BLACK | BLUE | RED | GREEN | OTHER |
my words | SCRIPTURE, or Scriptural perspective | WT view / quotes / info | PERSONALITY concept | EMPHASIS |
WT Point "F" ~ Personification |
"Personification
does not prove personality - It is true that Jesus spoke of the
holy spirit as a 'helper' & spoke of such helper as
'teaching,' 'bearing witness,' 'giving evidence,' 'guiding,'
'speaking,' 'hearing,' & 'receiving.' In so doing,
the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the personal
pronoun 'he' to that 'helper' (paraclete). (Compare John 14:16,
17, 26; 15:26; 16:7-15.)
However, it is
not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personalized or
personified
that is not actually a person."
[Insight p.1019, & Aid
p.1543]
It's true that the
Hebrew & Greek Scriptures
occasionally personify things (e.g. wisdom,
sin, & death). A Figure of Speech (Hyperbole; Irony;
Metaphor; Metonymy; Personification; Simile) |
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WT list of Scripture personification = Prov.1:20-33; 8:1-36; Mt.11:19; Lk.7:35; Rom.5:14, 17, 21; 6:12, 7:8-11. THAT'S IT!?!?! Compare the WT LIST to the LISTS in LINK D1, E1, E2, F1, & F2 at the end of this page. Note the quantity & the CONTEXT ! |
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Ref. | Personification | Scripture |
Pr.1:20-30 | Wisdom | TRUE WISDOM itself keeps CRYING aloud in the very street. In the public squares IT keeps giving forth ITS VOICE. At the upper end of the noisy streets IT CALLS OUT. At the entrances of the gates into the city IT SAYS ITS OWN SAYING: "How long... will you stupid ones keep hating knowledge? Turn back at MY REPROVE. Then to you I WILL CAUSE MY SPIRIT to BUBBLE FORTH; I WILL MAKE MY WORDS known to you. Because I HAVE CALLED OUT but you keep refusing. I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HAND but there is no one paying attention. & you keep neglecting ALL MY COUNSEL, & MY REPROVE you have not accepted, I also for MY PART, SHALL LAUGH at your own disaster, I SHALL MOCK when what you dread comes just like a storm.... At that time they will keep CALLING ME, but I SHALL NOT ANSWER; & they will keep looking for ME, but they will not find ME, for the reason that they hated knowledge, & the fear of Jehovah they did not choose. They did not consent to MY COUNSEL; they disrespected all MY REPROOF. |
Pr.8:1 | Wisdom & Discernment | Does not WISDOM keep CALLING OUT, & DISCERNMENT keep giving forth ITS VOICE? (See the rest of Proverbs 8 for more personification of Wisdom.) |
WISDOM is also PERSONIFIED at Matthew 11:19 & Luke 7:35, & is there depicted as having both 'works' & 'children'. [Aid p.1543] | ||
Mt.11:19 | Wisdom | All the same, WISDOM is proved righteous by all ITS WORKS. |
Lk.7:35 | Wisdom | All the same, WISDOM is proved righteous by all ITS CHILDREN. |
The
apostle Paul PERSONALIZED SIN & DEATH & also
UNDESERVED KINDNESS as 'KINGS' (Rom. 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12). [Aid p.1543] |
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Rom.5:14 | Death | Nevertheless, DEATH RULED as KING from Adam down to Moses... |
Rom.5:17 | Death | For if by the trespass of the one [man] DEATH RULED as KING through that one, much more will THOSE WHO RECEIVE the abundance of the undeserved kindness & of the free gift of righteousness RULE as KINGS in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ. |
Rom.5:21 | Sin & Undeserved Kindness | That just as SIN RULED as KING with DEATH, likewise also UNDESERVED KINDNESS might RULE as KING through righteousness with everlasting life in view through Jesus Christ our Lord. |
