The Dave Dobbyn Collection thread

From: Rob F.

THE DAVE DOBBYN COLLECTION: A Review for Ummm

I'm writing this for fellow DD fans, so I don't want to be overly critical, but I don't want to be a sycophant, either. Some of you on the list might be wondering, "Now that I've got 'Twist,' should I plunk down the bucks for 'The DD Collection'?" My short answer is: probably. If you think "Twist" is one of the best things you've heard in a long time, and that DD is one of the greatest crafters of intelligent pop music anywhere, then you will not regret investing in this career retrospective. But if you're somewhat less enthusiastic about DD's music, you may want to read on and decide for yourself.

The 14 songs in the collection span roughly six years and four albums, from DD Smash's "Cool Bananas" in 1982 to "Loyal" in 1988. They are sequenced chronologically, which helps demonstrate DD's musical growth during the 1980's. There are some marvellous pop songs here. At a minimum, I count four of them as all-time classics, up there with my favorite CH & Finn tunes.

A couple of good subtitles for this album might be, "A Portrait of theArtist in Search of His (True) Voice" or "My Life as an NZ Hitmaker." These suggested subtitles summarise my major misgivings about "The DD Collection." The first is that DD's gift for mimicking different vocal styles is a distraction. I think the term Laura uses in her post to describe DD's singing here is "derivative," and that rings true for me. On some songs, he just sounds like he's trying too hard. On others, he seems to be so busy imitating some well-known singer that it's tough to appreciate the music -- which is often good. On the first two-thirds of the CD, I heard DD apeing, at various times, David Bowie, Billy Joel and, believe it or not, Prince.

My second misgiving is that too many of the songs struggle to be heard against 1980's-era production values and formulaic musical arrangements. (Maybe that's just a given for a greatest hits collection from the '80's!) But with the older tunes, I kept thinking to myself, "Dave wrote a great song here, with good lyrics and a good melody. Too bad the arrangement doesn't match the quality of the song." This is NOT true for the last half-dozen songs, which demonstrates how much DD learned about arranging over the years. In them, I hear the seeds for "Lament for the Numb" and "Twist."

For someone who grew up listening to Dudes/Smash/DD on the radio, my criticisms may sound like blasphemy (my apologies to JP, Robbie, and anyone else to whom this may apply). For them, the DD Collection probably sounds like a personal soundtrack to their lives. But keep in mind my own perspective: I'm here because of "Twist." It's what I heard first, so it's the inevitable (and admittedly unfair) standard to which I hold the rest of his work.

For what they're worth, here are my track-by-track comments:

1. Be Mine Tonight -- An undeniably compelling hook and from-the-gut vocals. A lyrical theme encompassing beer, cigarettes 'n' romance; is this what Th' Dudes were about?

2. Lipstick Power -- An obvious stab at Bowiesque vocals. Not my fave, even though the lyrics are clever. There's too much compression on the drums & other instruments. Interesting musical note: the "ghostly" backing vocal part ("someone has a soul in here") reminds me of Split Enz!

3. Devil You Know -- More mannered vocals. Ironically, DD sings, "Does this bother you?" several times (umm, well...) A rather hackneyed guitar solo in the middle. Also not my favorite.

4. Solo -- Here's where I hear Prince, in the falsetto vocals and even some of the guitar work. There's some interesting musical textures and backing vocals. DD's stab at a dance tune?

5. Repetition -- I'll assume DD was being *intentionally* ironic by having a musical arrangement that illustrates the lyrics ("You want repetition / You got it / Repetition / You've heard it all before, but it's seductive anyway").

6. Outlook for Thursday -- Horn arrangement and rhythm gives this a Calypso feel. Lyrical perspective is that of a weatherman (??) More Bowie in the vocals.

7. Magic (What She Do) -- Steel drums & rhythm give this a Caribbean feel, too. Although the R'n'B-style backing vocals are a bit overdone, this is more musically cohesive. The hook-filled melody is reinforced by nice keyboard "ear candy." Vocally, DD is entering his Billy Joel phase. A fun, light pop song.

8. Whaling -- I knew this one beforehand from a live tape and from reading about it in some of the articles JP sent. Imagine my surprise to hear a slower tempo and low-register Bowie-esque vocals!! That said, this is undeniably great, and DD deserves all the acclaim he got for it. The electric violin is delightful, and intertwines beautifully with the guitar line. A classic.

