Brunch with Rene

We flew into San Diego from San Francisco, the morning of the third. We checked into the hotel. We scrutinized the local paper and found that they'd be showing Image in the Sand that evening. We hadn't seen it yet as our local UPN station had not yet given in and promised to show it. Alas, it was opposite the dinner that night.

We followed the signs to Weekend on the Promenade, ending up in the fifth floor conference room. We picked up our badges and perused the merchandise, and bought raffle tickets and spent some time writing on the back of them. We studied the fan interactions, since we haven't been out and about in Star Trek fandom since the early 90s. Fan gatherings of this type tend to have a higher percentage of females than say your average Creation convention. The smaller attendance, less than 130 people, made this a nice intimate event.

We went back downstairs for the brunch, which wasn't Poolside as previously advertised, because it looked like rain. When we entered we were asked to pick cards from a box. Not understanding the purpose, we were unable to rig it and ended up with white cards, meaning we could sit anywhere except the celebrity tables. We chose two empty seats and noticed that each table had a bottle of champagne, only Andre, but promising nonetheless. There was a lot of applause and cheers as Rene entered and took his place at one of the tables.

The breakfast buffet was set up in the next room, so a few tables of people would trail out and get their food and then the next few. We were in the last set of tables to eat. But then we usually are. We craned our necks and tried to see what Rene was doing through Brunch. But he was just eating.

Then the party was moved back up to the fifth floor. We snagged some front row seats for the auction, and better picture taking. There were many auction items, mostly autographed scripts, photos and sides. (Sid sides.) We were very good and didn't bid on very much, except when those B&W 8x10's would come up, but even then we tried not to go over forty. But our good sense was over come when a press kit for In The Pale Moonlight was offered. It wasn't even signed, at the time, but we had to have it. We were however outbid on the Cardassian ship featuring the headless Garak.

Next on the program, though a little late, was Rene Auberjonois' Question and Answer session. It was held in the same room immediately after the auction. At first the small crowd was unable to hear Rene.

Rene Auberjonois - Question and Answer

Rene: Well, I ain't going to scream at you the whole time. Oh, there's a microphone. [Cordless; it more resembled a small tape recorder.] Does this work? Do anything? I 'm supposed to know this? Barely found our way here. I put this here? Can you hear me? Really, that does it? Fine. I have no idea what we were talking about when I was so rudely interrupted. Oh, remembering names. I can't remember what I was talking about either. I'm digressing here, but one of the things that I said to Johnny Phillips after the first couple of conventions that he did. He said "These are fantastic, I love it. I love it out there." I said, "Don't take this for granted. This is the easiest crowd in the world you'll ever play to. They laugh appreciatively at everything you say." [The crowd laughs appreciatively]. So anyway I have the worst memory for names... so what? So here I am, but I do recognize a lot of your faces. And it is great to see you. It's just amazing to me that Gayle, and everybody else, has been so terrific about organizing this, because this really is the most special kind of get together that we could ever hope to have in this Star Trek world. It's great. I'm really happy to be here.

I took a train down this morning. Wonderful. Sat and drank coffee and typed away on my wife's laptop computer. If any of you know anything about me you know I've been a computerphobe for years and just within the last nine months I've been sucked into the vortex. I don't really go out on the web an awful lot, but I just love it. So I came down on the train and I wrote away, typed away on the thing. There was a woman across the aisle looking at me and I think she thought I was the most pitiful character she'd ever seen. I don't care what she thinks. It's where we all learn what's going to happen next on our show. Absolutely true.

I've told this story before about being at a convention in Australia a few years ago. I was answering questions and somebody raised their hand and asked me what I thought about the fact that Michael Dorn was going to be joining the show. I said "That's great. I didn't know that." It was great and it has been great.

So here we are. We're starting show number nine of the last season of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. [The crowd groans at the mention of this being the last season.] Yeah, it's sad, but it's time. It's seven years, that more than I ever thought we'd get to do. And I've loved... well... almost every minute of it. I'm going to be very, very sorry when I don't have a regular job to go to. My whole background as an actor I've been so blessed. I started in repertory theatre right out of college. And I've always been, essentially throughout my career, I've always been a member of a company, a member of an ensemble. And it has always been to me the dream for an actor to be part of a company, part of a family, part of a group of people who collaborate and create something. Over the course of time there is this shorthand that's developed, and this way of working that is very, very enriching. So I am going to be sad to see it go, to see that aspect of it end. But I would be less than candid if I didn't say that the other part of me... seven years is a long time to investigate one character. Although this has been, frankly, a lot faster and a lot "easier" than doing Clayton Endicott III for six years, because that character really didn't develop. I mean, that character, he developed because we all grew older and we all, again, established this way of working. Things happen, but the character was the same character at the end as he was at the beginning. He was still, "Benson, Benson, Benson." That's what his job was. That's what my job was and it was a heck of a lot of fun, and a lot easier work than Star Trek, but over the time period it was a lot harder to sustain the creative juices. You know the problem for an actor is, if it's on Broadway doing a show for a year, running it eight times a week, there is a certain point where you confront the need, or the danger of simply recreating and not creating every time you come out. Really creating again in front of the audience. In Star Trek that's not been a problem because they put us all through so many changes. I mean, please! I haven't seen Ira Behr in a while but the next time I see him, I'm gonna look at him and, "Hello! What's happening?!" Because you just never know.

And as I say I hear about it through the computer or people who have seen it on the web, or whatever. So I'm not here to give you spoilers and tell you what's coming up. I guess the season just started for you guys. As I say, we're in show number nine, and that's amazing, four more shows and we'll be halfway through the season. It'll be interesting for me to see how all these threads get tied up. People always ask me... well not always, but a question now that I'm beginning to get from people is, "Well, how would you like to see Odo's story evolve or culminate or whatever is going to happen to him?" I have very different reactions to that depending on the day or depending on the hour or that week has been going. We can talk about that later. It's really better to open this up to questions, because I find that I'll just babble on here. It's better to get some questions, because that keeps it going. So, why don't we have a question?

Question: re: a play, Don Juan in Hell, he's done with Ed Asner, and whether they intend to reprise it.

Rene: I had dinner with Ed Asner last night, and we never raised the subject. I'm sure we will do it again. Actually this last hiatus was the first time in six that we haven't done it on hiatus. There are a couple of reasons. We were booked to do it and we had to withdraw from those bookings, primarily because Ed was not available this hiatus. He was on a cruise. He and Cindy just got married. Cindy is an old friend of Judith's and mine. We actually introduced Ed and Cindy. And Ed goes, [Does Ed Asner impression] "Yeah, thanks a lot." Such a gruff character, you just can't take him seriously. But anyway he wasn't free to do it. I'm sure we'll do it again. Without Ed, I mean, Ed is the big enchilada in that cast. Harris Yulan is no slouch. He's a great actor. You all know him from our show in that fabulous show Duet, in which he played the Cardassian. So Harris is a great actor, but he's not a name. And the women have changed. This is a piece, Don Juan in Hell, which is a sort of a concert version and you stand at podiums and we deliver this piece from a play by George Bernard Shaw. It's very witty and a lot of people get to have a lot of fun, and I play the Devil. Harris Yulan plays Don Juan who has just died and come down to hell. He meets the Commander, who Ed Asner plays, who Don Juan killed in a duel many years before. There's Ann, who is the daughter of the Commander who is in love with Don Juan, and who has chased him through eternity. Then there's this big discussion they get into. They talk about whether heaven is better than hell and what love means. The women have been very different. We've had Diane Weist, who's a wonderful actress, and Judith Ivy another wonderful actress and Nira Furlan from Babylon 5, and Cherry Jones was the last one who did it with us. I don't know why the women keep changing, but the men just plod along. But anyway, that was the long answer to your question. I'm sure we'll do it again. There are other plans for it right now. In fact, personally, I feel the next time we do it we should take it a step beyond. We stand at podiums and read it, essentially. We really know it, but we have it there, and we're in tuxedos and it's very elegant. I think it would be good to develop it a little further now, and really get off book, so to speak and move around the stage. It could still be very formal. I know Harris would love to televise the performance; put it on tape and sell it that way. Hopefully someday we'll get to do that.

