Get your Free HomepageFrom: Jon-Paul
Gidday Gang,
Picture This: Yesterday morning- Sleeping in as it's Saturday. I normally shoot into uni for a couple of hours on Sat mornings as I start work at 1pm in a wine shop, however, seeing I won't be working Christmas this year, boss decides he'll have to train someone else, and I'm no longer required there. So, where was I... ah yes, sleeping in, I turn the radio on at 9am, and what's the first song to be greeted with? "Bliss"- cool- great start to the day. I get up, do the dishes from the night before, grunt at my flatmates (who cheerfully grunt back), after much pissing about (and about an hours work on the soon to be doomed timeline), I get in the car and head off to uni. The midday news just finishes, and I hear DD's "Devil You Know", GREAT, then it hits me- this could be a "Triple Rock Block" as the local rock station (which is the only non-talkback / country styation I can tune into on my little AM car radio) so thoughtfully calls it.
Much to my surprise the LIVE version of "Whaling" from the Language Single is up next- I was delighted as I'd *never* heard it on the radio before- and the TRB finished up with "Love You Like I Should"
And this afternoon, at 1pm, when I hopped in the car, the first song to play after the news- the original "Whaling"!
I've been meaning to start up some discussion on DD's own "Ultimate, all-time classic" song for ages now, so here we go...
There's one line in the song which cracks me up every time- the bit about "Manning my Harpoon, not where I wanted to be"- I'd always assumed this to relate to sailors who love their partners, but still go to prostitutes at each port. (This also fits in with the metaphor of a man adrift / away from his family, having one night stands along the way... say, touring the country in a rock band).
In discussion I had with Katie (hi Katie!) about a year ago, she thought the song might have homosexual overtones, ("Go down on bended knees" has several interpretations) and enquired if Dave was that way enclined. I told her that as far as I knew he wasn't gay (not that there's anything wrong with that sort of thing...) he was happily married with a couple of kids in fact.
Since listening to that song (on "high-rotate" on my stereo) and re-reading the following article my stance has changed (slightly)
>IN SEARCH OF SMASH HITS
>BY DUNCAN CAMPBELL
>Rip It Up, October 1984
>When December 1984 comes around and I'm taking stock of the year's
>musical outpourings, it's as sure as snow on the Desert Road that a
>wistful little song called 'Whaling' will emerge very near the top of
>the heap. How Dave Dobbyn manages to tug the heart strings so simply
>and effectively still escapes me. Maybe it's because his own heart is
>poured into the songs he writes. that one was written one lonely
>night late last year, while his wife was not with him (you didn't
>really think it was about whales, did you?). No, it's the man of the
>sea, or the man adrift, if you like:
> I'm whaling, next port of call
> Back in my sweet baby's arms
> In a room, close, savouring our love
> While we got rest and recreation ...
>The last line alone is classic Dobbyn, the wry humour never far below the surface.
It became obvious to me, that the "Manning my Harpoon" was a reference to, well, masturbation. "Not where I wanted to be" indeed!
While the tone of the mail is in the gutter, I'll take the chance to mention that in the live version (Gluepot, 1994), after the wonderful mini-crescendo of "rest and recreation" Dave yells out "Milk it baby, milk it", which I find absolutely hilarious, obviously thers a little more than the cuddle in "my sweet baby's arms" going on in that room, close. Recreation... maybe, rest... certainly not ;-)
Also, another of the very clever double-meaning lines "Your Spirits will get you through" is just great (Though I think the Eagles patented that one a few years prior to Dave using it).
How on earth the Aussie DJ's could think the song had anything to do with Whales is completely beyond me! Still, Aussies will be Aussies ;-) (See Duncan Campell's article )
It seems that a lot of the "All time Kiwi Classics" have a nautical / loneliness theme- eg Enz "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" & Hello Sailor's "Billy Bold"- probably to do with our nations love of the ocean / beach, and our sailing / yachting history.
I enjoyed the discussion of "Palace" after I offered my feelings on that song, hopefully this dissection of "Whaling" will lead to some other interpretaions / discussion or disagreement on the list.
Bye JP
From: Chris J.
