Then get off the forum, you hate-filled liar.

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THOUSANDS of abortions may cause pain to the unborn child, say doctors
preparing to debate the contentious issue of "foetal awareness".

Prof Vivette Glover, of London, is calling for all terminations between 17 and
24 weeks to be performed under anaesthetic. Although 90 per cent of
terminations take place before 13 weeks, when most medical opinion agrees
that a foetus cannot feel pain, concern has resurfaced about those carried out
during the next 11 weeks. At present, some abortions during the period of 13
to 24 weeks are carried out without anaesthesia.

Prof Glover, of Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea Hospital, who is to chair a
conference on the issue at the Royal Institution in November, said yesterday
that many questions remained about when the foetus became sentient. She
said: "It is incredibly unlikely that the foetus could feel anything before 13
weeks because there is no linking to the brain at all. After 26 weeks it is quite
probable.

"But between 17 and 26 it is increasingly possible that it starts to feel
something and that abortions done in that period ought to use anaesthesia."
Prof Glover acknowledged that by raising the matter she could be providing
ammunition for anti-abortionists. She said: "I am pro-choice, but one should
not muddle the two. One should think about how one is doing it in the most
pain-free way."

According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21
weeks and some doctors believe that distress can be felt as early as 13 weeks.
Others question whether the foetus can feel pain before 26 weeks. Under
present law, abortion can be carried out only until the 24th week of pregnancy
unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as a threat to the life of the
mother.

A study by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists said that it
was not easy to define or evaluate foetal awareness, in particular awareness of
pain. It concluded that the foetus was not "aware" before 26 weeks.

Dr Gillian Penney, of the Aberdeen Maternity Hospital and chairman of the
Royal College's induced abortion guideline group, said: "The foetus would not
be capable of experiencing what we would perceive as pain." The evidence
that underpinned the Royal College's conclusion focused on nerve connections
between two crucial areas of the developing brain, the cortex and the
thalamus. Until they develop after 26 weeks, sensations of pain cannot be
experienced.

Prof Peter Hepper, of the foetal behaviour research centre at Queen's
University, Belfast, said there was not enough evidence to say that the foetus
experienced pain before 26 weeks. But he believed it was "better to be safe
than sorry".

darwin is also sorry for snapping at mahaksadasa without first expressing his position on the issue he snapped about.

quote:

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Originally posted by VdK:
And what about Trinad api sunishnita (?) ? Or the humble sage sees with equal vision? there is also 'the killer of the soul, whoever he may be, goes to the darkest regions of hell. Such a birth is exactly that - so let them live, for thus carry they off their karma, whether you buy into that or not. The parents,as evident from my previous post, also realise some heavy karmic stuff and that is not to be sneezed at. Being a doctor is not an easy job, I can tell you, for I do understand you Priestess, although I do not agree. Karma is at any rate beyond our ken and nothing happens for nothing.

---

The whole concept of karma as expressed on this forum is false and is one of topmost evil religious dogmas in the world.

quote:

---

Originally posted by survivor:
. There is no way in the world thsi baby will be "normal" in any way.

What is the right thing to do in this case?

Please give reasoning behind answer....

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Dear Survivor,

My sister was told that, conclusively according to their tests, that her baby had just such a condition. They weren't in any doubt and tried to convince her to abort. She just could not do it.

My niece is one of the cutest, smartest kids you could meet. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her.

After this,I don't think there can ever be an absolute surity that the fetus is so totally damaged. Personally, I would not even consider aborting, rather I would accept the child's condition and give it the best life possible, complete with the highest level of exposure to KC possible. I would believe that for some reason this child had to be born so, and for some reason I was the mother.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mahaksadasa:
women are the victims of male dominated society that refuses to take responsibility.

---

If one has a problem like you describe, the intelligence must be used to prevent, not the scalpel. I knew a devotee girl way back when who had seventeen abortions before she became a devotee. Her problem was that if anyone even looked at her, she became pregnant, but she learned that this was a metabolistic problem, so she could not mess around. The same goes for your scenario, you say the rubber broke, and this is the solution, but what about the next time they "make love", another abortion? when does this stop.

If one has medications that have serious problems if pregnancy occurs, strict celebacy is the only answer, condoms are the most rediculous device ever invented unless they are used as water baloons.

Okay, wife is having major problems with her body, then why is the man demanding to make sure he gets his thrill from it? IT, IT, IT, this is the problem, we cannot see spirit, all we see is its.

THEY ARE MAKING LOVE...."IT" IS SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL

There is psuedo concern about the accidental pregnancy, where is the concern that God is the one who decides where the person takes birth and what condition that life exists in, which is karmically produced.

I DON'T BUY INTO THE WHOLE KARMA THING.......

And who says it will be horribly disfigured? The abortionist? Thoe ob/gyn gods who cannot even give natural birth without grabbing forceps, inducing labor, spinal taps and unnecessary c-sections?

