trb

Eventually Kamal stopped posting at Beliefnet, and the only place I could find to post, where she was posting, was on the talk.religion.baha'i list, so I started posting there sometimes.

Ilm

There I saw Ilm for the first time, contending with Talisman liberals. I had heard of him before, from Talisman liberals who wrote about him as a former ally who had changed sides and turned against them. Again, I was appalled at what I saw him and a few other people doing in the name of defending the Faith, and again I tried to practice and promote what the writings say about that. I've been far too contentious with him sometimes, but we've had some friendly discussions now and then, mostly revolving around my concerns about what he does on trb, and his concerns about what I do on trb. Here's an example:

Me: I don't see anything wrong with exploring ideas that seem contrary to views of the Universal House of Justice.

Ilm: Does exploring include promoting? Do you accept the authority of the Will and Testament which speaks of both the Universal House of Justice in these terms?

"To none is given the right to put forth his own opinion or express his particular conviction. All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of the Cause and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto whatsoever else is indeed in grievous error."

Me: I did some research into the possibility of bringing the exclusion of women from the Universal House of Justice, before the UN or some other international institution supported by the Baha'i Community.

The UN doesn't look like a possibility to me, so I'm exploring other possibilities, like one of the associations for the advancement of women, or international conferences of religious leaders.

Ilm: And how do you reconcile such actions with the Will and Testament? Or do you?

The Gang of Four

Once a Baha'i told me that Nur was a follower of Covenant breakers. Because of that person's connections with Counselors and the House of Justice, someone close to me who was with me at the time chided me for not believing it. I wrote to the secretariat at the Baha'i World Center and to my National Spiritual Assembly, to ask if any Baha'i institution had issued any statement about Nur. I also asked about Kamal, Asma and Izzat. The reply from the World Center eventually found its way to trb. After that some people started calling those four people "the Gang of Four."

Qudrat

Some time later, Qudrat started posting. Qudrat was the first person in the Talisman chronicles to be removed from the membership by a decision of the House of Justice, and I had always wanted to meet her. We got along very well. Here are some extracts from her posts to me:

Baha'u'llah, as I understand him, tried very hard to teach not just that he had come with a different religion (really he said there is one spirituality in awesomely beautiful diversity) but that he was presenting a different, mature and harmonious methodology of avoiding contention. Various views understandably exist. There are respectful, polite and understanding ways to reach consensus, to achieve agreement and to live very happily in a world where a great many various understandings exist together.

For now, in my opinion, it's very beneficial to attempt an all-embracing viewpoint, to seek to resonate a bit with each person so very concerned about the importance of Baha'i principles (or the leadership). It may help to elevate the conversation within Baha'i above stereotypical confrontational paradigms. Baha'u'llah, as I understand him, was very concerned to broaden human outlook, to encourage sensitivity to the understandings of other and to enhance the capacity of all to get along by means of stepping above such confrontation, seeing validity in various viewpoints and trying to achieve win-win outcomes.

And, yes, I think maybe there's a lot of people around who still care quite a bit, and maybe there can be some significant effort made to get things back together again, because, as the song says, it was pretty good, and, it can be again.

Next: Spirit of the movement

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