Hello list,
Time to stand some high moral ground here and object whole heartedly to the depravity (I looked that one up) and sexual innuendo that JP has inexplicably exposed this list to.
Agreed the 'Palace' thread was both interesting and informative, so much so in fact that I was inspired, (both by the song and JP's thoughts) to visit the Civic (I saw Courage Under Fire there last week) and enjoy the ambience of the grand theatre, something I had not done in a long time.
But now this!
My favourite DD song stripped bare of its dignity, prostituted and exposed as some piece written in a time of sexual frustration!!?!!
> It became obvious to me, that the "Manning my
Harpoon" was a
> >reference to, well, masturbation. "Not where I wanted to be"
> >indeed!
Well I'm certainly not inspired to take flight and man my harpoon thank you very much. As
for 'down on bended knee' and its 'homosexual references', Codswallop! It suggests a
marriage proposal, commitment, a life fulfilled, not prostitutes, homosexual sailors and
long shafty things. Next thing JP will be suggesting the line 'first to get trigger
happy..' was DD suffering from premature something or other.
How can I listen to this song again and appreciate its beauty when forever now I have visions of sailors, prostitutes and....(No, I won't succumb!)
Shame on you JP, shame shame shame. Your moral corruption and slanderous thoughts must cease. When will it stop? Will thou not be happy until you have laid bare all of DD's songs with your perverted thoughts?
Shame, shame on you.
CJ
(Well someone needed to say it :-} )
From: Jon-Paul
Hi,
Sounds like you're a bit threatened Chris. A bit nervous about discussion of an s-e-/ - \ - ual nature on this list... Just you wait till I discuss the "Have a stiff one all night" line in "Bliss"- then you'll really be shocked...
Later folks
JP
From: Katie H.
Howdy all,
I'm *still* laughing over Chris' post about JP's "Whaling" interpretations.. ;-)
Yeah, last year I was speculating about the meaning of the song, and I came up with a few different angles, including the gay interpretation. (At that point I didn't have the lyrics and I didn't know anything about Dave.) I stopped thinking this after I heard the live version of the song because Dave talks about "missing his baby" and "being 7000 miles away from her with just a bottle of vodka to keep him company" (slight paraphrase). I think it's definitely about longing and missing someone. It's probably also about wanting to satisfy certain urges anyway you can, but I'm trying to keep this clean! Of course, "manning my harpoon" could just refer to his life's work as part of the overall seafaring metaphor. Sick boy indeed!
Ciao,
Katie
From: Jon-Paul Hansen
Hi,
Hmmmph- still laughing at Chris's post. Nary a mention of that piece of Hard Copy styled investigative journalism yours truly constructed which gave Chris the springboard he required to launch into an uncalled diatribe against me and my ideas! There's no pleasing some people...
Just to be pedantic- the live version of Whaling mentions Vodka AND A PEN to keep him company- so...uh... draw your own conclusions.
Actually to add to the Whaling discussion- also the live version- Dave's call and response bit which goes-
I'm Whaling
Whaling
Look at the Spanish gold
At the bottom of the ocean now
What did these eyes behold
At the bottom of the ocean now
I'm whaling
Whaling
(Whooloong)- @ Revolver Studios only!
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaling
Anyway its GREAT fun to respond to live- but really the whole spanish gold bit is a bit beyond me- but then again, I don't think I was supposed to take it literally.
And I've got a copy of DD singing the support slot for the Finns UK Union Chapel gig last year- he's got no band- just him & his guitar- and when he sings the call and response- there *is no* response, just an awkward silence- sounds odd! So next time Mr Dobbyn plays near you, make sure you reply to the calls dammit!
Finally there's a slim chance one of our ranks might meet up with DD when she's in Auckland later this week for the Finn concert. (Hi Nicole)- she asked me if there's anything she could pass on to Dave from me, other than the prerequisite "Where's the new Album?" line of questioning. So hopefully Nicole is going to ask Dave if Whaling is all about wanking.
Cool!
And while I'm here I'll pull a bit out a private correspondence with Chris and bung it in the Umm, as is my wont (just ask Colleen!) Hope ya don't mind too much Chris! (see below)
the commented bits ">" are from my previous letter to him.
