance or fear of being called psychopaths receiving telepaths are 
very likely to consider the `messages` as priviledged information or, 
worse, don`t ven now consciously that they are receiving messages, it 
means that a lot of power is being given to wrong segments of the 
population, not to those who would be the most socially responsible but 
to those who are probably the most resented. Under this hypothesis 
telepathy has a adverse social effects for most of the information 
would be meaningless or damaging or purposefully used for evil 
purposes. Wide acknowledgment of this phenomenon would diminish the bad 
consecuences of this natural ability, socially speaking. 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   josephus   Feb 11, 7:15 am     show options 

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:15:30 GMT 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> If we acknowledge that at least some drugs lead to 
> schizophrenia/telepathy and because they are banned likely users are 
> criminally oriented or frustrated people (homeless) and through 
> ignorance or fear of being called psychopaths receiving telepaths are 
> very likely to consider the `messages` as priviledged information or, 
> worse, don`t ven now consciously that they are receiving messages, it 
> means that a lot of power is being given to wrong segments of the 
> population, not to those who would be the most socially responsible but 
> to those who are probably the most resented. Under this hypothesis 
> telepathy has a adverse social effects for most of the information 
> would be meaningless or damaging or purposefully used for evil 
> purposes. Wide acknowledgment of this phenomenon would diminish the bad 
> consecuences of this natural ability, socially speaking. 

> Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



sigh, 
     Telepathy is not the problem with schizophrenia. proper treatment 
is. and no I dont think they get proper treatment. 
                 josephus 

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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Feb 12, 9:51 am     show options 

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Date: 12 Feb 2005 09:51:17 -0800 
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Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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josephus wrote: 
> sigh, 
>      Telepathy is not the problem with schizophrenia. proper 
treatment 
> is. and no I dont think they get proper treatment. 
>                  josephus 


The working hypothesis is that schizophrenia *is* telepathy as 
telepathy is very easily explained by what is known of the brain and 
can be corroborated taking into account the social obstacles to its 
research, its meaning and taking the working hypohesis as true. What 
would be proper treatment? It would be like blinding a person because 
he/she can see in the infrarred spectrum. Somebody with that ability 
would be able to tell certain illnesses and tell if somebody is 
sexually excited or not, giving a slight advantage over the rest of the 
people to get willing partners, for instance. 

Reply 
 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Feb 12, 10:25 am     show options 

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Date: 12 Feb 2005 10:25:47 -0800 
Local: Sat, Feb 12 2005 10:25 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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One disturbing consequence of the last argument is that, granting the 
possibility to exercise influence, suggestions or downright control 
over others by applying a socially unrecognized phenomenon, and 
assuming it is granted by the use of certain drugs, then it would be 
the drug addicts 
theselves who would be interested in keeping the ban on drugs and 
reducing control, since it would give them power over the rest of the 
unsuspecting individuals, except for those cases when 
schizophrenia/telepathy (maybe should be better termed telepathic 
schizophrenia, as real schizophrenia due to defective brains can also 
be possible), is either a natural ability or triggered by causes not 
associated with drugs, like life threatening conditions, exercise, 
meditation, etc. 


Another consequence of note would be that, since schizophrenia can be 
socially disruptive for the individual, therefore condemning he/she to 
a dependent lifestyle, such condition would per se generate in the 
affected individual social resentment, which can be consciously or not 
expressed by the negative use of this ability. Besides real 
perturbances in the functioning of the individual as a rational, social 
being, the resented individuals with enough control of their selves but 
with low socioeconomical positions due to their ability, disregarding 
whether those positions are directly or indirectly caused by their 
telepathic ability, would be prone to use their ability to *attack* 
susceptible individuals, suscetible not only because they are 
influenced by hearing or *not hearing* voices but because they trigger 
the resentement of lowlife telepaths and mentally disturbed telepaths, 
as can be the case for artists, politicians, scientists, journalists, 
in sum, people who are by some or other reason well known by the 
public. Such people would be more vulnerable during their first steps 
as celebrities, being forgotten after being successfully or 
unsuccesfully able to withstand such kind of `psychic` attacks. 