IT IS PROVEN, WIFE HAS MIDWIFE WHO CONCURS

If pregnancy takes place due to (come on, we all know why, kids), then the choice is no longer ours. Choice is something that one has for themselves, choice does not include choosing for others, this is force, coersion, tyranny.

I MAKE CHOICES FOR MY KIDS EVERY DAY, AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL THEY ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO MAKE THEIR OWN.

So, the question is rather ignorant, and suggests that sense control and ways of relationg to humanity are all out of whack. If a husband can only relate to the wife by plowing the physical fields (and vice versa, ladies), then there is no relationship and I do not feel sorry for their plight, and if they abort their child, may they have no mercy.

WOULD YOU WANT TO BE THAT CHILD, DESTINED TO LIVE A LIFE OF BEING A VEGETABLE ON MACHINES, MEDICATIONS, BRINGING SUCH LITTLE JOY TO YOURSELF OR THE REST OF THE WORLD, JUST TERRIBLE SORROW? (I'M TALKING WORST CASE SCENARIO OF HORRIBLE DISFIGURATION AND MENTAL PROBLEMS)

MY POINT IS THIS.........AS A PARENT, IF FACED WITH THIS DESISION, I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO, BUT I WOULD PROBABLY LEAN MORE TOWARDS EXTREMELY EARLY ABORTION. I WOULD MOURN THE DEATH OF MY CHILD, AND FEEL LIKE I MURDERED HIM/HER, BUT I WOULD HATE MYSELF EVEN MORE FOR BRINGING A CHILD INTO THIS WORLD KNOWING S/HE WOULD HAVE SEVERE PROBLEMS. I AM IN PAIN WHEN MY SON IS MADE FUN OF BECAUSE HIS EARS ARE LARGE....I COULD NOT IMAGINE KNOWINGLY ALLOWING A CHILD OF MINE TO SUFFER A LIFETIME. THAT WOULD BE CRUELTY IN MY OPINION.

>Situation:
Married couple have a child, but do not want another at this time. Wife has major problems with body, has to go on terrible medication for some time.....
It is known that if a woman becomes pregnant while on this med, the baby will without a doubt be terribly disfigured, deformed, you name it, IF the baby even survives.
Also, other forms of birth control cannot be used while on this med (anything in the woman's body)

OK, hubby and wife are using condoms,one day....the condom breaks. She is pregnant. There is no way in the world thsi baby will be "normal" in any way.

What is the right thing to do in this case?

Okay, wife is having major problems with her body, then why is the man demanding to make sure he gets his thrill from it? IT, IT, IT, this is the problem, we cannot see spirit, all we see is its.

There is psuedo concern about the accidental pregnancy, where is the concern that God is the one who decides where the person takes birth and what condition that life exists in, which is karmically produced.

And who says it will be horribly disfigured? The abortionist? Thoe ob/gyn gods who cannot even give natural birth without grabbing forceps, inducing labor, spinal taps and unnecessary c-sections?

If pregnancy takes place due to (come on, we all know why, kids), then the choice is no longer ours. Choice is something that one has for themselves, choice does not include choosing for others, this is force, coersion, tyranny.

Uttara's womb was destroyed, yet Pariksit was born okay. In my own case, we are old and the child should not have been okay, but it was and is. Yeah, her parents probably will die while she is still young, but so what? Someone else cares for her, not the parent, who provides biological passage and a little food and shelter, and this care sees her through, as He (Paramatma) has for thousands of births prior and future.

So, the question is rather ignorant, and suggests that sense control and ways of relationg to humanity are all out of whack. If a husband can only relate to the wife by plowing the physical fields (and vice versa, ladies), then there is no relationship and I do not feel sorry for their plight, and if they abort their child, may they have no mercy.

I am pro choice, which means that margaret sangers planned parenthood should be banned from all educational systems, for they deny choice in favor of abortion. They refuse to teach fetology in schools, actually labelling it pornography, they encourage children to submit to medical procedures without consulting parents while laws exist that forbid school nurses from giving an aspirin to a child with a headache.

Anyone who says that the pro-abortionist is pro-choice is a fool in my opinion. Pro choice means education freely given about the beautiful wonder and stern responsibility connected with utilization of the reproductive organs. Laying waste to the biological process is demoniac, and not a choice at all.

Situation:
Married couple have a child, but do not want another at this time. Wife has major problems with body, has to go on terrible medication for some time.....
It is known that if a woman becomes pregnant while on this med, the baby will without a doubt be terribly disfigured, deformed, you name it, IF the baby even survives.
Also, other forms of birth control cannot be used while on this med (anything in the woman's body)

OK, hubby and wife are using condoms,one day....the condom breaks. She is pregnant. There is no way in the world thsi baby will be "normal" in any way.

What is the right thing to do in this case?

Please give reasoning behind answer....