Oh and it's been edited and BLEEPED to protect the innocent! (not that there's much innocence left on this list...)
bye4now
JP
From: Chris J.
>Hey Chris,
Way hey and a bottle of rum yourself,
>I was somewhat relieved (nay- surprised) that since my post
about
>"Palace" inspired you to visit the Civic, you weren't similarly
>impressed by my in-the-gutter analysis of "Whaling"- no five-finger
>salutes for you huh?
I actually thought it was pretty funny (nay {BEEP}ing hil-la-rious), but decided to play
devils advocate for a change and see if some others took it seriously or not. Probably not
considering the lashings of sarcasm and timely wit. I'm just brooding somewhat because I
missed the 'get a stiff one all night' line myself, I tried in vain to think of other
sexually connated innuendo within Daves songs but time and a pathetic memory for lyrics
was against me. Never mind.
>What the hell does "First to get trigger happy, first to
>think of my own health" have to do with anything?
Maybe DD realises he can be a bit selfish and quick to get angry, (in regards to his
relationship with his wife). If the song was written on the road away from his family then
he may have been in a 'retrospective' kind of mood, if thats the right word, and was
thinking about the priorities of his music career vs family, which may have been a cause
of previous arguments between the two. Thats my opinion anyways (totally devoid of any
possible cause for sexual references/innuendo)
>Anyway, gotta run...
Like wise! CU!
CJ.
From: Chris J.
Hello all again,
In a desperate attempt for self-gratification (no not that kind) JP posts my (private) e-mail to the list acknowledging his witty repartee. Now at this point I could simply deny everything and say that I never wrote such a thing, claiming it was the work of a devious and twisted mind. That would be a lie however and the upstanding moral ground that I placed myself on previously would rapidly take flight faster than a San Fransico fault line. (I have no idea where that came from :-}). So JP yes it was a fine piece of investigative journalism, easily rivalling Hard Copy for smut and innuendo, suberbly crafted and meticulously executed......bravo.....bravo..... (You're a Brave Brave Man).
Phew, glad that's over. Now Katie mentioned in her post that;
> I stopped thinking this after I heard the live version of
>the song because Dave talks about "missing his baby" and "being 7000
>miles away from her with just a bottle of vodka to keep him company"
>(slight paraphrase)
and JP (yes we are still friends) went on to say;
>Just to be pedantic- the live version of Whaling mentions Vodka
AND A
> PEN to keep him company- so...uh... draw your own conclusions.
WELL, to take pedantic-ness to its obvious conclusion, the live version I have (and I assume its the one and the same) has DD staring out by saying;
"Imagine your alone in a bar about 4 in the morning and you don't have a guitar, all ya got is a very large vodka and a pen.....and your baby is 3000 letters away.......you know its love."
The pen/letters thing fits in rather well then don't you think. I've always loved that line because of the play on the letters vs miles, which suggest much more of an emotional detachment than the mere physical description that '3000 miles' would give. Take another listen Katie and tell me what you think!
CJ (oh moral one) signing off. :-)
From: Colleen M.
Hello gang,
I would have written sooner (not that any of you have been disappointed), but I've been busy plumbing the depths of Dave's lyrics to see what other hidden messages I can find. You never know what you can learn by assidiously studying his lyrics:
---First we learned, courtesy of JP, that Dave had predicted life on Mars (BTW, more supporting evidence found last week).
---Then we learned how Dave spends his free time. Or would that be how..., oh, never mind. (You know, I can't help but notice that this discussion was introduced *after* Mr. D. had been briefed on our existence and *after* he had been sent transcripts. Coincidence??? Hmmm...)
Now I've realized that Dave predicted the formation of this list and the recent wanking, oops, I mean Whaling "discussion". But I don't have time to post the detailed analysis today. But I will, someday.
Chris lamented:
> My favourite DD song stripped bare of its dignity, prostituted
and
> exposed as some piece written in a time of sexual frustration!!?!!
Chris, Chris, Chris...some of the greatest works of art were created under those very
circumstances! Why should Dave's creativity be denied this avenue??