Question: re: What it's like to portray Kira and Odo's romantic relationship.

Rene: It is the epitome of safe sex. It is really not sexy. It doesn't feel like...It's quite weird. The first time Odo and Kira ever kissed was in the Children of Time episode where Odo is two hundred years older. It was a different kind of mask and it was more gentle kiss. So that was a little bit easier to maneuver in. For the big kiss that happened at the end of His Way at the end of last season, that was... I've told this story before, but it was weird, because you shoot everything out of sequence. That happened to be one of the very first scenes we shot in the episode. And we think, "oh, well, Nana and Rene they've known each other for six years. It's no problem. They're friends. It's not... you know." But it's almost more awkward to have a love scene with someone that you know and are very close to, albeit on a platonic level. It's almost more difficult than if a complete stranger comes on the set, as was the case with A Simple Investigation. Somehow the willing suspension of disbelief was easier to attain with someone you didn't know very well than with Nana, who I've known her... she's a vastly attractive woman, but we have no... you know... not a thing going on there. Sid?! Sid?!. [He calls out the name to indicate that Nana's attentions are firmly taken elsewhere. Or to make sure there are no jealous husbands in the area.] And so it was weird.

You know, the way you do it is you come in early in the morning, and I'm in make-up. Before they shoot the last thing my make-up artist does before I come on to the set at the beginning of the day is the last touches around the mouth, which are the most difficult part of the make-up. He powders it like crazy, so I look like I've just eaten a sugar donut. I walk around for the next hour or so while they light and we rehearse and people make comments like, "Oh, you looks like you just ate a donut." [Spoken with a very hee-yuck accent.] Believe me, over six years, I've heard that remark so many times. *snore* So I'm standing there with my little white face, with Nana, and were not really fully in costume yet. I've just got my pants on. We're sort of wandering in and the director was saying, "So you walk down the thing here and you're talking, you're talking and you come to this point here." And they lay tape down on the floor so you can see where you're supposed to stop, and then you talk, you have those lines, and then you kiss. We go back to start walking down so they can time it for the camera. We're standing there and Nana says, "This is so weird," and I look at her and say, "Yeah, but we're pros we can handle this." We took it slowly and we walked down and we did the lines and we stopped on the marks and we're just not really acting full steam ahead her. Sort of, "yadda, dadda, dadda," and "yadda, yadda, dadda" and "babba, babba, dabba" and then we kiss. And we sort of indicated we kissed and that was right; that was the rehearsal. So now they're lighting it and we go get the final touches and they taking the powder off my face and they put me into costume and Nana's ready. They get ready for final rehearsal; the last rehearsal before you actually shoot. Sort of dress rehearsal. So now you're doing it up to speed and we're going to have to really do the kiss. And we walk on and we're talking and talking and we get to the marks and we're talking and talking, "Why don't you kiss me," "Well, why don't I" and *umph* we kiss each other, and we stop and they say cut, "That was great,". Film wasn't rolling, but they still say cut. And I look at Nana and she's got this big blob of orange. And I look at her like, what happened to her and I realize it's me. And then I turn and look at Dean, my make-up artist and, "Oh, Dear" [he mimics Dean's expression.] Dean is from North Carolina and he calls me sir. He's a brilliant young man. "Oh dear, well, sir, I think you better come back to the trailer, sir." And so we go back to the trailer and I realize what's happened is that I've kissed her so hard that I've torn a whole in the side of my face and he has to patch it and glue it back together again.

It's weird. Believe me that, relative to the kind of things they show in films nowadays, that was an incredibly innocent thing, but people always wonder well, what's it like in film to do that sort of thing. Whether it's simulating the actual act of love in film, which I've only had to do once, many years ago in a film by Robert Altman, called Images, where I played Susannah York's husband and we had to be naked in bed together. Well, I wasn't actually naked. I had my underpants on and she had her underpants on and she had a top on, so I could work with this lady. My wife was nine months pregnant, she delivered the baby a few days later in Dublin Ireland, and Susannah was five months pregnant, so it was pretty innocent. Nothing going on, but people after that would say to me, friends would say to me, "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more". And I would have to say, imagine what it would be like if you were... imagine doing something that intimate on a construction site. That's what it's like. It's not sexy at all. There were people lowering lights, moving cables, putting marks down where your elbow is supposed to be in the bed and where you roll over. And they're all talking and they're eating donuts. It's just not a sexy situation. How did I get on to this? About the kiss. It is weird. It was like there was something in between us.

Question: Re: Missing the other cast members once DS9 is finished.

Rene: Not as time goes by and over the long run, I still miss the folks from Benson, and the people from ACT , a theatre company that I helped found in the sixties, but as an old character actor said to me once, when I was saying good-bye again after a show, he said, "There's only one thing I know about this business, you meet people coming and going and going and coming and going," One of the wonderful things about working on Deep Space Nine and the wonderful guests that they hire to come to do guest shots on the show, and when you've been in the business as long as I have, there was hardly a week I don't walk on the set and see some old friend that I've worked with, or known socially, or has played a major part in my creative life. Because it is ultimately a pretty small business, a pretty small town. There are thousands and thousands of people who want to work and a pitifully small number of people who actually get to work. That's this business and now I have two children, both of them starting in this business and *Unnhhh* [expression of pain]. Another question?

Question: Re: What he's doing besides Star Trek.

Rene: I'm going to be doing Poltergeist, another Poltergeist in January during our break. I just finished doing the Inspector Gadget, the feature film coming out this summer. I think my character dies before the credits finish But it's a sweet kind of character, Dr. Adam, partly the inventor of Inspector Gadget. It's a nice change of pace, because he's an absent minded professor guy. He's very sweet. He dances with this little robotic foot. It's fun. I continue to, do a little radio drama... doing one with David Warner, next month, or actually this month, October. Next weekend. Oh, that's why the director called yesterday. And I didn't call her back. What else? And I'm going to... I was going to make some bad joke and now if I do that suddenly it will be out on the internet. And I'm going to try to get Armin's job on Buffy. I say kill that principal. No. It's fabulous. Armin is great. [By which we can deduce that Armin has come into the room at this point.] That's it to that question? Got another one?