Rom.6:12-14 | Sin | Therefore do not let SIN continue to RULE as KING in your mortal bodies that you should obey their desires. Neither go on presenting your members TO SIN as weapons of unrighteousness. For SIN must not be MASTER OVER YOU... |
He
speaks of sin as 'receiving an inducement,' 'working out
covetousness,' 'seducing,' & 'killing.' (Rom. 7:8-11) Yet it is OBVIOUS that Paul did not mean that SIN was ACTUALLY a PERSON. [Aid p.1543] |
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Rom.7:8-11 | Sin | But SIN, RECEIVING AN INDUCEMENT through the commandment, WORKED out in me covetousness of every sort, for apart from the law SIN WAS DEAD. In fact, I was once alive apart from law; but when the commandment arrived, SIN CAME TO LIFE again, but I died. For SIN, RECEIVING AN INDUCEMENT through the commandment, SEDUCED ME & KILLED ME through it. |
Suppose
that wisdom,
discernment, sin, death, & undeserved kindness are actual BEINGS. Jesus actually is The Wisdom
of God (1Cor.1:24,30). No offence to spirit beings intended, On the other hand, there are AWESOME
WARNINGS of ETERNAL REPERCUSSIONS if you
speak against THE
HOLY SPIRIT !!! |
An H2O post (226102), listed 56 entries where the city of "Jerusalem" is personified. The person who posted the above information (sarcastically) concluded: "OBVIOUSLY, Jerusalem is not a mere city, SHE is a person, a woman, a prostitute." -- The H2O poster was offering these references as "proof" that references to The Holy Spirit are ALSO just due to personification.
Jerusalem can be talked to (e.g. Ps.122:2; 137:5; Is.36:7; Is.40:2; et.al.).
Jerusalem can praise God (Ps.147:12).
Jerusalem had daughters (Song of Solomon).
Jerusalem is often referred to in pronoun (SHE).
Jerusalem has a mighty voice (Is.40:9).
Jerusalem could stand up & can drink (Is.51:17).
Jerusalem could be guided (Is.51:18).
Jerusalem has borne & brought up many children (Is.51:18).
Jerusalem could be taken by the hand (Is.51:18).
Jerusalem could grieve & be comforted (Is.51:19).
Jerusalem's children would faint & have wrath (Is.51:20).
Jerusalem wore beautiful garments (Is.52:1).
Jerusalem had a neck (Is.52:2).
Jerusalem had ears & can hear (Jer.2:2).
Jerusalem was deceived (Jer.2:10).
Jerusalem had a heart (Jer.4:14).
Jerusalem was warned (Jer.6:8).
Jerusalem had pride (Jer.13:9).
Jerusalem cried out (Jer.14:2).
Jerusalem wanted pity (Jer.15:5).
Jerusalem gave counsel (or made plans) (Jer.19:7).
Jerusalem lived [dwelt] (Jer.33:16).
Jerusalem was punished (Jer.44:13).
Jerusalem had blood (Jer.51:35).
Jerusalem remembered "precious things" (Lam.1:7).
Jerusalem sinned (Lam.1:8).
Jerusalem was naked (Lam.1:8).
Jerusalem groaned (Lam.1:8).
Jerusalem wore skirts (Lam.1:9).
Jerusalem did not consider her future (Lam.1:9).
Jerusalem could see (Lam.1:10).
Jerusalem suffered pain, had bones, feet, neck, had been a virgin, wept, had eyes, a soul, hands, children, lovers, was distressed, had a spirit & a heart (Lam.1:12-22).
Jerusalem had a mind & could reason (Ezk.16:2).
Jerusalem was Oholibah, the sister of Oholah the elder (Ezk.23:3,4).
Jerusalem had breasts (Ezk.23:4).
Jerusalem was a harlot who lusted & sent messengers to seek her lovers in Babylon (Ezk.23:11).
Jerusalem had a bed for making love (Ezk.23:17).
Jerusalem was disgusted (Ezk.23:17).
Jerusalem remembered the days of her youth in Egypt (Ezk.23:19).
Jerusalem had nose & ears (Ezk.23:25).
Jerusalem wore jewelry (Ezk.23:26).
Jerusalem hated (Ezk.23:28).
Jerusalem walked the way of her sister (Ezk.23:32).