Finally, JP inquired:
> Look at the Spanish gold
[snip]
> Anyway its GREAT fun to respond to live- but really the whole
> spanish gold bit is a bit beyond me- but then again, I don't think I
> was supposed to take it literally.
Umm[m], isn't it "looking for Spanish gold"? As for the quandry: the line makes
sense to me, if you accept that the song has a seafaring theme. Dragoons, doubloons, and
all that, you know. If you subscribe to the alternate interpretation, well, I'm sure that
there are a wealth of other possiblities, but personally, *I'm* not going there.
Colleen
P.S. Am I the only one who is now breathing a
From: Jon-Paul
Well,
Gotta admit I'm a little relieved (stop it Chris!)...a little relieved that no-ones written to me to "unsubscribe" from this little hotbed of smut and innuendo.
However I blame the recent decline in standards herein upon one Laura (Templebar) McCutcheon! To wit...
"Yes, yes, I've certainly overstepped the unspoken bounds and brought the fine tenor of this list down a notch or two. Forgive me. It's been a long week, and the weekend is half accounted for already before it's even begun, so I've been indulging myself. "
It was the catalyst of all that has followed- "Blame her! Blame Her!"
While "Whaling" is still a hot topic of contention on this list (how long can it be till Rob F. hits his caps-lock key and tells us to move along :-P ), I'll offer up a further variation on the song's live performance. The following opening was sung as an extended intro to the song at Auckland's Powerstation on 7 Feb, 1995.
We'll get all warm and fuzzy now
Warm and Fuzzy- oh warm and fuzzy
Standing on a cliff
Shouting to the Ancestors
"Help me now"
Oh my (uncle?) we'll be round
Standing on a cliff
I don't see the horizon
cause it's so grey
everywhere and the winds killing me
Screaming out for ancestors, oh
Grandfather, we'll be around this sweet land
Every nook and cranny
every curl of a crackle, every (???)
Whaling...
[guitar intro...]
Sing BRAVO BRAVO etc...
The word "uncle" above actually sounds like"'ankle", but the line "Oh my Ankle, we'll be round" makes even less sense... unless of course he hurt his ankle while climbing up the cliff, to yell at his ancestors for help (probably wants a band-aid for his sore foot!)
And even more inexplicibably, at the end of the song- after the last true verse, and before the call and response section, he starts singing about licences and running out of petrol in the car (honestly!)- I think perhaps a few too many of those "large vodkas" before the gig might help explain things.
Oh, I just *love* this descent into trivia :-)
Byeeee,
JP
From: Laura M.
Dear JP --
You know, if I didn't know better (and maybe I don't), I'd begin to question what that "JP" really stands for after all. Yeah, right, "Jon-Paul" my, ahem! well . . . you know! After that Whaling review, I'm beginning to think it must be something more like "Jiggling Peter" if you know what I mean (nudge nudge wink wink)! And this from a woman who (unknowingly at the time) nicknamed her firstborn "Johnson."
> so I've been indulging myself. I probably shouldn't have downed
> the rest of that bottle of cheap, French table wine (a red one, JP)
> after I put the kids to bed. I'll try to behave myself in future.
Clever the way you left off the rest of the explanation. Are you trying to cheapen my already shoddy reputation? Well, I suppose I should be thankful that you didn't partially quote from the Ailsa/Peter Pan cafeteria exchange.
> Then her eyes caught sight of the sheathed knife, partially
> concealed in the green folds of his tunic, as it dangled enticingly
> on the front of his belt.
> "Can I see your weapon?" she asked, making no effort
to hide her
> increasing awe.
> "Okay," came the seemingly nonchalant response.
> He walked deliberately towards her seat at the table, and with
a
> great show of manliness that only a recently-turned five-year old
> could muster, he boldly unsheathed his knife. Eyes sparkling, she
> grabbed the knife and examined it carefully as he stood there,
> revelling in his pleasure to number such a treasured object among
> his possessions.
I think I need to have a transcript of Dave Dobbyn lyrics so that I can begin stroking -- excuse me! I mean *stoking* -- the passionate fire of lyrical interpretation that Dave's songs so obviously lend themselves to. No wonder I've been able to lose myself so effortlessly when listening to some of those songs. Sure does give "in the *lap* of the gods" a whole new twist now, doesn't it? And speaking of "Twist," I'm even growing suspect of that title, too!