Question: Re: Any possibility of Rene doing a one man show based on Einstein

Rene: Well, that's a great idea. One man shows are tricky. They're very seductive, but it's very hard to really sustain one person on stage. I mean, I think it can be done. And Einstein, fascinating character. My feeling about that Doogie Howser you mentioned where I played a poster of Einstein on the wall, was that I looked more like Albert Schweitzer. I can actually think of a lot of actors, like my dear friend Michael Tucker from L.A. Law, he would just make a perfect Einstein, as far as I concerned. Back when I first knew him as a young man he had wild einsteinian hair and a moustache. He looked like a very young Einstein. So it's an appealing idea. He is a great character. There is a writer Tom Wolfe who wrote Bonfire of the Vanities, a wonderful writer. He's a journalist, but he's also a... he creates these fantastic characters I would love to play. Tom Wolfe the writer himself is a very flamboyant and elegant man. Sort of a dandy. He's always in an ice cream suit, a white suit, a tailored walking suit, a very dapper guy. I thought it would be wonderful to do a one-man show invoking his persona and then going into all these different characters he creates. I'm interested really, in being a lot of different characters. I guess I feel that way particularly now, because I'm at the end of a seven year stint of playing essentially one character. I've done other things, but I'm hungry to get out there and tear off my mask. For seven years I've been emotional and I hope expressive in the mask, but it has been a big challenge. It's been good for me because I come from the stage. When you come from the stage into film your responsibility as an actor is to learn how to pull the focus in for that particular lens, that audience. It's such a specific... it's a different kind of audience than a large audience. When you come from the stage into film, you have to learn how to narrow down. As opposed to, if you've only done film and then you go to the stage your responsibility is to learn how to make it objective rather than focus it. It was good for me, in that, as an actor I have never been accused of underplaying. I always like to be as large or very specific caricatures. And Odo really, I made a choice to cover, quite apart from the make-up. The make-up actually in the first few episodes was really only several pieces and I was the one who asked, and eventually got them to, experiment with making the whole mask. Which they were very wary of because they were afraid I wouldn't be able to express any emotion and I finally prevailed and convinced them. And then they saw that I could project emotion even though the face is fairly immobile, when in fact my personal face, sitting here right now, is a very mobile face. I made that choice as a conscious choice to limit myself, to see if I could get through that without using my face, and I think it's been very good for me personally, creatively, as an actor. And I think that it's also professionally a good choice to have made. To come out of seven years of playing a character who's been masked, even though you can sort of see that it's my face, but it is a mask, and I'm going to take that mask off now. Because, honestly at the end of Benson, I worked. I've been really blessed as a character actor and I never stopped working, but working on television was not a real option for a while and it was a real challenge to convince the powers that be at Star Trek that I could play a character so different from Clayton. And it was really Rick Berman who recognized that I was going to be able to do that and was in my corner was in my corner from the very beginning and convinced the high mucky mucks at Paramount who kept saying *mumble, mumble, mumble*. Rick finally said, "You know his whole face is going to be covered." "Oh, yeah." Babbling on here.

Question: Have you ever been to the Star Trek convention in Denver and would you be willing to go if they asked you?

Rene: Yes and Yes. I went the first year to Denver. It was great. Big convention, right? I went the first year and I'd love to go back. Conventions...I guess I wasn't really clear, but the reason this is so special is because it's more intimate than most conventions are. This is almost like being on a cruise; except on a cruise I have to go hide in my room. Not here I don't; it's fabulous. I will tell you just one quick story. I hope I can do this here. We were on a cruise in the Caribbean once, Armin, Kitty and I, and a lot of people. For seven days when you're on a boat it can get a little tense. And you feel like people have their eyes on you all the time. There was one place I discovered on this ship that nobody was ever in and it was the nude sunbathing section. A section up on the deck where you can go in, but it had a baffled entryway, but you couldn't go in unless you went around. It was just a big open under the sky section of the deck where people could sunbathe. But no one was ever in there so I would go in there in my briefs and do yoga. It was great. It was a really quiet space outdoors. It was really peaceful. So I was doing my yoga, and I was in some weird posture and was standing there on one leg or something and a woman kind of stuck her head in. She disappeared. Then I hear this kind of scraping noise and she pushed ahead of her this deck chair. She pushed this deck chair and I'm still standing there on one leg and she pulls this deck chair up to like this far away and sits down and lies back there. And finally I said, "please could I get some space." And she was very good and got up and left, but left the deck chair there. But as I say, I digress, what were we talking about. Oh, yes, conventions. I guess what made me get off on this tangent was thinking of going to Denver during the first season when the bloom was on the rose and there was all this excitement. [At this time there are some comments which we can't hear from Armin who is now in the audience listening to Rene.] Armin Shimerman everybody. [applause]. He flew down here, and you've got to know that I've sat next to him on airplanes and it's not a pretty sight.

The bloom was on the rose and it was all new to me and now it's changed. I have theories about this. I think it's really Paramount's fault. And I think now in retrospect, I think I knew, and I think we knew in our hearts from the beginning that to take The Next Generation off the air, at it's very peak when it really could sustain and have more stories to tell and had really built an audience. And because it was the new one, it had really had to struggle to get that audience coalesced again. It succeeded in doing that and Paramount, as Armin says, the real Ferengi, took it off the air, but before they took it off the air they brought us in. So there was Deep Space Nine and there was The Next Generation and they were finishing their season as we were beginning ours. And then they went off to make films and we hardly caught our breath and Voyager came in. It's easy to make glib statements about going to the well once to often, or strangling the goose who lays the golden eggs, or whatever. Milking the cow dry or whatever images you want to say. But more than that the real sin was removing the uniqueness of Star Trek at a time when there was much more product coming into the marketplace. Star Trek had led the way, Star Trek and a couple of shows, Beauty and The Beast, had led the way... Star Trek really was, I think the one that led the way and showed the powers that be that there was a vast passionate audience for non-reality based programming, fantasy programming, sci-fi programming whatever you want to call it, an alternate to cop shows, lawyer shows, doctor shows. There was an audience for that, a literate audience that was interested in that. And at a time when other producers were realizing that and putting stuff into the market place that fed that desire for the audience. Things like Babylon 5, X-Files and you know more of them than I do. At that very time they took the uniqueness away from Star Trek. There wasn't only one Star Trek. Now there's an original Star Trek, in perpetual reruns and there's The Next Generation in perpetual reruns, there's Deep Space Nine and there's Voyager and there are the movies. I have friends who say which one are you on? The one with the bald guy or what? I didn't mean to get into that diatribe. It's been something I've been thinking about a lot as we wind this down. I think, my guess is, that down the road, time will tell. I think I might be right about this, that Deep Space Nine once it is completed and, once it is it's own entity, and it starts to be there in the consciousness of the audience, I think it will be recognized as it's own, particularly unique, version of Star Trek that is a very wonderful thing. I know you approve, I'm not asking for your approval. You wouldn't be here if you didn't agree. Anyway another question?

Question: [inaudible]

Rene: It's a question about...this young woman is from San Francisco where ACT, this company which my wife and I were founding members of, is still very much alive and well, and I was up for the... I hosted the opening of the Geary theatre, which was our theatre, which was destroyed in the big earthquake in 89. It was beautifully renovated and put back together again and Carrie Kurlov who's the director of that theatre and I have been, every season, in contact with each other and I want to back there and do something. It's just that it isn't possible while we're still filming a regular television series. Just not possible, but she has asked on a number of occasions and I'm hoping. [Incomprehensible about college.] But then when I left and went to ACT, I was a leading member of that company and was given an opportunity to play an extraordinary range of roles. So I do hope to get back there, and I hope to get back to the theatre. For us, we who live in Los Angeles there the [inaudible] forum, which is the only game in town in terms of establishment theatre [inaudible] So I hope to work there again. I hope to go back to New York. Last hiatus I went to the Roundabout Theatre and did a workshop, a two week rehearsal on a two performance production of a new musical with Richard Barber and [inaudible].