Jerusalem drank, would get drunk, & feel sorrow (Ezk.23:33).
Jerusalem slaughtered her own children (Ezk.23:39).
Jerusalem bathed & wore makeup (Ezk.23:40).
Jerusalem sat on a luxurious couch & set incense & oil on a table to tempt lovers (Ezk.23:41).
Jerusalem wore bracelets & a crown (Ezk.23:42).
Jerusalem's children were slain & their houses burned (Ezk.23:47).
Jerusalem was prophesied to become holy [i.e., Holy Jerusalem] (Joel 3:17).
Jerusalem's daughter will have a kingdom (Micah 4:8).
Jerusalem's daughter will shout (Zech.9:9).
Jerusalem went out to Jesus (Mt.3:5).
Jerusalem killed prophets & stoned others (Mt.23:37).
Jerusalem lived in a house (Mt.23:38, Lk.13:34).
Jerusalem's daughters wept (Lk.23:28).
Because the above was offered "seriously", I responded to the post as follows:
I apologize for not dropping in sooner to comment on your post 226102.
YOU WROTE:
With reference to this post about the personage of the
Holy Spirit, it
seems fair to consider the characteristics that personify
Jerusalem as well.
YOU'RE KIDDING
It is absolutely incredulous that you would seriously propose
that the personification of "JERUSALEM" somehow
justifies dismissing the Scriptural evidence showing the
personality of "THE SPIRIT THE HOLY ONE"!
YOUR OPENING
So, is Jerusalem a city or
a personality[?]. The Bible shows that Jerusalem has the
attributes of a person. -- [So, Big Deal.]
YOUR PROOF
"Jerusalem" ... followed by 56 entries (to somehow try
to counter & neutralize the quantity of awesome Scriptures
that Mark Weise compiled, & were reposted by Lynn).
YOUR ENDING
From the foregoing we can
see, OBVIOUSLY, Jerusalem is not a mere city, SHE is a person, a
woman, a prostitute. [Your sarcastic
conclusion is even below what I'd expect from "You
Know" -- more on par of "Fred Hall".]
YOUR APPLES & ORANGES
We know that the Word of
God distinguishes between the soul & spirit, & the thoughts
& intents of the heart (Heb. 4:12). But here we
have a case where a human cannot distinguish between THE AWESOME SPIRIT OF TRUTH
HIMSELF, & a city -- JERUSALEM
-- a NAME -- that God uses, to speak to (& about) His
people!
YOU'RE A FEW OBSERVATIONS SHORT OF A
VALID CONCLUSION
1. The written Word of God introduces readers to the NAME of
The Father, & The Son, & THE HOLY SPIRIT (Mt. 28:19) [Click here for much more
evidence.]
2. [Click here to see that] The Author of Scripture (i.e. The Holy Spirit Himself) only personified concepts that had ZERO IMPLICATIONS even if thought of as actual "persons". Suppose that Jerusalem, wisdom, discernment, sin, death, & undeserved kindness are actual BEINGS. No offence to spirit beings intended, but SO WHAT if there is an angel or spirit of sin, & death, & discernment, & kindness??? On the other hand, there are AWESOME WARNINGS of ETERNAL REPERCUSSIONS if you believe THE HOLY SPIRIT is a FORCE !!!
3. Jesus Himself spoke of THE SPIRIT THE TRUTH as the paraclete Helper/Advocate/Counselor. [Click here.]
YOUR PERIL
NO ONE is in any danger if they concluded that
"JERUSALEM" is a woman. [But you went beyond that to
speak against THE SPIRIT THE HOLY ONE.] Be assured that EVERYONE
is in danger if they speak against & write off THE SPIRIT THE
HOLY ONE. [Click here
for WARNINGS directly from God's Word.
YOUR CHOICE
I totally respect that it's your life. It's your choice. So I
post this for H2O readers.
All the best. / etalk99
RESEARCH about: " THE > SPIRIT -- THE > HOLY (ONE) " | |||||
Is "The Holy Spirit" a
FORCE, or a
Sentient BEING
-- or BOTH ?
