The MOUT Homepage

Comments - Requests For Information (RFI) Site

RFI from Dr. Paul Deason of White Sands, New Mexico:

I am studying conflict in urban environments. The purpose is to examine the utility of smart sensor systems, communication systems and indirect fire weapon systems in such an environment. Preceeding this is investigation into defining what "success" looks like in an asymmetric urban context, what measures of effectiveness might be appropriate, and how best to represent this in constructive simulation, or in an HLA live-virtual experimental mix. There also is a need to determine what the vulnerability of urban structures is, and how best to represent them as a modifiable object in simulation, and where the data might reside. If any have ideas to share, or points of contact, I'd be grateful. Especially as the concept is broadened from small group direct fire confrontations.

RFI from Adam Carter:

I am a university student studying for a degree in Computer Science. I have a requirement to make a presentation and have chosen computer assisted wargames as the subject. I have used the MOUT Homepage as a reference and would appreciate any additional information and/or insights on this topic. Thanks in Advance.

Adam Carter

RFI and comments from Sergeant Marcos De Oliveira, of the Brazillian Army:

Hello - my name is Marcos. I am a sergeant in the Brazilian Army and assigned to a combat engineer battalion, my rank is similiar to staff sergeant in the US Armed Forces. I find this page very informative - containing much information on urban warfare, keep up the good work and thanks for the information I get. I am looking for books or videos covering the USAF security forces and elite units like the PJ's and combat control teams - if you know of any please send me an e-mail - thanks in advance.

RFI and comments from TSGT Brian Scannon, USAF - Security Forces Squadron:

Exceptional page - a one stop shopping spot for MOUT - to include counter-terrorism issues and information. Anyone with any Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection (AT/FP) information that they would like to share, please contact me. I have a lot of information to offer as a return in kind. Great work!

A member of the Territorial Army, Edinburgh, Scotland, comments in reference to Belfast Lessons Learned (MOUT):

On the marksmanship training, the 1970s saw a great deal more interest in developing skills that fitted the tactical scenario. No longer were we training to shoot Russians from our trenches as they rolled west across Europe......so there was lots more firing at short exposures, from the standing and kneeling position, at closer ranges.

Similarly, lots more effort was put into constructing ranges that would present (shoot / don't shoot / shoot, but don't hit bystanders) types of ranges. Having used some of them, they are quite a good training tool. (Including the "where are you being shot at from" range, which is quite challenging when they vary high velocity and low velocity rounds, towards, away, and across your position.)

As I understand it, the average situation was found to be a 3-second exposure of a head-and-shoulders target, engaged from the standing position, at about 100 metres. (The unkind also added "and only seen by the worst shot in the patrol")

As for MOUT (what we now call OBUA - Operations in Built-Up Areas) the combat shooting competitions now include an OBUA match; you fire at head, and then face-sized targets at 100m down to 25m. Needless to say, it's multiple shots at short exposures (at 25m, for instance, it's a 6-inch circle, with three, 3-second exposures to fire your ten rounds to count, from the standing position).

I'm in the Territorial Army; roughly equivalent to the Army NG; and I'm in the infantry. We've just finished the OBUA phase of our training cycle, which finished with a battalion exercise at the facility at Copehill Down, on Salisbury Plain. A learning experience all round........

A standing RFI from the MOUT Homepage:

1. Any and all unclassified MOUT/FIBUA and MOOTW lessons learned, personal insights and tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs).
2. Assessments and first hand accounts of urban battles and operations with special attention to Grozny (and other Chechen urban areas), Mogadishu (and other Somalian urban areas), Beirut, Tyre, Suez City, and Hue City - though any and all urban and MOOTW accounts are always welcomed.
3. Commonwealth and Ally insights on operations within and around urban areas.
4. MOUT/FIBUA training issues.
5. MOUT/FIBUA doctrine issues.
6. MOUT/FIBUA Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB) issues and TTPs.

Again, unclassified - non-sensitive submissions are always welcomed and will be posted to the page.

Semper Fi,

Dave Dilegge
Stafford, Virginia - USA

RFI from Mike Ivey:

I am working on R3, an offshoot of the MOUT ACTD that is currently underway at the McKenna MOUT Site at Ft. Benning. I work closely with Dr. Gene Dutiot and am interested in any information about movement through space and time - in capturing (X,Y,Z) coordinates for movement through complex buildings and floors.

Thanks in advance,

Mike Ivey

RFI from Cadet Sean McCafferty:

I am a senior at the United States Military Academy. I am majoring in Military History and Military Science, and I am doing my senior thesis on MOUT. I'm pretty sure my thesis is going to be that the US Army needs to disseminate the lessons that can be learned from the Battle for Grozny and the Battle of Mogadishu. I think that both of these operations have a lot of potential, and they both bring up the same sort of lessons. I have done quite a bit of research already, but I am always looking for more information. If you know somewhere I can find out more about either Grozny, Mogadishu, or future US Army MOUT Doctrine, please contact me.

In advance - thank you very much,

CDT Sean McCafferty

RFI from Dr. Thomas M. Cook:

Research interests in MOOTW, MOUT, Urban Warfare, Visualization, and Complex Adaptive Systems.

RFI from GySgt Craig Chaplick, USMC:

I am the training chief at the Inspector - Instructor staff in Salt Lake City (Marine rifle company). I am in search of the updated MPS's/ITS's for MOUT, also METL's - please help!!! I have been looking all over trying to find a pub with MOUT MPS/ITS - but no luck. Thanks in advance for the help.