Question: Re: Whether he wanted his children to go into acting.

Rene: I sort of feel sorry for myself. I realize there's an aspect of that that is true. That, you know, if I were a plumber or a brain surgeon and my children decided to go into acting, I might be concerned, I might be worried about it, but it would essentially be from a position of ignorance. Whereas I'm concerned and I'm worried about it and I know why. But the truth is, beyond that I think that, depending on the kind of parent you are, this is the kind of parent I am, you're going to be worried about them and concerned for them no matter what they have decided to do.

My kids are really gifted. My daughter just graduated from Yale graduate program in May and she went to New York. She started pounding the pavements and going on the rounds and getting rejecting, and my heart was throbbing in my chest and I offered up prayers for her and was worried for her, talked to her. We discussed things. To discuss rejection with your child is very painful, but you have to try and be supportive. And my son, at the same time was performing as Orlando in As You Like It in a wonderful Shakespeare festival out on Long Island. He was high as a kite. He was king of the roost. He was just doing great. So I didn't have to worry about him. I was happy about him and worrying about my daughter. So in the last couple of weeks my daughter, against intense competition got a role in a full off-Broadway production of a play of Train Spotting. There was a film some of you may have seen; a very tough to take film about lower class Scottish drug addicts. It's a four-character play with only one woman and every young actress in her age group was out after this role and a Tony award-winning actress was going for it. My daughter got it because she could do an absolutely authentic Glasgow Scottish accent, because of her training. I asked her, "how did you learn that?" She said, "I don't know, Dad." So now she's started rehearsals on Monday and she's high as a kite and she's in seventh heaven, she's earning the money, she's doing great. And my son, who just entered Yale, he went right from playing Orlando right to the graduate school at Yale, he's depressed. "I don't know, Dad, I'm depressed. I'm sleeping too much. I don't know it feels weird. I'm taking the watch apart. Am I ever going to get it back together again? I don't know." My daughter was a ballet dancer and gymnast and her whole ethic is training. My son is a clown. He just sort of does it. He's never liked training. He never took piano lessons or tae kwon do, but he's really brilliant. I was telling Ed Asner just last night at dinner and he said, "Well, I have a feeling he'll probably bomb bigger than she will, but he'll probably hit it higher than she will." I don't know; it's probably true. So, anyway that's the long answer to that.

Question: Do you have one role you still want to do?

Rene: Yeah, it's Armin's role on Buffy. I'm sorry I didn't mean to do that. One role I want to do? It's hard, especially when you've been around as long as I have. I mean you've paid your dues and you've been part of your... so there does come a time when... [inaudible] Sometimes people do that and I'm the worst. That question is as hard for me as the question... well, it's harder, because it's more important, but the questions I sometimes get from Star Trek audiences; "What's the funniest thing that ever happened?" or "What's the best episode you ever did?" I don't have anything that requires an "est" at the end of it. And the problem with doing the role... THE ROLE, I have played some of the greatest roles in theatrical literature. I've played King Lear.

Question: What's your favorite.

Rene: I don't have a favorite. My favorite is what I'm doing at the time. But you almost have to say that because it's the way you keep doing it. You have to be focused on that. You can say, "Mmmm, I'd like to taste a little of that," but you have to eat the meal you're eating, and you have to pay attention to it; digest it; do it justice. You know, I could say, "Oh yes, I'd like to do..." I did King Lear when I was twenty-five years old. I was not very good. Then I went on and I played the fool in Lear a few years later at Lincoln Center with Lee J. Cobb, and then I went on and played Edgar in Lear with James Earl Jones as Lear. I've always said... I think it is my favorite play in the world. It's just a great play... I've always said, the thing about Lear is you have to play it while you are young enough to physically be able to get through it, because it's like running a marathon, but you also have to be old enough so you can sort of understand what's going on. So, if that criteria stands then I'd better do it fairly soon. I was actually asked to do it at the New York Shakespeare festival this last hiatus. Of course, it didn't fit into my schedule. Harris Yulan just sent me a note that says, "Please come and see me." He's doing it! So I didn't say, "Well, they asked me first."

Armin Shimerman's and Rene's Q and A

Armin joins Rene in his Q and A.

Rene: I have to apologize. I thought he was just sitting here listening.

Armin: I thought so too.

Armin starts to go back towards his seat, but Rene pulls him back.

Rene: No I want you to be up here. I just didn't want to... Come on in. Come on in! Oh,look.

[Alfina Wilson, from Hawaii who'd given Rene his Lei, also had one for Armin and put it on him.]

Armin: I'm getting lei'd

Rene: I'm not jealous.

Armin: [Noticing Rene's Lei.] I know where you've been.

[Armin sits down on the table.]

Armin: I'm just going to use this to sit and listen. So you just keep asking your questions.

Rene: Nah, nah. Ask him some questions.

Question: Re: Odo not using any weapons for Law Enforcement even when he wasn't able to shape shift.

Rene: I love to hear that observation about the character and, of course… I mean, it's happened a number of times that a new director will come on the show and say, "Okay, so now you take your phaser out," and I go, "I never use a phaser." And that has never been violated. But candidly, the truth is I think you see Odo screw up more as security officer than you see him achieve success. More people get assassinated. It's terrible. He never fires a shot, he just says, "Hey! Come back here. Get back here now!"

Armin: Remember the time you took me away and the very next moment they kidnapped Sisko off the station. I mean we were walking away…

Rene: And I'm taking him in for petty larceny… nothing, taking him to a holding cell, and the Captain is being *shrrrkkkk*.

Rene: Come on up. Kitty Swink, ladies and gentleman.

[Armin's wife and a guest star on DS9. Applause. She comes up and gives Armin a kiss.]

Armin: I got lei-d, Sweetheart.

Kitty: That's so cute.

Question: How do you like your role on Buffy?

Armin: I like it because it's different, and I like it because of the people I work with, and I guess being in law enforcement as well.

[Crowd laughs. Someone makes comment about Principal on Buffy not being a nice guy.]

Armin: I differentiate between programs. I say I'm a butthead on one and an asshole on the other. Bringing the level of the conversation down.

Rene: You should have been here earlier.

[Inaudible question, accompanied by much laughter and no audible answer.]

Question: Re: Expelling Buffy.

Armin: She, of course, comes back. It's like trying to steal Sisko off the station, he's coming back. And what happens after that… she has to deal with [inaudible]. She'll have to do some later on [inaudible].

Question: Are you going to be on that long?

Armin: I actually think they'll kill me off.

Question: Re: Becoming a Vampire.

Armin: I don't want to be a Vampire. I've had enough rubber in my life. Question?

Question: Re: Something about an accent he did.

Armin: I was there when Rene's daughter was learning the Scottish accent.

Question: I was told Armin that you, and I didn't recognize you, that you were the [inaudible] in the [inaudible] commercial.

Armin: [Joking] You're right you didn't recognize me. It wasn't me. It was Rene. I was up for the job too, but they went with Rene.

Question: re: What it was like to dress in drag.

Armin: I have great respect for women who walk around in high heels. That was a fascinating week to… I have to tell you [inaudible something about the prosthetics necessary for being a female.] Every man, woman and child on that set wanted to squeeze me.

Rene: I was never on the set with you. I would've squeezed…

Armin: You would have?

Kitty: Because you're a slut.