This possibility affects interestingly enough the corroborating 
hypothesis advanced in `Schizophrenia as Neurosis`, that well known 
individuals would experience severe cases of schizophrenia and 
disorientation, while less known individuals would only experience 
slight or hardly noticed schizophrenias. A self reinforcing, even 
self-referential system is thus created in this way: 


(some deed) -> celebrity -> attention by telepaths -> ceeb. 
schizophrenia -> more deeds -> more celebs. schizophrenia -> ... 


til the individual is either destroyed, stops attracting attention or 
loses the interest of the mass of bad faith/perturbed telepaths. 


It would then be important not only to perform multidisciplinary 
scientific studies under the working hypothesis to rove its existence, 
but also to destroy the social stigma associated to schizophrenia as a 
destroying illness that *per force* condemns the individual to a life 
of failure, loss and poverty the moment it is recognized by him or by 
others in him. Breaking the stigma would free individuals to assume 
their telepathy and to advance scientific studies without the active 
blocking of those having this ability. It would even be worth trying to 
provide telepathic individuals disabled by working schizohrenias or 
condemned as such by recognized schizophrenias with all the facilities 
of a well jobed life, as a way to reduce their resentement and the 
possible bad consequences for the rest of people. This possibility can 
even be recognized and taken advantage of by dubious interests. Indeed, 
the possibility to influence by suggestion and at distance unsuspecting 
individuals can be turned for the better, as it can be used as positive 
reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement. 


Incidentally, well known, growing celebrities can even trigger 
`epidemias` of mild to severe schizophrenia if it is taken into account 
that the attention of multiple individuals thinking at that person 
would generate signals strong enough to be received even by otherwise 
non teleathic individuals, who again would deny the phenomenon for fear 
of being sigmatized as `metally ill` people. As always, a repressed 
condition can lead itself to other problems, particularly if the 
`messages` received are negative and hard to swallow alone, but are 
supressed and not discussed as the source is, socially seaking, a 
forbidden source... 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Feb 12, 10:45 am     show options 

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From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 12 Feb 2005 10:45:36 -0800 
Local: Sat, Feb 12 2005 10:45 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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For example, an individual can be destroyed in bad faith by spreading 
rumors through this channel and making believe other people false facts 
about him or her. Bad gossip, til everybody knows *somehow* many untrue 
facts and lies, creating prejudice and resistance to an otherwise 
likeable individual. In the same way an otherwise nonnotorious 
individual can become a heroe or a celebrity by spreading good rumors 
and congratulations til everybody assumes *somehow* that that 
individual is somebody who deserves opportunities. Unfortunately, 
resented, envious individuals will tend to spread dirt on people who 
would achieve a better station in life than what they can, the more 
possibilities being contrarrested with more dirt/ 


Should some group had realized this possibilities, such group can use 
them to advantage to acquire power, as long as the phenomenon is not 
widely recognized, both in its possibilities and its dangers. Note that 
very perturbed individuals with telepathy *and* other illnesses or 
crimina propesities such as crime can in this way be manipulated by 
clever, self conscious and controlled people to commit crimes in an 
absolutely impossible way to track but by recognizing the possibility 
and researching through indirect ays. This kind of crimes would only be 
noticed by the victim and would leave no evidence (!), though they can 
be uncovered by following strings of coincidences and unexplainable 
lucky strains. It should be remembered in this context that telepathy 
by its very nature works first of all by thinking *at* the individual, 
by knowing him beforehand to take advantage of the natural ability of 
the brain (in systems, a daemon), to recognize those signals that refer 
to himself or to know people, the same phenomenon as distinguishing our 
name over the noise of a party (the bran by itelf would selforganize to 
keep noise to a minimum to help have attention focused; faiures in this 
mechanism can lead to really severe and natural forms f disabilitating 
schizophrenia). This would provide clues as to the intellectual actors 
of such kind of criminal activity. 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 4, 2:17 pm     show options 

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Date: 4 May 2005 11:17:57 -0700 
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fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> > Since telepathy has the same property of radio/TV communications of 
> > crossing boundaries, it should be clear that people in jails may, 
> > through this medium, have a relevant activity in the outside world! 
> > Being in jail would not be sufficient to avoid people from having a 
> > relevant activity and influence others, even to the point of 
> exercising 
> > criminal leadership... Of course, giving antipsychotics would be a 
> > natural form of preventing this form of influence. Yet it must be 
> taken 
> > into account the source of the telepathic ability, whether it is 
from 
> > the use of substances (drugs, not only illegal but other substances 
> not 
> > recognized as triggers of telepathy, which can be treated with 
> binding 
> > molecules), emotional (anguish, fear, which could be treated with 
> > appeasing ambiences) or natural (wiring, either genetic or 
> programmed), 
> > which may be *untreatable* (autism)... 