S/F

GySgt Craig W. Chaplick

FAX 801-583-7319
Coml 801-583-7318
Inspector-Instructor
Attn: GySgt Chaplick
116 Pollock Rd
Salt Lake City, UT 84113

RFI from Kelvin Yip:

I'm an infantry section commander in the Australian Army and am requesting information on clearing stairwells. I've downloaded the SPMAGTF(X) MOUT training program and found the explanation and lack of diagrams hard to understand. Any suggestions out there?

Kelvin Yip

RFI from Captain Carl Worthington:

I am a Mobile Subscriber Equipment (MSE) company commander assigned to XVIII Airborne Corps. I am very interested in training my soldiers on the proper TTP of setting up and operating in a MOUT environment. The only problem is, is that I have found little to no literature or doctrine about this topic. Is there anyone who has experienced setting up in a MOUT environment as opposed to the "woods?"

Thank you very much for the help.

Carl Worthington
Captain, US Army Signal Corps

RFI from Terje Bruoeygard:

I am a Norwegian Cavalry Officer and have served two years in an assault squadon, one year in a tank squadron and three years with our Army school. First of all, I really enjoy this site and consider it a great resource in my officer development. I believe our future operations will take place in built-up areas. My request is for information concerning the use of mechanised and armored vehicles (MBT's, IFV's) in urban terrain. Of particular importance are the strategies, lessons learned and your thoughts on future warfare.

Terje Bruoeygard

RFI from Staff Sergeant Robert Parsons, USMC:

The SPMAGTF(X) POI is outstanding and very informative. I am requesting the reference publication(s) for the checkpoint operations period of instruction. The lesson plan cites MCWP 3-35.3. There is mention of checkpoints throughout this pub, but nothing that addresses the information in the POI lesson. We are currently teaching checkpoint operations here at ITB (east). The MCWP 3-35.3 does not have enough information to put together a lesson plan. As I am teaching checkpoint operations using the POI, any information that you could provide would be very much appreciated.

SSgt Parsons

MOUT Lessons Learned Bullets from JTF Noble Anvil (Kosovo - FRY ops):

A Glimpse at Urban Warfare:

- Not yet the "Three Block War"...but not the Iraqi desert either.
- Future campaigns will have more target areas like Belgrade than Basra.
- Ups the political constraints by an order of magnitude
- Allows adversaries to utilize CNN to their best advantage...yields informational "interior lines."
- Impacts across the spectrum of capabilities: ISR, targeting, munitions, IO, collateral damage, world opinion, coalitions, etc.

We were lucky..but luck is not a principle of war for the next commander

MOUT Homepage Guestbook Request from Michael Bauer, President of Tiger Stripe Products Inc.:

We are currently developing "urban" colors for our copyrighted camouflage pattern. This is most certainly not the "fashion" urban camouflage on the current commercial market. It will not contain the stark black, white and grey combinations. We would be interested in showing our test samples to interested persons within the MOUT Facility community for evaluation. Please contact us via email at tigers99@idt.net.

Michael Bauer

RFI from Terry Burks: (Fort Knox)

Requesting any and all information on the 1973 Battle for Suez City. Thanks in advance, your contributions will be greatly appreciated and used in analyzing MOUT armor/mech operations to support U.S. Army MOUT training.

Terry Brooks

Comments and RFI from LTC Larry Altersitz:

Dave: Has consideration been given to using weapons that fire Glaser Safety Slugs? This would seem to be one way to avoid collateral damage/overpenetration by rifle bullets. Glasers come in many pistol calibers, so 9mm submachineguns (H&K MP-5, Uzi, e.g.) or .45 cal (WWII grease gun, Thompson, Ingram, e.g.) could be used by team members for clearing structures and places. Other pistol rounds have three projectiles, which also might fit the needs of a force.

For larger caliber weapons (20mm to 120mm) , I'd think about using time-fuzed flechette rounds, which would keep hostiles away from openings while ground forces maneuver closer to the objective. 105mm howitzers have such a round and 105mm tanks had an anti-personnel round, also.

What info do you have on the use of obscurants during MOUT? If the hostiles can't see you, they have to be less effective.

One more thing: after a structure is cleared, how do you monitor it to prevent hostiles from slipping in and re-using it as a strongpoint?

Larry Altersitz

RFI from Major Brad Gericke:

I and LTC(P) John Antal (US Army) are currently editing an anthology concerning urban warfare since 1940 that we intend to publish in the spring. The thrust of our effort is to find authors who are professional Soldiers and Marines who have troop and field experience and who are willing to write an historically accurate, well-researched argumentative paper. We hope to breathe life into the idea that the US Army’s main mission is to train units that are excellent combined arms fighters.

We are finalizing our list of authors -- if you know of any other authors who might like to participate I would like to hear from them. In particular, Budapest 1956, Suez City 1973, and perhaps something from Bosnia/Kosovo would be particularly welcome.

Thanks!

Maj. Brad Gericke
Armor, US Army

RFI from LCDR Charles J. Gbur (author of the BASS MOUT Marine Corps Gazette article):

I am collecting information relating to types of casualty's which can be expected in MOUT. Any information or comments would be appreciated. My primary interests is force protection policy development and Battalion Aid Station (BAS) operations in MOUT. S/F CJG

RFI from Captain Lawrence C. Coleman USMC concerning the use of artillery in the conduct of MOUT:

One big question we are trying to answer here is concerning the difference between what the ground (infantry and armor primarily) commanders think (or are taught) about artillery capabilities and limitations during MOUT and what artillery can bring to the urban battlefield.

I would appreciate any information, points of contact and other help you could provide. This seems to be a pretty hot issue. Again, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Visitor since 23 February 1998

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