Rene: I'm a slut? I used to squeeze Terry. I'll explain that.

[Keep in mind, this is not serious, just good-humored joking.]

Armin: You don't mean here and now?

Rene: Well, those, weren't Terry's those, uh.. things.

Armin: They weren't?

Rene: Naaah.

[A pause of silence.]

Armin: Well, that brought everything down.

Question: Re: Rumor she heard that he liked dogs and vacuuming.

Armin: Yeah, I don't like to fly but I do like to vacuum. Yes, I get great solace from that.

Rene: Wait a minute, you vacuum your dogs?

Armin: They like it.

Rene: I thought that was the major difference between human beings and dogs, is that human beings aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners. My dogs, the vacuum cleaner goes and they are in Jersey.

Armin: My vacuum is in Jersey. No, no you're right, the dogs hate the vacuum.

Rene: Oh, they do?

Armin: Yeah, they hate the vacuum. I like the vacuum. They like to watch me vacuum. It's very sadistic. The dogs now think of it as a game actually. They bite the thing on the bottom and then I kick them and then they go away. There'll be a message on the internet about this tonight.

[No actually, it's taken us weeks.]

Armin: No, I don't kick my dogs.

Rene: I vouch for that. They love their dogs.

Armin: And he loves his dogs.

Kitty: And we love his dogs.

Rene: And we love their dogs. That could be a series. We love their dogs.

Armin: Gayle, are we done?

Gayle: We need to do signing. We're going to do more of this later though.

Rene: Great. We're gonna sign.

[Applause from crowd]

Autograph Session

Occasionally a Gathering volunteer would come out and ask if anyone wanted just Rene's autograph. From this we deduced that Armin Shimerman was giving each and every fan his personal attention, and holding up the line. Well, there was only a hundred twelve of us, how long could it take? Answer: They had to delay dinner an hour.

Eventually we did get in. We had Kitty Swink sign the program book for us and took a picture with her. The lines weren't clearly defined but we somehow managed to get into Rene's line. We had him sign a B&W photo and our Defiant Ornament. We mentioned to him how much we had enjoyed His Way. Then, since Armin's line was still pretty long, we bought a script from Lolita Fatjo. [DS9 script coordinator.] In The Pale Moonlight, which went so well with the Press Kit we'd just bought.

Finally we made it to the front of Armin's line. We had him sign the script, a photo, the ornament, and our copy of The Rules of Acquisition. We asked if he knew if there'd be a sequel, i.e. a complete set rules. And he replied that there was Legends of The Ferengi. We had seen this at the Merchandise Table but it wasn't in collectible condition. We also told him that we'd be seeing him at Take A Chance With the Stars - American Cancer Society Benefit the third weekend in October. He said that they had wanted him to take a turn at the Craps table for that event, but he had insisted on dealing Blackjack. We found out why when we went to TAC.

Dinner with Rene, Armin and Andy

Armin and Kitty came into the room, wearing virtually identical suits. Kitty swears this was totally accidental. They seemed a little disappointed not to be seated together. Armin came over to his table. At Kitty's table she asked for everyone to introduce themselves and say where they were from. At Armin's table we discussed DS9's seventh season not being shown in Los Angeles yet.

Rene came in and sat at the table towards the back and then Andy came in and sat at the front center table. We should mention that our memories of the dinner conversation grew a bit fuzzy as we were both rather distracted by Andy's presence. Armin talked about his storyline in Image in The Sand/Shadows and Symbols, and his book 34th Rule and Creation Conventions. Armin praised both Andy and Rene's acting abilities, and Andy's abilities as a Director.

We had dinner, in the same orderly fashion as Brunch. There was however nothing to drink, but water, coffee and tea. Dinner was Ceasar salad, chicken, fish, rolls, wild rice, rosemary potatoes, and a vegetable mix, and a choice of cheesecake or chocolate cake for dessert. Typical banquet fare.

Immediately after dinner was the presentation of the Quilts. The fan clubs presented Rene and Armin with quilts. Each one had various panels that depicted moments in their careers. They were both quite touched. Armin and Kitty came up together to accept theirs. [Andy and Sid already had Quilts.]

Garak's Diaries

Armin Shimerman - Question and Answer

Question: Nearly everyone on the show has had their hand in directing. Have you any interest in directing?

[Better acoustics in the banquet room. Some questions will be verbatim.]

Armin: No. I have no desire to direct for two reasons. One, it's an enormously large job and two, I have no desire to direct those people.

Question: How about theatre?

Armin: I would like to direct a theatre piece. That would be great. I've watched Andy and Rene direct and their both phenomenally good at it, and I would like to learn to begin to be able to do that.

Question: I'd like to hear you talk about doing Profit and Lace and some of the controversy over some of the re-shoots you had to do.

Armin: Profit and Lace for those of you who aren't up on all the titles, and for a moment I had to think, now which one is that, Profit and Lace is the one where Quark becomes Lumba. [There's a wolf whistle from the crowd, and laughter.] Who was that? I think I said this earlier. I did. This amazes me. Every man, woman and child on that set needed to pinch me. We had to re-shoot. Sid, who did a wonderful job, was the director and he had this concept about the heart attack scene, where Quark tells his mother off. They just didn't like the way he had originally directed it. I don't know why. They just didn't. So we had to go back. In fact we had to do many scenes over. Not because Sid wasn't doing what the producers wanted or just simply that we had to do them over. I'm just burying myself here. It's not fair you want me to answer that.

Question: We know that the first cut was a little darker, and they wanted it to be funnier.

Andy: Yes, that was the last season. Armin go for it.

Armin: I'm not covering my tracks. I really don't know how to answer this question. I've never been loathe to tell what I think is the truth. It was a much darker episode the first time Sid directed it, and the producers wanted it to be more comical. They reminded us that it was a Ferengi episode. Now, Andy and Rene have both directed Ferengi episodes and I'm sure that they may be able to tell you that Ferengi episodes are meant to be comic relief in the season. The problem is that they usually have a lot more depth to them than the producers want to show you and so what happens is that the actor playing Quark wants to go off to that depth and he convinces the directors that there's more here than meets the eye and they fall into the trap of listening to him. So there's sometimes a problem at the head office that episodes get to be a little darker than they're supposed to be. And Sid listened more than anyone else. But I must say, for Sid, that he's right. I prefer the darker side of that episode, than the lighter side they made him re-shoot. I can see Lolita over there thinking. I know she hears straight from the writers so she knows. She's going, "I remember that." Any other questions. Lets get off this one.

Question: How did the development of your book come about? Is writing something you've always wanted to do and this was an opportunity for your outlet?

Armin: I try to make these answers short, but thank you for asking. I have two books, two books he said in parentheses. I have two books coming out sometime this year. One is a Star Trek novel called The 34th Rule, which is being edited by the man who refuses to answer Andy's calls. But I can top that Andy, he refuses to pay us. He's about four months late. And that I will say, and you here will all understand, that is a William Shatner book, as far as my contribution is concerned. My name is on the cover and that's about it. I did do the outline with David George and David George did the book. It is his book. He's done a wonderful job. I recommend you go out and buy it whenever it comes out, because I think David has done a great job of telling a wonderful story, a very cosmic story, and seeing, just as Andy did for you just now, seeing the world through the Cardassian point of view, we squash the show into a Hew-mon point of view when we see Star Trek. And this particular novel is about seeing that neighborhood through Ferengi eyes. Not necessarily comic ones either. It has a great take on prejudice. And those of us who play aliens on the show recognize the human prejudice that is inherent in Starfleet attitude. I'm going to get tarred and feathered for this now. You never see them calling us… they do occasionally call us Quark, or whatever our names are, Garak, but they tend to say "We got the Ferengi", "We did in the Cardassian." It's a rather racist attitude. That's my opinion. But that's the book David and I did, and I'm very proud of it, although David did all the writing.