> > It should be mentioned here that it may be possible to trigger 
> > telepathies *from the outside*, through the purposeful and trageted 
> > magnetization of brains by convergent efforts from trained 
telepaths. 
> > The combined signal would, through the learning abilities of the 
> brain 
> > (plasticity) eventually generate the necessary "circuitry" to tune 
> the 
> > signal. This is important, since a completely normal individual may 
> be 
> > thus magnetized and *then* suffer a schizophrenia (losing contact 
> with 
> > reality), by the application of clever techniques of convincing as 
> > mentioned previously. 


> > Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


> As a note, the stregth of the signal must vary from individual to 
> individual. It poses the problem of the distance of transmission. For 
> some cases, isolation may be the better option. Too many 
schizophrenics 
> would feed their fantasies and create fantasy worlds, to the 
detriment 
> of their "being in the world". Other telepaths must be able (who 
> knows?) to reach the whole world! This powerful individuals may be 
able 
> to reach non telepaths and "magnetize" them, though given that there 
> are cuatrillions of connections and radios can be created with 
nickels, 
> most, if not all, humans must be able to hear voices, at least 
> ocasionally... 


> Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



Regarding strength of signals, should lots of individuals enjoy a 
strong transmissin power, the net result would be such level of noise 
that the brain would automatically disregard the signal, canceling out 
the effect. 

Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 4, 2:32 pm     show options 

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Date: 4 May 2005 11:32:11 -0700 
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fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> As a note, the stregth of the signal must vary from individual to 
> individual. It poses the problem of the distance of transmission. For 
> some cases, isolation may be the better option. Too many 
schizophrenics 
> would feed their fantasies and create fantasy worlds, to the 
detriment 
> of their "being in the world". Other telepaths must be able (who 
> knows?) to reach the whole world! This powerful individuals may be 
able 
> to reach non telepaths and "magnetize" them, though given that there 
> are cuatrillions of connections and radios can be created with 
nickels, 
> most, if not all, humans must be able to hear voices, at least 
> ocasionally... 
Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


One possibility not to be forgotten is that this ability, as radio 
waves or even as a quantum phenomenon (like the tunnel effect), may be 
used for interplanetary communications. Though an electromagnetic 
mechanism has been implied (even if the argument for the possiblity is 
that computing power in the rain is enough to process any disturbances 
in the electrical workings of the brain and interpret them as 
meaningful signals), should similar phenomena take effect in the 
quantum level or through superstring-like transmission methods, this 
ability would be effective to communicate planets through long 
distances. In this case the language mappings would be missing, but 
assuming topologically equivalent mappings for visual spectrum signal 
processing (the networks interpreting visual data are simlar in 
topology), one of te reasons for the failure of the SETI and similar 
projects would be that most of the signals available to be decoded are 
not produced nor transmitted by mechanical or digital equipments, but 
directly by intelligent (and non intelligent) minds! It means that the 
form of the signals, instead of being digital and numeric (binary) as 
scientists look for, would be analogical and similar to EEG waves, and 
should be decoded by receptors assuming simlar (analogical) 
configurations like those of the visual cortex. It is interesting to 
consider that these brain structures might actually be evolutively 
dependent on the structure of the visual spectrum wave frequencies, in 
the sense that brains would evolve matching the external constraint of 
interpreting information in given frequencies. In this case, we would 
actually lack the brain structures needed to see in the infrarred and 
UV  (or higher and lower) frequencies and the images we would be able 
to receive and decode would be limited to our sensory equipment (for 
people with tis ability) or would come out diffuse and blurred in case 
the emissors are actually used to interpret a different spectrum... 

These ideas point to the possibility (even the necessity) of developing 
special analogical hardware to receive and decode electrimagnetic 
information coming from outer space. Soft approaches may be sufficient 
to begin with, but fully analogical and parallel systems would be more 
adequate. 