Thanks to you and Chris for providing such entertainment and thanks to the others on this list for having a decent (or should I say "indecent"?) sense of humor. Laughter is, after all, the best medicine -- that is, unless, of course, you are alone in a darkened room and . . . no, no, come back here! Laughing myself silly.
Love,
Laura
From: Chris J.
Kia ora all,
Time is of the essence at the moment, I have pressing matters to attend to, but I thought I should respond to one or two rather interesting points raised in yesterdays post.
Colleen wrote:
>Chris, Chris, Chris...some of the greatest works of art were
created
>under those very circumstances! Why should Dave's creativity be
>denied this avenue??
Some examples please, (To take the degrees of irrelevancy that this list sometimes attains to even further bounds.) Furthermore any reasonably sane and sexually non-deviant human realises that it takes TWO hands to play a guitar, (as it does a harpoon as a matter of fact), so I am still rather dubious of these inferences made regarding the inspiration for Whaling. But I digress....
JP said,
>However I blame the recent decline in standards herein upon one
Laura
> (Templebar) McCutcheon!
I am in entire agreement here, (you thought I had forgotten about the flares/hair thing didn't you?), he he.
And FWIW chalk me up for 'Look *at* the Spanish Gold' (Sorry Colleen), any advancement from the group? (I make that 2-1 to the Southern Hemisphere so far :-) )
Speaking of geometry, I mean geology, JP also asked,
>PS: Chris, where exactly is San Fransico BTW?
Well JP, its somewhere near Taupo eh?
(Sorry I just felt that all needed to be said, maybe something more thought provoking and stimulating tomorrow, (or not) :-} )
Bye for now
CJ
From: Jon-Paul
Hi,
So, Chris, a two handed Harpooning technique huh? Very interesting- you've obviously got unfeasably small hands...
"Jiggling-Peter", Laura? I think not! "Just-Perfection" is a bit closer to the mark!
I can't believe my innocent comment about a fictional character in a song succumbing to "self- gratification" has been twisted beyond all recognition, and suddenly *I'm* the culprit! Well it's time to take this into my own hands, and hit this thing on the head- I feel truly shafted, and I'll go off at any other jerk who continues with this line of personal abuse! :-P
And Laura, by the looks of the exchange between your daughter Ailsa and her dangerously armed friend, you're going to be in for a rough ride during her teenage years. Must be a tough neighbourhood if the 5-year olds are taking knives to to school.
Can't believe your cheek in berating me for quoting you out of context, when in the next breath you're doing it to yourself! ;-)
The complete lack of Dobbyn content in this post has gone far enough... So... umm... Anybody else care to join in on the next big topic? Is it "Looking for Spanish Gold" or "Look at the Spanish Gold" at the end of the live Whaling??? I like Chris's idea of turning this list into a Northern vs Southern Hemisphere battleground- certainly makes a change from bashing Aussies!
Luvya
Jon-Paul (!)
From: Colleen M.
Greetings,
Laura wrote:
> effortlessly when listening to some of those songs. Sure does
give
> "in the *lap* of the gods" a whole new twist now, doesn't it?
I got my CD-ROM enhanced, Dave super-charged US release copy of ENZSO today. I haven't
actually had a chance to listen to or watch it yet. But I will certainly be listening to
his interpretation of "Poor Boy" very closely..."What more can a poor boy
do?", indeed.
Chris took offense with my sexual frustration = artistic genius argument:
> Some examples please, (To take the degrees of irrelevancy that
this
> list sometimes attains to even further bounds.) Furthermore any
> reasonably sane and sexually non-deviant human realises that it
> takes TWO hands to play a guitar, (as it does a harpoon as a matter
> of fact), so I am still rather dubious of these inferences made
> regarding the inspiration for Whaling. But I digress....
It's not the unmentionable act itself which causes genius; rather the state of sexual
frustration--sublimination of desire which results in great creative spur..., umm[m],
episodes. Just think of all those monks in the Middle Ages. And there must be lots of
songs which began in similiar straits. I just know it. But I'm not sure I can prove it.