I also have another book coming out at the same time, which is called The Merchant Prince, that is not a Star Trek book, but is a science fiction book, and I did write anywhere from thirty to forty percent of that book. And that is a book about a character that lives in Elizabethan times and we put him in the 21st century. As some of you may know, I'm an ardent fan of Elizabethan times, and Shakespeare in particular, and so a great deal of that book comes from my mother wit. And I'm very proud of that as well

Question: I love you as Quark, but are you going to let Buffy back into High School?

Armin: I expelled the bitch, she stays out.

[Cheers]

Armin: And if she brings another one of those woooden stakes into the classroom…

Question: When you said something about a more serious tone for the Ferengi stories being told, were you referring to, Business as Usual The arms dealer?

Armin: Yes, thank you, absolutely that is a Sid directed episode, yes.

Question: And that was very serious. The look on poor Quark's face when he finally figured out was going on.

Armin: Right. The problem is they've hired an actor to play Quark who doesn't think of himself as a Comic actor, and therefore is constantly looking for more of a serious side to the character. So in that particular episode, I think that the writers actually listened to me as well. Not that I suggested the episode. By no means. We have no input in that whatsoever, but I think they had created an episode that had a much more deeper quality to it and allowed me and Sid, and the rest of the cast to try to investigate a rather darker Ferengi story. I was very happy with it.

Question: Is anyone, in Next Gen, Voyager or Deep Space Nine going to write an autobiography?

Armin: I don't know of anybody right now whose contemplating that.

Question: You've played Quark for many many years. How much have you actually learned about the Ferengi? How much can you actually tell us about them.

Armin: I've learned they're deaf. The irony is that those Ferengi heads make you deaf. I can't hear anything at all. What have I learned about the Ferengi? I've learnt… it's been a wonderful journey I must say. As most of you know, I was an original Ferengi on Star Trek: The Next Generation. They have come a long way. They… I sort of screwed up in the first Ferengi episode and it's been a long sort of odyssey to come back to Ithaca. It's still trying to get back to Ithaca, and maybe we'll get there and maybe we won't. I've learnt that they're much more human than I ever thought at the beginning. They are, in my mind of course, the most human of characters, more human than Starfleet, because Starfleet is perfect. Ever see them going into a battle or on some mission where they're all going to die, and they're just, "Oh, yeah, now pass the paper, and whatever you do don't scuff my shoes." The Ferengi, I believe, have all human foibles. If we look close enough we'll see ourselves in those characters. Any other questions.

Question: What would you like to do? Is there a role you haven't played that you'd love to play?

Armin: This question was asked of Rene earlier today, and I'm going to take the same stand he did. There's a lot of roles that I would like to play, and the role that I'm playing now is the attractive one because I'm playing it now. I certainly assume that when all this is over that I will go back to the theatre where I feel the most comfortable and go back and try to essay some of the roles that I haven't had the chance to do yet. I certainly hope to do it with the three actors in the room. That would be Andy, Rene and Kitty, because that would be the most fun.

Question: If you could write an episode of DS9, what would it be about?

Armin: It would be called, The 34th Rule. That is how The 34th Rule came into being. Eric, where's Eric?"

[Various calls of "He left"]

Armin: Eric and David George and I, sat down for several weeks and tried to come up with some episodes to sell to Deep Space Nine. We came up with three ideas and we went and pitched it. They didn't buy it. We were a little bit distraught by that. And because I had already started work on The Merchant Prince novel, I suggested to both of them that we should novelize this idea. David liked the idea. Eric for reasons of his own decided not to stay aboard on that idea. So what episode would I like to see done? Read my novel or read David's novel. Actually I said it's David's novel, I must also say that it's Eric's novel as well, because the three of us came up with the original concept. Although I've been working with David on it for two years, we must give credit to Eric as well.

Question: What are the other two stories you pitched?

Armin: Now I really wish Eric was here. Deborah, do you remember? Deborah's gone too. Oh, they're newlyweds. I really don't remember. It was awhile back. Understand it was like two, two and a half years ago.

Question: I asked Kitty this earlier and she gave a pretty interesting answer.

Armin: Whatever she said is right.

Question: If you hadn't been an actor what would you have done instead. She said she'd be a politician. How about you?

Armin: I would have been either a CPA or a librarian. Probably a librarian.

Question: Re: A role he'd like to perform.

Armin: Is there a role that I would like to do? Well, everyone knows I'd like to do Richard III, and someday I will, probably. I've worked with both these actors, all three of these actors, on stage at one time or another. Andy and I did Richard II together. Rene and I did Petrified Forest together Kitty and I did Love's Labor Lost, so those were just some of things…

Question: This is [not] a serious question.

Armin: Then I'll give you a comic answer.

Question: [inaudible] Re: A scene in Profit and Lace.

Armin: Now that scene is a very problematic scene as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad you like it. The last scene is Quark has gone through all this thing. He's learned something about the female point of view, of being hit on of having to deal with the second-class citzeness of being a woman, an he comes into contact with a Dabo girl whose name I've just forgotten.

["Allura" someone provides.)

Armin: Allura. I knew this was the place to ask.

Andy: Always is.

Armin: And he tries to do the right thing. You know, I don't have a problem with it. Because he does try to do the right thing. He tries to learn from his experience and then the true Quark shows up and says, "What am I talking about?" So actually it is quite a nice scene now that I think about it. You're absolutely right. You were right and I was wrong.

Question: Quark was flying there for a moment.

Armin: Just for a moment. And then he crashed. There's something right about that. That's why I've changed my mind about it. Quark is Quark, and every time I try to make him out being a little bit more noble, it's not really right for Quark. You know, it's another character that should be noble. Quark is Quark, he's… he is. And you gotta respect that.

Question: Do you have any advice for would-be writers?

Armin: Oh, would-be-writers? Write. Yeah. Write. It's like would-be-actors. You have to act. Years ago I took a class with Lee Strasberg, who some of may know was the guru of the method theatre. And he said one thing during his lectures that I've never forgotten. He said, an actor, and I'm using the actors analogy for a writer, an actor must be like a clarinet player. He must play his instrument every day. And I would assume that being a writer the same thing was true, that if you want to write, you must write every day, and you get better at it, so that would be my advice. Then get a new agent.

Question: If you weren't cast as your character, what other character would you have liked to play on DS9?

Armin: I've been asked this before, and I have a comic answer and I have a serious answer. The comic answer I usually give is, if there's any other character that I'd like to play on the show who would that be? The answer would be Dax. But the serious answer was, the other character that I would like to play, because… Let me tell you who it is and then I'll tell you why. The other character I'd like to play is Rom, and the reason is I think the true Ferengi is a combination of what I do with Quark and what Max Grodenchik does with Rom. Since I only do half of the Ferengi psyche, it would be fascinating to try and do the other.

Question: And besides you get Leeta. [Laughter.]

Armin: I got too serious, I see.

Question: Did you like your Stargate episode?