9. Guilty -- Not just imitation Billy Joel, but a near clone. So much like the Piano Man that it's almost spooky: the vocal style & intonation, musical arrangement, piano part, even the "jazzy" sax & horns break in the middle. You could play this for a Billy Joel fan, and he or she might well say, "Wow, an outtake or a B-side I've never heard before!" Aside from the Billy Joel comparisons, it's a very good song.

10. Slice of Heaven -- Not one of the catchiest songs I've ever heard, but THE catchiest song I've ever heard!! Who cares if it's "under-produced" (you can hear the unadorned tick-tick of the drum machine)? IMHO, less is more. This is utterly beguiling, charming stuff. No wonder it was a big fat Antipodean hit. What's new musically is that DD is singing in his own voice. That's pretty ironic, considering he's apparently giving voice to a cartoon character from an animated movie! This is in the grand tradition of Disney's best soundtracks, and I mean that as a high compliment.

11. Oughta Be In Love -- Also from the Footrot Flats soundtrack. Nice doo-wop style arrangement. Vocally, a slight regression from "Slice." Here, too, low-tech production values do no harm. Stylistically, it reminds me of a late-50's R'n'B tune a la Sam Cooke. Very enjoyable.

12. Loyal -- For me, this is the model for the great things that were to come with "Lament" and "Twist." Entirely DD's own voice, and another musical shift. Less keyboard and more guitar (finally!). The focus here is on the words & vocals, and they're unforced this time. You can hear DD's confidence. The lyrical perspective is fascinating and bears repeated listening. I hear someone singing to a former lover about the status of their relationship. It sounds to me like he's saying, "OK, the thrill is gone, but we still might have the basis for a future relationship because we're at least *loyal* to each other." But it sounds like he's trying to convince not only the former lover, but also himself! A definite classic.

13. Love You Like I Should -- Peppy, up-tempo, horn-fuelled number. Kinda simple and repetitive, but pleasantly so, with some nice guitar work. If you're listening with headphones the first time, watch out for the left-right channel shifting at the end ("And don't you forget it").

14. Stay -- Very radio-friendly, with "Contemporary Hit Radio" written all over it. A little too Top 40 for my tastes. But if you're less of a snob, it's very enjoyable. A summertime, riding-in-the-car-with-the-radio-on tune.

From: Jon-Paul

Rob!

Wonderful review! I agree on almost all your points above. You got th' Dudes attitude in one! Be Mine Tonight is the only Dudes song with DD on vocals.

I understand how weird it must be regressing from Twist back to these glossy poppy 80's hits. You must understand how completely unexpected, and wonderful his more "alternative" LftN was, and indeed why it didn't sell too well. And then to get the "sonic jiggery pokery" (Thanks Q magazine) of Twist- it was simply exciting! And that’s why I'm bursting at the seams with the continual mention of a new album, but with no evidence to say Dave's even booked the studio yet!

Great comment on "Slice of Heaven". Funnily, the record company didn't want it released as a single due to it's "under production", it got picked up by radio stations, after multitudes of requests from listeners after the song played over the promotional clip for the movie in theatres nationwide. I hope that single is still around in 3 weeks time in Dunedin!

JP

From: Robbie B.

Hi,

Rob gave a great critique of the DD collection. Here I comment on his comments and add my own. I'll try to trim the quotation down a bit. (All quotations are from Rob's previous post).

> My second misgiving is that too many of the songs struggle to be heard against 1980's-era > production values and formulaic musical arrangements.

I won't argue with the production; I have beefs with the production of many of the tracks. But I am not sure I agree with the formulaic arrangement statement. Devil You Know, Love You Like I Should, Solo, Outlook For Thursday, have somewhat non-standard arrangements, and I wouldn't call the arrangements of some of the others particularly formulaic.

There do seem to be a number of fillers (Solo, Repetition, Stay). There are several all time classics too, however. Overall, it is a compulsory purchase.

1. Be Mine Tonight -- Party song with a strong melody. Pity the lyrics are kind of repetitious. A bit of classic in NZ.

2. Lipstick Power --

>An obvious stab at Bowiesque vocals. Not my fave, even though the lyrics are clever. There's too much compression on the drums & other instruments.

The production sounds awfully dated (it really does sound early eighties), and detract from quite a peppy bit of pop. This was my first taste of DD, and I didn't notice quite how tacky it sounded at the time.

3. Devil You Know --

>More mannered vocals. Ironically, DD sings, "Does this bother you? several times (umm, well...) A rather hackneyed guitar solo in the middle. Also not my favorite.