In any case, I think that Dave should be faxed a copy of our latest digests. I think that it would be the catalyst in releasing his new material that much sooner.
Looking for multiple m's,
Colleen
From: Katie H.
Howdy all,
It's my Fault! I live on it, right on it. Love those earthquakes, especially ones of 7.1 or higher. Pacific Plate sliding past the North American Plate, San Andreas Fault. But, it moves only a few inches a year, rather than flying faster than...what was that metaphor you used, Chris? ;-) Despite the endless quake threats, San Francisco was voted the #1 travel destination in the world. If anyone wants to come visit, I've got a place for you to crash! Special memo to Chris and JP: SF is known as the Sodom and Gomorrah of the US, so I'm sure you'd like it! ;-)
Chris wrote about the oft-disputed opening comments on the live
version Whaling: >Take another listen Katie and tell me what you think.< You're right
Chris. Absolutely spot on. Geez, didn't I originally say I was paraphrasing!
Colleen wrote:
>(You know, I can't help but notice that this discussion was
>introduced "after" Mr. D. had been briefed on our existence and
>"after" he had been sent transcripts. Coincidence??? Hmmm...)
Umm, well, I was thinking the same thing. It's a good thing Dave can't lurk on this list!.
Also, I'm beginning to think it was a good idea I never sent in a bio!
Speaking of screaming ancestors and shouting uncles, I'd be happy to buy Mr. Dobbyn a large vodka and a pen (new drink called The Dobbyn) if he'd just do a gig here in the Bay Area. He can preface his S.F. version of "Whaling" with any odd commentary he wants to.
And finally...
I was listening to some live DD, and I kept rewinding and listening to "Loyal" over and over and over. What a lovely song. I think my favorite line is "Too close for comfort is staying close enough." Anyone have some thoughts on the album "Loyal" in comparison to Dave's most recent stuff?
Ciao,
Katie
PS: BTW, if I may cast my ballot: I think it's "Looking for Spanish Gold. However, the more I listen to the live version, the more it sounds like Dave is singing "I'm alway the first to think of my own hell" rather than health. Doesn't hell make more sense than health? Or do you have written lyrics for the song? Damn, we'll have this song dissected in no time! ;-)
From: Chris J.
Dearest Jon-Paul, (or should that be Judas, without the Preist),
I offer personal insights and constructive criticism and all its met with is mindless references about the size of a members member!
This must cease!
Take note;
Harpoon: A barbed missile attached to a long chord and hurled or fired from a gun when hunting whales.
Self-explanatory, where is the possibilty for sexual innuendo I ask? In fact the mention of a 'chord' in the above definition merely enhances the guitar/harpoon analogy and gives no credence whatsoever to the continuing flogging you're giving the 'self-abuse theory'.
Stop whipping things out of shape and cease with the abuse of this lists members!
Goodbye
CJ.
From: Jon-Paul
Hi,
First things first- Chris...Get a Grip!
In other news...
I'm afraid you North Americans are continuing to mis-hear lyrics- Now Katie agrees with her compatriate about the "Looking For / Looking at the" arguement. And also the lyric sheets for Whaling definitely say "Think of my own health"- which Chris interpreted very well in Wednesdays(?) Umm.
But even though you like the line "Too close for comfort is staying close enough"- this too is incorrect- the real line says the same thing I guess- but I think it is put even better; "Too close for comfort just ain't close enough". (or does this say the opposite? Hard to tell!) But, agreed- Loyal is a fantastic song (As both Rob & Robbie concurred in their recent discussion on "Collection".)
I guess the next step in the discography would be to include lyrics? Would anyone actually like me to do this??
Katie Wrote:
> It's my Fault!
Laura, you'll be happy to hear that, I'm sure- Katie's admitting blame for the state of this list at present! Let's you off the hook somewhat.
>Chris wrote about the oft-disputed opening comments on the live
>version Whaling:
>Take another listen Katie and tell me what you think.
>Then Katie replied:
>You're right Chris. Absolutely spot on. Geez, didn't I originally say
>I was paraphrasing!