Fabrizio J BOnsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 8, 9:16 am     show options 

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Date: 8 May 2005 06:16:41 -0700 
Local: Sun,May 8 2005 9:16 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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It must be mentioned that telepathy has also military applications. In 
fact, it can be used as a weapon of mass destruction, though 
destruction wouldn't be the right word! A mass weapon of some sort... 
as very likely all humans have the ability to *at least* receive 
thoughts, since the framework, that is, the computing and electric 
capacity to receive signals and decode them is ingrained in the 
species. The dangerous aspect of this application is that since people 
cannot really be identified through this channel, those originating the 
thoughts and using this ability for bad purposes can remain hidden. It 
is easy to lie through ths channel: the subtle cues that people use to 
distinguish truth from lies are missing, yet the fact that people know 
they are not crazy and are receiving messages give these messages an 
authority that may be lacking in other media, particularly if the 
message is attractive either in content or form (nice voices). It is 
easy to impersonate other people and "make believe". The real danger is 
that people may not be aware of receiving messages and they are not 
really able to reply; a one sided communication leaves people 
defenseless before powerful emitters, psychics, but also those who are 
perturbed independently of the telepathic ability... 


Fabrizio J BOnsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 8, 9:43 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 8 May 2005 06:43:45 -0700 
Local: Sun,May 8 2005 9:43 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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The metaphor of the brain as computer has already been exploited by the 
neurolinguistic approach, but combined with the possibility of 
telepathy it takes a new dimension. Human brains can be programmed from 
afar! Even without any physical or situational trigger for telepathy, a 
powerful enough signal (maybe acquired through physical means or 
through meditation or any other means), can be used to "impress" on 
other people thoughts they wouldn't have, turning them into "psychics" 
by that simple resource. ONce the signal is being recognized, by 
conscious effort in isolating the signal the brain would eventually 
learn how to access those subsystems of the brain that actually 
receive, decode, and emit though signals. In other words, real psychics 
can turn other people into psychics by directing their thoughts at them 
if they have powerful enough emissions. Powerful telepaths shouddl be 
able to broadcast, less powerful telepaths would only be able to 
impress thoughts up to some distance or only onto some people... 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 8, 9:59 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 8 May 2005 06:59:45 -0700 
Local: Sun,May 8 2005 9:59 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Remember those figurines of the three monkeys? 


Can't see, can't hear, can't talk! 
   - a telepath after losing his ability 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 8, 2:58 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 8 May 2005 11:58:18 -0700 
Local: Sun,May 8 2005 2:58 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> It must be mentioned that telepathy has also military applications. 
In 
> fact, it can be used as a weapon of mass destruction, though 
> destruction wouldn't be the right word! A mass weapon of some sort... 
> as very likely all humans have the ability to *at least* receive 
> thoughts, since the framework, that is, the computing and electric 
> capacity to receive signals and decode them is ingrained in the 
> species. The dangerous aspect of this application is that since 
people 
> cannot really be identified through this channel, those originating 
the 
> thoughts and using this ability for bad purposes can remain hidden. 
It 
> is easy to lie through ths channel: the subtle cues that people use 
to 
> distinguish truth from lies are missing, yet the fact that people 
know 
> they are not crazy and are receiving messages give these messages an 
> authority that may be lacking in other media, particularly if the 
> message is attractive either in content or form (nice voices). It is 
> easy to impersonate other people and "make believe". The real danger 
is 
> that people may not be aware of receiving messages and they are not 
> really able to reply; a one sided communication leaves people 
> defenseless before powerful emitters, psychics, but also those who 
are 
> perturbed independently of the telepathic ability... 

> Fabrizio J BOnsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



As for military applications, following the link between certain drugs 
as triggers of telepathy and the tolerance for the use of drugs in 
Mexico gives that country the ability to harness lots of, lets call it, 
"psychic power" to influence both psychics (through deception) and non 
psychics (through subliminal persuasion) to... there can be many 
possibilities to cause damage and harm upon an unsuspecting, civilian 
population. Actually, it may well be that the real effect of substances 
in the brain is not only that of triggering telepathy but that of 
granting the brain more potent emissions. I believe this strategy is 
being pursued as a means to level a weak covert military power against 
a big open military power, in a long term strategy. In any case, paying 
attention to voices is dangerous, though it should be more dangerous to 
act according to unnoticed suggestions... 

Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   May 25, 5:29 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 25 May 2005 14:29:03 -0700 
Local: Wed,May 25 2005 5:29 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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A very real possibility, considering that telepathy can be moer 
extended than though and even be an *inherent* trait in whole 
populations (endemic schizophrenia), is that of triggering mass 
psychosis by the 'simple' resource of convincing people, through 
broadcastings and psychological tools, of the existenc of realities 
whose sole susteinance is that of being attributed to a superior power, 
taht of the telepath talking to them in their mind as "chosen" beings. 
Several forms of manipulation can be effected upon a hole population to 
make them act in forms that go against their own well being... 


Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> > It must be mentioned that telepathy has also military applications. 
> In 
> > fact, it can be used as a weapon of mass destruction, though 
> > destruction wouldn't be the right word! A mass weapon of some sort... 
> > as very likely all humans have the ability to *at least* receive 
> > thoughts, since the framework, that is, the computing and electric 
> > capacity to receive signals and decode them is ingrained in the 
> > species. The dangerous aspect of this application is that since 
> people 
> > cannot really be identified through this channel, those originating 
> the 
> > thoughts and using this ability for bad purposes can remain hidden. 
> It 
> > is easy to lie through ths channel: the subtle cues that people use 
> to 
> > distinguish truth from lies are missing, yet the fact that people 
> know 
> > they are not crazy and are receiving messages give these messages an 
> > authority that may be lacking in other media, particularly if the 
> > message is attractive either in content or form (nice voices). It is 
> > easy to impersonate other people and "make believe". The real danger 
> is 
> > that people may not be aware of receiving messages and they are not 
> > really able to reply; a one sided communication leaves people 
> > defenseless before powerful emitters, psychics, but also those who 
> are 
> > perturbed independently of the telepathic ability... 

> > Fabrizio J BOnsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


> As for military applications, following the link between certain drugs 
> as triggers of telepathy and the tolerance for the use of drugs in 
> Mexico gives that country the ability to harness lots of, lets call it, 
> "psychic power" to influence both psychics (through deception) and non 
> psychics (through subliminal persuasion) to... there can be many 
> possibilities to cause damage and harm upon an unsuspecting, civilian 
> population. Actually, it may well be that the real effect of substances 
> in the brain is not only that of triggering telepathy but that of 
> granting the brain more potent emissions. I believe this strategy is 
> being pursued as a means to level a weak covert military power against 
> a big open military power, in a long term strategy. In any case, paying 
> attention to voices is dangerous, though it should be more dangerous to 
> act according to unnoticed suggestions... 


> Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



Reply 
              
      

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jun 1, 11:08 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 1 Jun 2005 08:08:43 -0700 
Local: Wed,Jun 1 2005 11:08 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Now consider this scenario: a telepath makes contact with a closed mind 
and begins outpouring information. This information is meant to 
establish contact, through the particular characteristics of the medium 
(see in another thread the model in the Theory of Beliefs scheme). If 
the target works as expected, through belief and manipulation, the 
telepath has a tool for own goals. Mainly, it should be able to 
establish contact personally to be recognized. Recognition can be 
achieved through sveral ways, unilateral or bilateral. But if the 
target doesn't work as expected then a psychosis can be triggered. In 
that case the target may end up commiting some crime! Schizophrenic 
related crime. In that case the target is easily recognize through the 
particular characteristics of the crime, including the moment it was 
commited. 


Danilo J Bonsignore then Fabrizio J Bonsignore again Danilo J 
Bonsignore 



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> A very real possibility, considering that telepathy can be moer 
> extended than though and even be an *inherent* trait in whole 
> populations (endemic schizophrenia), is that of triggering mass 
> psychosis by the 'simple' resource of convincing people, through 
> broadcastings and psychological tools, of the existenc of realities 
> whose sole susteinance is that of being attributed to a superior power, 
> taht of the telepath talking to them in their mind as "chosen" beings. 
> Several forms of manipulation can be effected upon a hole population to 
> make them act in forms that go against their own well being... 

> Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


> fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> > fbonsign...@beethoven.com wrote: 
> > > It must be mentioned that telepathy has also military applications. 
> > In 
> > > fact, it can be used as a weapon of mass destruction, though 
> > > destruction wouldn't be the right word! A mass weapon of some sort... 
> > > as very likely all humans have the ability to *at least* receive 
> > > thoughts, since the framework, that is, the computing and electric 
> > > capacity to receive signals and decode them is ingrained in the 
> > > species. The dangerous aspect of this application is that since 
> > people 
> > > cannot really be identified through this channel, those originating 
> > the 
> > > thoughts and using this ability for bad purposes can remain hidden. 
> > It 
> > > is easy to lie through ths channel: the subtle cues that people use 
> > to 
> > > distinguish truth from lies are missing, yet the fact that people 
> > know 
> > > they are not crazy and are receiving messages give these messages an 
> > > authority that may be lacking in other media, particularly if the 
> > > message is attractive either in content or form (nice voices). It is 
> > > easy to impersonate other people and "make believe". The real danger 
> > is 
> > > that people may not be aware of receiving messages and they are not 
> > > really able to reply; a one sided communication leaves people 
> > > defenseless before powerful emitters, psychics, but also those who 
> > are 
> > > perturbed independently of the telepathic ability... 