Yeah, the solo is nothing too special, but the rest of it really kicks IMHO. I would rate this as one of the best on the album though I like it more now than I used to when I first heard it. The bridge between verse and chorus is so energetic when the drums kick back in and then he sweetly moves into falsetto. And no it doesn't bother me... Another NZ classic?

4. Solo --

> Here's where I hear Prince, in the falsetto vocals and even some of the guitar work. There's some interesting musical textures and backing vocals. DD's stab at a dance tune?

First time I'd heard this song was on this compilation. I am not sure I particularly hear The Artist Formerly Known As Prince on this one, but DD is definitely experimenting with his voice here. Not my favorite.

5. Repetition -- Another one I hadn't heard before, but very, very, catchy. Generally I feel that DD writes better verses than choruses but the reverse is true here.

6. Outlook for Thursday --

>Horn arrangement and rhythm gives this a Calypso feel. Lyricalperspective is that of a weatherman (??) More Bowie in the vocals.

I am not sure I hear the Bowie impressions. Maybe on the awesome, soaring, "Otherwise fine", bit. This has a beautiful, melodic verse but due to the slightly unusual arrangement the verse is not repeated. I vaguely remember this one had an amusing video which had DD busking, and someone putting a cabbage in his guitar case rather than money. It also had DD as a weatherman, (I think "Smash" was also doing his weatherman impressions) albeit without any props such as a weathermap. One of my favorite DD songs.

7. Magic (What She Do) --

>Steel drums & rhythm give this a Caribbean feel, too.

I think this time the production works for the song rather than against it. Found this one deadly boring when I first heard it. Now I see it as a bit of throwaway fun. Like much DD it grows on you with time.

8. Whaling --

It's been said. A classic.

9. Guilty --

>Not just imitation Billy Joel, but a near clone.

I find this sounds similar to much of the stuff on the album "Loyal". Guilt seems to be a lyrical theme. q.v. Betrayal, and Loyal. A bit jazzy for my taste but it grows...

10. Slice of Heaven --

>Not one of the catchiest songs I've ever heard, but THE catchiest song I've ever heard!!

Again, I couldn't understand the appeal of this at first apart from the contagiously catchy "Na, na, na" bit. The verse and somewhat discordant bridge to the chorus take a bit of getting used to (IMHO!), but once they have stuck in your mind they refuse to go away. Herbs did the backing vocals. Do Herbs still exist? I dig Dave's white gloves in the video!

> Who cares if it's "under-produced"

I do. The song is so strong that it overcomes the disadvantage of its production, but it could have been better. As I'm sure Katie would agree, Mitchell Froom would have done a much better job.

> (you can hear the unadorned tick-tick of the drum machine)? IMHO, less is more. What do you mean by less though? The track has a fairly crowded sound. I wouldn't exactly call it spare, more cheap. I do love the sort of sliding flute sort of effect of the intro.

> This is utterly beguiling, charming stuff. No wonder it was a big fat Antipodean hit. What's new musically is that DD is singing in his own voice.

How do you know it is own though? Perhaps he is now imitating someone you don't know!

11. Oughta Be In Love --

As you say very pleasant.

12. Loyal --

Perhaps my favorite song from the collection. A cleaner simpler production than usual with (as you mention) less emphasis on the keyboards helps make this one a classic.

13. Love You Like I Should --

>Peppy, up-tempo, horn-fuelled number.

I would have liked a stronger chorus. It sounds a bit of an afterthought. Great solo, into and outro though. Nice rhythm guitar work too. This track, like many on "Loyal" sounds a bit synthetic. The video for this contains a classic DD trademark: his cheap(?) sunglasses which he likes to boogie round in. He always seems to be having fun in his videos (though I haven't seen anything from LftN). Interestingly, from most of the videos I remember, DD is seen without his guitar, even in videos with backing bands (such as LYLIS). He most surely plays on every track.

14. Stay --

>Very radio-friendly, with "Contemporary Hit Radio" written all over it. A little too Top 40 for my tastes.

For me too. It is unadventurous easy listening that sounds to me like a "Guilty" wanna be. This one Stays just a little too long. Apparently the DD collection was cobbled together, and I doubt this one would have made the grade if they'd thought a bit harder about it. There are several better songs on the "Loyal" album alone (though many of them outstay their welcome a bit too.) I don't remember Stay being released as a single. Defying Gravity might have been released and would have been a better pick, though it harks back to Lipstick Power in style and production(!). Best of all would have been to shove Stay in favour of Joy. Joy has a wonderful guitar riff with similarities to The Expert.

Robbie.