Armin: I went up to Canada, Vancouver to do Stargate and it was fun, but it was in the rain. We were outside on location for seven days. It rained the entire time I was there. The agent said to me, "Oh, you're going to love this Armin, no make-up. No make-up." But they gave me this straw headdress that looked great the day I put it on. And then it rained. Anyone who sees that program, you'll see the headdress in different states of disarray. And you can see it getting wiltier and wiltier. We were sloshing around in mud, up to our knees in these gossamer costumes. I also think they hired me because… I think the casting director hired me because they'd heard I was short. And when I got there they went, "He's not short enough!" But I had a good time.

Question: What do you see as being the similarities between being an actor and being an accountant or a librarian?

Armin: I see no similarity. What draws me to it? The accountant part, I don't know. I've always been good with accounting. I'm very good at keeping track of things. The cast comes to me on many occasions, you know, how much for this? I would like being a CPA. I like working with numbers and things. It's kind of fun. Kitty will tell you I spend more time on Quicken then I do memorizing my lines. And it's as far as being a librarian, being in a good library is like being in the depths of a wonderful forest. There's just this sense of awe and hope and elation. So I think that being a librarian would be fun.

Question: Are there any Ferengi episodes coming up that you know of.

Armin: No, thank God. I say that not in jest. I do not like doing Ferengi episodes. It's too much work. We each get an episode where the brunt of the work is put on us and I… it's not that, I don't mind the work. I don't like the writing in Ferengi episodes, for reasons I've just told you. They're usually, you know… for instance Profit and Lace probably, you can ask Lolita about this, probably started out as just one single idea. He stage whispers "Let's put Quark into drag." Then sort of quickly built an episode around it. And that's my problem with Ferengi episodes is that they never really go anywhere, and they're sort of foolish and they ask me to do things that they never ask… that aren't as well thought out as perhaps they should be, indicative of which… I've been on that show for seven years, and I've enjoyed myself. It's been a great undertaking. I thank the gods that I'm aboard. But in seven years, Lolita can back me up on this, but it's enormously rare that I get changes in the script, once the original script comes out.

The lines written for Quark, pretty much never get changed. In my opinion, now she may correct me on this, my opinion is they don't care about the lines for Quark. Not that they don't care, but simply it's not as important as perhaps the other characters are. I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm just sort of bitching right now. It's simply that none of those were as well-thought out as some of the other episodes.[Addressing Rene's whose stood up.] Now you'll say to me that some of your episodes, yes, I know.

Rene: Well, no, I was just going to offer this. That I think perhaps, it's not that they don't care, Armin. The very reason that they always give you to new directors, they very reason that they don't seem to care is because they have total confidence that you'll make it work.

Andy: Absolutely.

Rene: They have to know that.

[Applause drones out the rest of his statement.]

Armin: I have to tell you, before we go any farther, that there have been many times during the course of seven years, when I have had traumatic emotional moments on the set, where I was ready to do all sorts of things, and my friend Rene has always been there for me to bounce off of, and he's always, always brought me down to earth and let me know… he's given me the straight truth most of the time. Not all the time. And when you see the loving relationship that occasionally rears it's head on Deep Space Nine between these two characters as opposed to those two characters. The hate was there originally in the script. The love comes from the relationship between the two actors.

Question: Re: The hug between Quark and Odo in Proft and Lace.

Armin: I got a laugh out of that too. He was so embarrassed. [To Rene] You didn't hear that did you. It's the scene in Profit and Lace where you have to hug me. Oh, we did not want to do that. Oh, we did not want to do that and I did not make it easy for him. But he did it.

[Some missed words as we put in a new tape. But Armin is discussing the difficulty of hearing with the Ferengi ears on again.]

Armin: If four or five people start talking it's gone. And in our trailer, it's interesting to watch. We all get made up in the same trailer. When it's just one or two actors and one or two make up artists, I can have a conversation. Rene goes to sleep so I'm not sure what...[laughter] But when it fills up with more than two actors and two make-up all of a sudden Armin doesn't talk anymore. Because he can't hear. It's like, the best analogy is, for those of you who watch Beauty and The Beast, (Many years ago I was involved with that program), but there was place where Vincent used to go on this catwalk. The sounds from all over the city would come into his ears. And some of it would be discernible and some of it wouldn't. That's exactly what happens when there are more than four people in the make-up trailer. They're just bits and pieces of conversation that fade in depending on where the wind is blowing. [In the background a baby has started to cry a little.] I know I went and upset him. [joking] Believe me, nobody ever helped me like that. [*Aaahs* from the crowd] Aaah, terrible yeah.

Question: Re: How he copes with being in make-up all day.

Armin:: When it gets hot I drink a lot of water. Jerry Bono, god bless, him is there for all of us and he strips the clothes off of us as quick as he can. That's important. Rene and I, when we did The Ascent which was up at an altitude of what eight thousand feet or so?

Rene: Nine.

Armin: Nine thousand. That was enormously difficult for me. Because of the altitude and in fact the first day of shooting I was really sure that I was going to pull the plug on them. Because that scene in the waterfall, I don't know how I got through that. That first scene of the day. I was [ready to sit?]. But I want you to understand that it's not just me. It's all of us who wear prosthetics and wear difficult costumes, which you'll never see on stage... you'll never see in the film. We are not only acting our hearts out behind make up, but we're also doing it in conditions that most actors, when you read about it in the magazines, would never put up with. It's our job. We deal with it because we deal with it. But it is a difficult sort of situation.

Question: If you had free reign on the show where you would you like to see Quark going? How would you like him to end up? Since this is the last season.

Armin: Before Terry left, I used to say Terry's bedroom. [laughter]. I don't know. I used to have some daydreams about that. I no longer have those, not because I've given them up, it's because the writers have let Quark go in a lot of different places and I'm grateful for that. I really can't picture what other things he can do. So I don't have an answer for that.

Question: Re: Will Quark get back some of the edge he had in the earlier seasons?

Armin: I would like that. The reason the edge couldn't work is that... as somebody said earlier, maybe Rene said it, or Andy said it. Andy said it.

Andy: It was me.

Armin: If Quark got to edgy and too [inaudible] it would make him look really stupid. If he's getting away with murder all the time why isn't Odo and Sisko and company, why aren't they stopping this guy. And the truth is... and the other couldn't happen either. There's no way that Quark could really ever out manuever them, because it is a show about Starfleet. It has always been a show about Starfleet, so if he wins one, even one, it denigrates the stature of Starfleet. So it's really a rather tightrope they have to walk of how to let me get away with some murder, but not enough to really go to jail for. So it's really tough act they put up there for themselves.

Question: In six and a half years, do you have a favorite show?

Armin: Gayle. Gayle's question is in six and a half years, do I have a favorite show. [long pause] Two of my favorite directors are sitting in the room. If I pick one over another...

Gayle: Think of the story.

Armin: I've always enjoyed Duet. I think Far Beyond The Stars is a wonderful episode. The type of Star Trek that I like best is what I think Star Trek was orignally created to do, which was to comment upon the twentieth century civilization by using twenty-fourth century metaphor. When we do that, when we get away from phasers and wars, unless the war's telling us something about the human condition. When we tell stories about the human condition then I think we've done our job. Ocassionally we do things that are entertaining, and that's a good thing too. But you have to both educate and entertain. The stories that deal with the human condition are my favorites.

Question: In what I've read about initial ideas about Ferengi they wanted them to be like Klingons and Romulans. More a warrior type race.