> > > Fabrizio J BOnsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 


> > As for military applications, following the link between certain drugs 
> > as triggers of telepathy and the tolerance for the use of drugs in 
> > Mexico gives that country the ability to harness lots of, lets call it, 
> > "psychic power" to influence both psychics (through deception) and non 
> > psychics (through subliminal persuasion) to... there can be many 
> > possibilities to cause damage and harm upon an unsuspecting, civilian 
> > population. Actually, it may well be that the real effect of substances 
> > in the brain is not only that of triggering telepathy but that of 
> > granting the brain more potent emissions. I believe this strategy is 
> > being pursued as a means to level a weak covert military power against 
> > a big open military power, in a long term strategy. In any case, paying 
> > attention to voices is dangerous, though it should be more dangerous to 
> > act according to unnoticed suggestions... 


> > Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore 



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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jun 14, 6:32 pm     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 14 Jun 2005 15:32:46 -0700 
Local: Tues,Jun 14 2005 6:32 pm  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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The decimononic concept of schizophrenia as an illness were individuals 
hear "voices" was a very first and incomplete attempt by the first 
scientists to explain the phenomenon. The result, a secularization of 
"demonic possession", only to transform it into a nightmarish illness. 
At that point in our history they were unable but to observe the 
consequences of "schizo" behaviour wityhout the possibility of 
explaining, not in an era when phrenology was still considered the 
state of the art, even when the idea behind is sound and is now the 
basis for CAT research. 


But now that we have a better nderstanding of nature and, above all, 
better theroretical tools, this concpet of turning into an illness a 
phenomenon that cannot be explained and to limit it to voices or aural 
input is to keep it at a very limited level of understanding and 
possibilities. 


Other possiblities mentioned were the transmission of images and 
emotions, but it is just needed the possibility of a mapping to be able 
to communicate through channel. Other sensory input is also possibly 
transmitable, even if it would be difficult to understand by others. 
For instance, men don't know the body of women! Any attempt at trying 
to make them "feel" something would be deefated by the inability to 
evocate the feeling and transmit. It wuould be too theoric, a wish more 
than actual encodings of actual sensations, tyherefore difficult to 
transmit, and there is no evidence of any evolutive advantage of 
developing that capability. 


Danilo J Bonsignore then Fabrizio J Bonsignore again Danilo J Bonsignore 


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   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jun 15, 10:01 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 15 Jun 2005 07:01:01 -0700 
Local: Wed,Jun 15 2005 10:01 am  
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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It must be understood that the brain can be interpreted as an efficient 
encoding of the world. Actually, the world to us is just an efficiently 
encoded brain state. It is this encoding that is transmitted in a 
Universe were (infinite[ly growing]) continuity allows all signals to 
affect Reality (all of it even if the effect is infinitesimally small) 
and for a chaotic system like the brain with its computing power the 
decoding of theis efficient signals is possible because of the 
*efficient mapping* of the sugnals, which allows minimal processing 
through *resonance/magnetization* of the (infinitesimally) small 
signals. [In theory, it should be possible through meditation to go to 
the past, to find and decode the signals of things past {in search of 
time lost}] for sufficiently sensitive and "tuned" brains. Several 
possibilities to simplify the problem of signal decoding are possible, 
given biological diversity and the actual programming (environmental) 
of the human brain. But it is assumed that basically the coding 
efficiency is based on the homomorphism between similar input 
processing areas in the brain of humans; differences must be smaller 
the baser and more primitive the brain functions are. So the 
transmission of sensorial input and thoughts must be easier, while the 
transmission of elaborate thoughts, imagination and ideas and concepts 
is difficult if not actually impossible, unless they go through the 
processing of the aquired encoding of language and therefore similar 
between individuals. 