From: Jon-Paul

Heyho

Another couple of thoughts to add to some of the discussion above... "Devil You Know" is one of my fave Smash songs- it's just so damn energetic- and still sneaks into DD's live set list these days- as does SOLO, which REALLY gets cranked up. And I enjoy "singing" the guitar solo (when no-one's within earshot!)

JP

From: Rob F.

I appreciate Robbie's reply to my review of The DD Collection -- it's nice to know someone's paying attention out there! On some points, I agree with him. On others, I don't.

I will not respond point-by-point (because we agree on several issues), but here are a few replies to his comments:

> Rob gave a great critique of the DD collection.

Thanks, Robbie! I wrote music reviews for my college newspaper, and writing about DD reminded me how much fun it is (particularly when you're enthused about the music).

> I am not sure I agree with the formulaic arrangement statement. Devil You Know, Love You Like I Should, Solo, Outlook For Thursday, have somewhat non-standard arrangements, and I wouldn't call the arrangements of some of the others particularly formulaic.

Fair enough. That was too broad a statement. But I would defend "formulaic" as a fair description of about 60 percent of the music here. There are *elements* in most songs which are not formulaic, but in several cases, it is only a brief musical flourish (such as the first bridge in "Be Mine Tonight" -- very unusual!) which saves a song from being lost to musical clichés. Of course, this is a matter of taste, and we apparently differ on several such matters. Let me say again that my perspective is different from yours: hearing Twist first, then going backwards through his catalog colors my perception of his earlier material.

> Overall, it is a compulsory purchase.

For me and you, yes. But I will repeat my conviction that it's "compulsory" only for DD's biggest fans. Each member of Ummm can decide whether or not he or she is in this category. (In her post, Laura gave a very articulate statement as someone who *loves* Twist, but is merely lukewarm towards Collection. And she heard Twist first, as I did).

3. Devil You Know --

> Yeah, the solo is nothing too special, but the rest of it really kicks IMHO. I would rate this as one of the best on the album though I like it more now than I used to when I first heard it.

I'll give it a few more listens. But my gut tells me I'll still consider it rather overblown. Lyrically, it's pretty weak compared to the brilliance that was to come. Vocally, it's a good example of what I meant when I said DD sounds like he's trying too hard. This, too, is a matter of taste, I suspect...

6. Outlook for Thursday --

> I vaguely remember this one had an amusing video ... [with] DD as a weatherman.

So I was right about the weatherman bit!

> One of my favorite DD songs.

Yeah, it's pretty good -- for this collection. But as good as most of Lament or all of Twist? For me, that would be stretching it...

10. Slice of Heaven --

> I do [care if it's under-produced]. The song is so strong that it overcomes the disadvantage of its production, but it could have been better. As I'm sure Katie would agree, Mitchell Froom would have done a much better job.

Well, yes. I suppose the production COULD have been better. But GIVEN the fact that Mr. Froom did not produce it, and GIVEN the fact that it's under-produced, it's still a fabulous song. Perhaps this is a glass half-full or half-empty argument. We both agree it's great.

> What do you mean by less though? The track has a fairly crowded sound. I wouldn't exactly call it spare, more cheap.

Spare, and cheap, too. I find its very "cheapness" rather charming and even endearing. I can just picture DD slaving away in the studio, learning about all this high-tech equipment for the first time, but still creating musical magic (see the article on the Footrot Flats project which JP sent to us). By "spare," I was referring once again to the lack of production, not the complexity or combination of sounds. As drum machine tracks go, the one on "Slice" is about as *spare* and unprocessed as you will find (and this is true for the other instrumental tracks). It's as if DD finished the basic tracks, added the tremendous backing vocals, gave it a listen, and said, "Why fiddle with it? It sounds great just like it is!"

> How do you know it is own [voice] though? Perhaps he is now imitating someone you don't know!

I asked him! It helps to have DD's private e-mail address (8-P). Obviously, I was referring to DD's "own" voice as I hear it on Lament and Twist. I've heard DD's speaking voice AND singing voice on live tapes, and, yes, I DO believe I can discern that, for the most part, DD is singing in WHAT I UNDERSTAND TO BE his real, unmannered, un-derivative voice on "Slice." (But you were just pulling my leg, weren't you, Mr. Berks??)

12. Loyal --

> Perhaps my favorite song from the collection. A cleaner simpler production than usual with (as you mention) less emphasis on the keyboards helps make this one a classic.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

14. Stay --

> This one Stays just a little too long.

Well said!