Katie, I think you took Chris's comment the wrong way- I think he just wanted some thoughts on the neat tie in between "3000 letters" and "a pen"- which he claimed gave a more emotional attatchment to "his baby" than saying she was simply "3000 *miles* away"! If he was going to insult you, he'd be much funnier, and personal, I'm sure...
And Colleen - searching for multiple M's???? I'd always thought the multiple O's were the most sought after!
Well, I'd behaved myself (more or less for my entire post!)- and it had to be said...
Same Place, Same Time tomorrow,
JP
From: Colleen M.
*******WARNING: This post contains actual Dave Dobyn content.*******
Hello folks,
Katie wrote:
> PS: BTW, if I may cast my ballot: I think it's "Looking
for
> Spanish Gold.
Once again you can see how reasonable and intelligent Americans are. Of coure it's "looking for". It makes grammatical sense within the call and response section:
I'm whaling/Looking for the Spanish gold/At the bottom of the ocean now
You see--it's all present tense using gerunds--parallel structure and all that. Case closed. ;-)
Katie also offered:
> However, the more I listen to the live version, the
> more it sounds like Dave is singing "I'm alway the first to think
> of my own hell" rather than health. Doesn't hell make more sense
> than health?
JP countered with:
> I'm afraid you North Americans are continuing to mis-hear
lyrics-
> Now Katie agrees with her compatriate about the "Looking For /
> Looking at the" arguement. And also the lyric sheets for Whaling
> definitely say "Think of my own health"- which Chris interpreted
> very well in Wednesdays(?) Umm.
I have 2 questions: One, are we all listening to the same versions? (I think Katie and I are) And two, even if the printed lyrics say one thing, isn't it possible that Dave changes them during live performances to suit his mood? And anyway, live versions often don't match up with the lyric sheets (and I feel compelled to point out that lyric sheets do not always match up with recordings, for that matter). As much as I like the "health" explanation Chris offered earlier this week, I feel as if I can give Dave the creative room to change his lyrics when it suits him. So I'm going to sing "hell" too. (And I guess I have a third one, too. Why are you so sure that the Americans are wrong!!??? "Continuing to mis-hear lyrics"???)
Chris wrote:
> Harpoon: A barbed missile attached to a long chord and hurled
or
> fired from a gun when hunting whales.
>
> Self-explanatory, where is the possibilty for sexual innuendo I ask?
Chris, you're absolutely right. I'll concede the point as long I can get assurances from at least two other NZ males who will swear that "hunting whales" does not have any unsavory slang connotations down there.
Later all,
Colleen
P.S. this has been a completely innuendo free post (happy, Chris?)
From: Jon-Paul
JP's list of points to drive home:
1) Re: Chris. "Stop whipping things out of shape and cease with the abuse of this lists members!"
I merely suggested that to operate a harpoon, which in this day and age is normally "trigger" activated (hence the "trigger happy" line in "Whaling")- one should only need one finger, (whether you're male or female), not two hands to pull on it and make it go off. Where's the sexual innuendo in that?, I ask.
2) Colleen & Katie. " I feel as if I can give Dave the creative room to change his lyrics when it suits him. So I'm going to sing "hell" "
Listen, you could sing "It's a long way to Tipperary" for all I care- but let me warn you, I know of a covers band who played "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" at the Seville expo in 1988 to a crowd of antpodeans- and who sang "Woaha Woaha Woaha" instead of "Aotearoa"- and were subsequently admitted to the local infimatory, for various injuries sustained by flying objects. All I'm saying, is that you can feel free to mis-sing lyrics (and yes it is possible Dave changes them) but don't come crying to me if some 6'2 former All-Black standing behind you takes offence and spear tackes you into the dance floor.
3) More on "Health" vs "Hell"- Colleen- sung live, often the last sound in a word is dropped- the "th" is, I reckon, still there- and we are talking about the Gluepot / Language B-side version here. On one of my versions of Whaling, right at the end, Dave sings "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" with no discernable "ling" at the end- but I don't leap to these crazy conclusions that perhaps he's cleverly changed the lyrics to "Weigh"- and altered the meaning of the song. ;-)
4) Why do I think all Americans are wrong? How many of you put money on Holyfield yesterday? I rest my case. There are no Australians on this list (there are Kiwis *living* in Aussie though)- and seeing us Kiwis can't pick on them, the Americans are the next best target...