Several possibilities of human interaction are possible here! 
Particularly, for those who have lost their senses it would be possible 
to actually use the senses ofother people, such as blind men looking 
through the eyes of normal people, anosmic people smelling through 
other peoples noses, etc. But it has to be taken into effect that 
hallucinations are very possible due to the act of imagination! 
So,forinstance, a profficient telepath with the (aqured) ability of 
transmiting odours, can make others smellwhat he imagines, and even 
more, if the target of the thoughts is himself a trasmitting telepath, 
other people would end up smelling what the remote sender imagined! Or 
is experiencing. 


Another possibility is that the decoding (and/or pickup) of signals is 
performed by different areas of the brain,but especially that the areas 
of transmission go through the aural interpretation of signals. In 
other words, a telepath may be transmitting in such way (encoding) that 
receivers, even poor telepaths, experience the sensation that the 
signal is being received as *sound*! A transmitting telepath would be 
like a speaker, even a news board re-transmitting what other telepaths 
are sending, through other encodings, and final receivers receive as 
sound or other sensory input. 


Note that the whole possibility of telepathy is based on the fact that 
the brain is a highly evolved universal computer in a chaotic state, 
which compared to the complexity of efficiently encoded signals in a 
continuous Reality makes a very simple task of decoding these signals, 
indeed! 


Danilo Jose Bonsignre then Fabrizio J Bonsignore again Danilo J 
Bonsignore 
 
11:05 +/- in brooklyn job partners 

Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
 Fixed font - Proportional font  

 
   fbonsign...@beethoven.com   Jun 15, 10:55 am     show options 

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, sci.physics, sci.econ 
From: fbonsign...@beethoven.com - Find messages by this author  
Date: 15 Jun 2005 07:55:00 -0700 
Subject: Re: Possibility of telepathy (information theory) 
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Given the last remarks, a new venue for the science of History can be 
opened by using psychics to tune in past events! Of course, adequate 
cross verification would be needed to avoid imagination to come in the 
way, especially by employing istorians with no knowledge of the events 
being investigated. Note that time travel per se cannot be justified 
this way! the future _is_not_yet_, so there is no way we can tune to 
signals from events that have not yet occured, nor we can actually 
change the *source* of the signals that come from the past, therefore 
we cannot go to the future; a universe model is implied here where time 
dimensions are lineal and not convertible to spatial dimensions, an 
assumption that is necessary to avoid time from being "fixed", static, 
which would deny its essence as event. Mind too that this is also an 
explanation for psychic regression and reincaration tests. The 
impression of having lived past lives is explained by the spontaneous 
tuning of signals of events past, of the experiences, images, words 
spoken, emotions particularly well encoded of individuals long dead; 
the hypothesis here is that this impressions would be only visual, the 
easiest to understand, would not actually incorporate more than one 
form of signal. Note also that this is a good explanation of ghosts and 
phantoms and hunted houses, under the hypothesis that signals,whatever 
physical form they assume, can get embedded in the actual movement of 
atoms, matter; a strong enough signal, like that of strong emotions and 
violent deeds can get embedded in inanimate objects, say, in the very 
movement of molecules and atoms (for solids where temperature is not a 
real issue, the ambient temperature of molecules can very well encode 
this pattern/signals in repetitive movements/patterns and brain gestalt 
would give them form andcontent beyond what the actual signal contains, 
the explanation of those psychics who, by touch, canactually get images 
of the story of an object). 


Another possibility is that of human and even human/animal and later 
human/(animal/inanimate matter) distributed combinations of brain to 
brain signals, where different kinds of psychics complemet each other 
to retrieve information from different sources, complement lacking 
senses and eventually perform exploration of uncomely environments. 


Note too that signals can also be transmitted through tunnel effects! 
The issue here is that it would be equivalent to time travel if space 
if involved, and would imply a highly correlated Reality as it comes to 
social realities! Physically time travel is impossible, but if space 
(space travel) is involved, psychics in the relative future would 
retrieve sgnals from the (simultaneous) time and then transmit 
information through tunnel effects to the psychics in the "past". 
Social reality would be very highly correlated, but no transmission of 
matter would actually take place, only the encoded signals as 
transmitted by the psychics in the space-as-future and received by the 
psychics acting in the past-as-space-present... As is usual in science 
fiction stories, even this kind of "time travel" can have very 
deleterious effects, pasrticularly for the *future* of the future 
psychics changing the future of the past-present psychics andother 
humans... Several, several possibiliies can be envisioned here... 


Danilo J Bonsignor then Fabrizio J Bonsignore nowagain Danilo J 
Bonsignore