The
Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society's
view on "The Holy Spirit" "
The Scriptures
themselves unite to show that WOW !!! ~ IF The Holy Spirit is just a force,
then I (& any truth-seeker) |
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I don't view my work as a THEOLOGICAL
DEBATE. There's no prize for the winner. This research is to help JWs think about their eternal destiny -- it's about you & God, not about me. If WT teaching is wrong, you are picking a fight with the most AWESOME BEING in the universe! The Holy Spirit has emotion (intellect & will) & can be INSULTED & OUTRAGED !!! Heb.10:26-31 warns: For if we practice sin willfully {or stubbornly, or mindlessly, or blindly, or foolishly} after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment & [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God & who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, & who has OUTRAGED THE SPIRIT of undeserved kindness with contempt? 30 For we know him that said: "Vengeance is mine; I will recompense"; & again: "Jehovah will judge his people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of [the] living God. |
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According to WT
opinion: |
According to Scripture: (Greek allos = another of the same kind -- not different-kind-heteros). |
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Therefore:
In other words, The Trinity is
alive & well. |
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Because of deliberate, consistent, repeated,
systematic emphasis, programming & reinforcement (a.k.a. re-education, conditioning, mind control, thought reform, brain washing), JWs automatically equate & substitute the Bible expression "The Holy Spirit" with the WT's phrase "Active Force", even though the "Active Force" phrase is a MISTRANSLATION & found only ONCE in their own Bible!!! See the NWT at Gen.1:2.
Click here
for more detail, & the
WT's 28 Meanings /
Senses / Interpretation-opinions for "ruach"
& "pneuma" ( spirit
). The Awesome PERSON &
the awesome POWER of The Holy Spirit
(throughout Scripture) The GIVER & the
GIFT -- in Acts 2:4 for example: |
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WT Basis for "FORCE" Concept |
My Response |
Scripture Basis for "PERSON" Concept |
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A | Absent Greek Definite Article 'the' | Fact, BUT... | A1 | Comparison Chart: - DEMON pneuma (spirit) | |
A2 | Demon-Pneuma-Spirits are Sentient Beings | ||||
A3 | ABSENT Greek 'the' = Awesome POWER | ||||
A4 | PRESENT Greek 'the' = Awesome PERSON | ||||
B | Pneuma = Neuter Gender noun | Fact, BUT... | B1 | Greek Nouns & Pronouns prove Awesome Person | |
C | holy spirit Associated with Impersonal Things | Fact, BUT... | C1 | EMOTION = Personality | |
C2 | INTELLECT = Personality | ||||
C3 | WILL = Personality | ||||
D | The Holy Spirit has NO Personal Voice | F A L S E | D1 | SPEAKS DIRECTLY & via Humans & Scripture | |
E | The Holy Spirit has NO Personal Name |
Unknown, but so what? |
E1 | Names / Titles of The Holy Spirit | |
E2 | Testimony of Jesus (GOD-THE-WORD) | ||||
F | A 'Person' only because of Personification |
WT's FAULTY conclusion CONTRADICTS a host of "inconvenient" Scriptures |
F1 | Testimony of the Whole NT | |
F2 | Comparison Chart: - PARACLETE (Advocate) | ||||
F3 | Awesome Scriptural Warnings | ||||
F4 | Greek Facts / Scholarship | ||||
F5 | Does the WT Misquote Scholars ? | ||||
F6 | Convincing Evidence (& "Michael") | ||||
Click here for
Kingdom Interlinear
~ Definite Article chart to see
the various spellings of the neuter gender "the".
Click here to
Search a
Greek Interlinear NT
Click here to
Search a Greek NT. ~ Enter "pneuma"
beside "Search" & click "GO" (top right). |
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Chart
of interesting LINKS & other RESEARCH © 1999 - 2009 ~ All rights reserved. But non-commercial use is OK with me ~ etalk99@hotmail.com Email me if you feel I've made
any errors, or misrepresented Watchtower theology in any way. |