5) "Hunting Whales" has not, up until this point in time, had any sexual connotations in this country, but I well imagine that what with me & Chris planning to spend the New Years Vacation together, with a bunch of other like minded individuals, the phrases "Manning your Harpoon", and indeed "Hunting Whales" will be used at the most (in)appropriate moments in an attempt to shape the course of modern kiwi slang.
6) For those of you not on the Crowdie list, a report from the people at Thursdays Finn concert in Auckland mentioned DD was about to go into the studio with Bic Runga. Hopefully Nicole will post more details here when she gets the chance.
7) I should be doing stuff, not typing this rubbish, so I'll see you all later.
From: Chris J.
Howdy all!,
Great to see everyone finally coming (nudge nudge) to their senses and ceasing with the relentess to-ing and fro-ing of sexual banter tossed around the list in the past week or so. (you know wot I mean like?) The constant thrashing (wink wink) we were all being subjected to was really giving me one big headache (as it were). Really now can we just put it all behind us and move on like the law-abiding and consenting adults that we are.........
.............And now for something completely different. (where have I heard that before?)
Colleen mentioned in yesterdays post;
>Once again you can see how reasonable and intelligent Americans
are.
>Of coure it's "looking for". It makes grammatical sense within the
>call and response section:
> I'm whaling/Looking for the Spanish gold/At the bottom of the ocean now
>You see--it's all present tense using gerunds--parallel
structure and
>all that. Case closed. ;-)
Weeeell, not so closed :-), the objections are still being heard and the jury's not yet out. To take the 'grammatical sense' argument through to its logical conclusion we should then consider the *whole* of the 'call and response' section at the end, which follows: (NB: this is my interpretation)
I'm Whaling
Whaling (repeat 3x)
This is just bravado
Just bravado
At the bottom of the ocean now
Look at the Spanish gold
What did these eyes behold
Whaling
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
A coupla points here. The "present tense using gerunds" (aren't they small cute looking lab creatures?) argument does not really ring true if we consider the line "What did these eyes behold", which is in the PAST tense. Furthermore if we consider the ocean/gold/behold lines as shown above then we see that they contain 6 beats (syllables) each per line, whereas "Looking for the Spanish gold" contains 7, leaving it the 'odd one out' in that series of 'calls'. Therefore "Look AT THE Spanish gold" would appear to be the most pleasing and appropriate line.
Your witness, People for the United States of America.....
pedantically yours,
CJ
P.S. Colleen (Hi!), well, managed to dredge up one Kiwi male to back me up re: *Hunting Whales*, (ie: JP). Still searching for another, lack of friends and morally sensitive male Kiwis against me.........
From: Colleen M.
Hey y'all,
Chris took me to task:
> (NB: this is my interpretation)
[long explanation snipped]
> "Look at the Spanish gold" would appear to be the most pleasing and
> appropriate line.
Umm[m], I don't think so, but I give you a B+ for your effort and for the work you've put into your essay. But as you are still wrong, I've had to mark you down to a C+. I'm afraid we're going to have to add that to the list of questions to ask Dave one day.
> P.S. Colleen (Hi!), well, managed to dredge up one Kiwi male to
back
> me up re: *Hunting Whales*, (ie: JP). Still searching for another,
> lack of friends and morally sensitive male Kiwis against me.........
Well Chris, I guess it didn't make this explicit in my message, but it should be pretty clear that your word and that of JP will not be accepted as evidence in this matter. No offense meant to you. Just what kind of a moron do you think I am? Hmmm??
Gotta run,
Colleen
P.S.
> but let me warn you, I know of a covers band who played "Six Months
> in a Leaky Boat" at the Seville expo in 1988 to a crowd of
> antpodeans-
> and who sang "Woaha Woaha Woaha" instead of "Aotearoa"- and were
> subsequently admitted to the local infimatory, for various injuries
> sustained by flying objects.
But that *is* a riotable offense (and are you telling me Dave wasn't involved in this one?).
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