Armin: They were never warriors, but go ahead.

Question: But...

Armin: They were like hyenas.

Question: Right. And then they sort involved into more of a more of a... You think that maybe they didn't know where they were going and that's why where they started and where they ended up are part of the problem?

Armin: That's part of the problem. That has been a problem for awhile, but the original problem was that they were meant to be hyenas, and somehow they cast this actor named Armin Shimerman, and three other actors, and we made them into comic relief. And the footprints have been put in the wet cement, and so they couldn't really change that. So that is a problem. But that's what we have to work with. I remember doing the pilot. Oh, uh... the child is gone? You're all adults, right? I was told that when Roddenberry first concieved of the Ferengi they were sexual animals and very much in lust most of the time. So much so... this an apocryphal story, I don't know if it's true or not. So much so that Roddenberry considered that they might be tripodal. I was the first Ferengi cast. [The crowd cheers.] I have to slip that in every now and then. Where was I? Trying for the serious tone.

Andy: But Armin are you saying that you are responsible for the comic relief?

Armin: Yes, oh yes. Oh you mean serious. The truth is between my performance on Last Outpost and the Director as well, this concept of this hyena-like species that ate it's compeititors that were the most despicable of sentient beings was totally trashed, when myself and, really me more than anyone else, made this into a bad sort of chatakra [Sp?] version of Richard the Third. We made it into comic relief. Roddenberry had been sick during the shooting of that. When he saw... and at that time he was Executive Producer. It wasn't Rick then. When he saw it he was despondent. Because this was not anything he had... he had been in the hospital during the shooting of that episode. When he got well, and he got out and saw it, he was despondent. Then what happened is, as we all know when we recreate a species on the show they send you reels of what the previous guys who did your species did. So the next Ferengi, all they got was this bad performance to emulate and that's what they did. They emulated the bad performance. Not bad, just the wrong-headed performance. And that's what happened.

[inaudible]

Armin: Are you saying I'm to grandiose?

Andy: All I know is that they are very vested in the...

Armin: But understand where we're coming from, Andy. We're coming from Deep Space Nine that's been on for six, seven years. I'm suggesting that this species was created in the first season of TNG which is twelve years ago.

Question: I have a second question. I'm always looking for metaphors and similies in all Star Trek. I've been thinking about the wormhole and I've become more and more familiar with the internet. And the internet...

Armin: Which is the wormhole. [catching where he's going.]

Question: [To paraphrase the long commentary: Good stuff comes out of the internet, but it also represents a grave risk. Does Armin think that the internet is a metaphor for the internet?]

Armin: [shrugs] I don't have an answer for that. It's possible. It's very possible. I don't know. We'll have to sit down and have this discussion and just hash it out. Maybe find the... discuss that. But I don't have an answer for that now.

Question: What's your favorite book?

Armin: My favorite book? I'm going to give you a serious answer. You're not going to believe me. It's Sister Mary And Joseph's Rules of Rhetoric for Elizabethan Literature

[There is a long pause.] Armin: I told you I would have been a geat accountant.

Question: Re: Has he been to Folgers Library.

Armin: No, it is a great disappointment of mine that I have not been to the Folgers Library. Hopefully someday, not only go to the library, but get a chance to either be in the audience or perform.

Rene: How long does it take to put your make-up on?

Armin: [joking] It depends on if Auberjonois is talking or not.

Rene: Sleeping, that's sleeping!

Armin: Yeah, he has it made in the shade. [To Andy] Who does your make-up?

Andy: Everybody does.

Armin: That's why I don't have a clear picture. But Rene has Dean. Dean talks a little like [inaudible].

Andy: With a North Carolina accent.

Armin: "Yes, sir," or "Yes Ma'am". And he lets Rene sleep. For the most part he's gone, because Rene doesn't say anything. As opposed to my make-up lady, Karen Westerfield. God Bless her, she's a genius. She deserves all the Emmys she got, but she could shut up every once in a while.[laughter] I know more about this woman than I ever wanted to. I do. I know more about Karen than I do about Kitty. But God Bless Dean. Dean lets Rene snooze in the chair, and we have early morning calls and it's nice to get... because what can you do? You just sit there; you're just a canvas. That's all you are. You're a canvas for them to do their wonderful work on. And Dean just does it quietly, and he's been doing it for how long?

Andy: Been doing it for six years, seven years.

Rene: Yeah, that's when he started.

Armin: Yeah, after Craig in the fourth season?

Rene: In the first season.

Armin: Yeah, in the first. Wasn't Craig there for the first season?

Rene: For most of the first season Craig did it, and then Dean took over for the last third of the season.

Armin: And Dean took over and did it. Now Dean is very quiet when he's working. And he's very attentive to Rene's make-up or anybody elses make-up that he does. The moment the actor leaves the trailer, or even before the actor leaves, Dean is on the phone wheeling and dealing. Dean is the Quark of the make-up trailer. He has got four film projects that he is a producer of.

Rene: He produces toys and masks.

Andy: Haunted Houses.

Armin: Yeah, haunted houses. This man...

Audience Member: He does the best Elvis imitation.

Armin: He does that. He's in a band. The man is very quiet when he's working and the moment he's finished working... In fact you've got to stand in line to use the phone behind Dean. But he does great work and he's very quiet.

[A staff member quietly suggests that they have to move on to the auction now.]

Armin: Auction sure. How much am I bid for this tie.

Audience Member: Twenty-five.

[End of Q and A]

The Auction

We really intended to behave ourselves, thinking only that we might bid on the tribble. First we couldn't resist the three autographed, B&W, Voyager photos, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ and Robert Duncan McNeil. We didn't even try for the two items Rene brought though they were tempting. One was a baseball used in Take Me Out To The Holosuite, signed by Avery Brooks. Rene told the story of how he had acquired it. As the Umpire in that episode Rene had carried around a bag of balls as part of the costume. One of these found it's way into his personal possession. Hoping to increase its worth for this charitable event he wanted to have Avery Brooks' signature on it. So he approached him and enthusiastically discussed baseball, one of Avery's favorite subjects, (though not Rene's) with him. Having softened him up, Rene then requested the signature, which, laughing, Avery granted. We passed on this, which went up to a few hundred.

The other item Rene presented was his personal T-shirt, presented to him at the end of the fourth season. [He said everyone got one, but Armin claimed he had not.] It said on the front, "I'm a Changeling and Nobody Knows it." white lettering on black. He proceeded to auction it off and strip off the T-shirt.

Andy had brought his Cardassian headpiece from Tears of the Prophets, and our resolve went down the tubes. It was up to almost two hundred before we stopped bidding. But the next item offered was Andy's personal Voyager script for the episode Waking Moments, on which he'd acted as apprentice director, which included his personal notes, etc.. Resolve, what's resolve? We got it for eighty. A few more items were auctioned, though we couldn't tell you what, as we were too busy savoring our acquisition.

Dinner over, most people wandered up to the Hospitality Suite to watch Shadows and Symbols, but as we had not yet seen Image in the Sand and didn't want to watch them out of order, we retired for the evening.

Day Two includes:

• Writer's Workshop [Lolita Fatjo and Eric Stillwell]
• Lunch (w/Sid and Andy)
• Auction and Raffle
• Andrew J. Robinson Q and A
• Andy Robinson & Alexander Siddig Q and A
• Alexander Siddig Q and A
• Autograph Session
• Day Two Photo Gallery

Number of people who shouldn't try this at home:

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