> There are several better songs on the "Loyal" album alone (though many of them outstay their welcome a bit too.) [snip] Defying Gravity might have been released and would have been a better pick, though it harks back to Lipstick Power in style and production(!). Best of all would have been to shove Stay in favour of Joy. Joy has a wonderful guitar riff with similarities to The Expert.

Yes, yes. I've been listening to Loyal for the past week, and I must say I was disappointed that there were not more songs on it like the title track. "Joy" would have had my vote, too (I'll have to compare it to "The Expert").

I hope others on the list will join this worthy discussion.

-Rob

From: Robbie B.

Hi Guys

Back to that hoary old chestnut, the DD collection.

I said

>> Overall, it is a compulsory purchase.

Rob said

>For me and you, yes.

Nope. Sorry Rob, the word compulsory means compulsory, no exceptions. Everybody must get it. It's that simple.

But seriously, I would suspect most readers of this list would prefer the album Twist to the DD Collection and I offer the following reasons

(i) Twist is probably the first experience many on the list have with DD's music, and the first taste is often the most memorable and the sweetest.

(ii) Most of the listies will have migrated from the CH group, and their tastes may be biased towards softer numbers prevalent on Twist and not the more nosebleed tracks occasionally encountered in The Collection. I base this sweeping (and no doubt wrong!) generalisation on the rather negative reaction on the CH list to the thrashier tracks on the FINN album, and on Together Alone (Ha!). Mind you, on the CH list they are even mean to sensitive ol' crooners like Jimmy Barnes.

(iii) Twist is more accessible, more consistent, and better produced than the Collection.

I still like LFtN better than either album. That album is even more compulsory.

[Snip]

6. Outlook for Thursday -- I said

>> One of my favorite DD songs.

Rob said

> Yeah, it's pretty good -- for this collection. But as good as most of Lament or all of Twist? For me, that would be stretching it...

Here we must agree to disagree. Outlook for Thursday, Loyal, Whaling, and Devil You Know, are the equals of anything on Twist IMHO. They just happen to be in a considerably different style. When it peaks, the Collection peaks with snow on top.

You point out that some of the lyrics on the collection are a little lightweight, and I'd agree with that. Some of the melodies are a little throwaway too, but that is not necessarily a bad thing occasionally.

From: Linda G.

Hi Ummers!

Just thought I'd test out the temporary Umm home (hi Chris!) by finally getting round to sharing my first impressions of a wonderful tape I've acquired recently containing some of the tracks from "Collection" and the DD concert in Auckland 1994. I know most of you out there are seasoned DD-watchers/listeners, so I'm not going to attempt a full review, just a few thoughts on some of the songs that particularly caught my attention:

BE MINE TONIGHT/DEVIL YOU KNOW

Loved the guitar work on BMT, much more than the vocal actually! But after a few listens DYK has really grown on me - this one is so catchy. Having heard Dave on Twist first, it takes a while to realise that - yes, this IS the same artist - but they're good tracks and show a completely different side to him. Definite hints of Bowie.

SOLO

Daydreaming slightly (as you tend to do when you listen to tapes while doing the ironing!), the introduction to this started and I immediately thought I was listening to Niwhai!! It's just about identical!! Has this been mentioned before on this list, I wonder? And there I was, thinking that if the Finns had got the idea from anywhere, it was from "Fashion" by David Bowie. But hang on, this track probably sounds far more like Bowie (to me) than Niwhai. Is this some kind of eternal triangle?! Anyway, good song and good beat, would be good to dance to.

MAGIC (WHAT SHE DO)

A really beautiful song, and I'm surprised to learn that this is from a 1984 album - it sounds to me as though it could easily have been one of Dave's more recent tracks. Gorgeous melody and definitely one of my favourites!

WHALING

Loved the violin (have had a thing about violins in rock ever since I first discovered Steeleye Span!) and this certainly helps to give it a more seafaring feel - whether or not that's what Dave's actually singing about - (I'm one of the doubters actually :-)

SLICE OF HEAVEN

This one is now growing on me, but I have to admit it's taken its time. I know this was a big hit down under, so please don't flame me :-), but does anyone else find the beat to this song distinctly irritating?

LOYAL

Well, this may not be called "Slice of Heaven", but that's what it is, IMO. And this one sounds as though it could have jumped straight off the "Twist" album. Beautiful melody (again) which I now can't get out of my head.

All in all, if there's anyone else out there who's a mere novice when it comes to Dave's records, these earlier songs are well worth discovering and there's some real gems amongst them.

Linda.

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