Mean spirited, penny pinching, "I had a bad life, so other kids should too", phony so-called anti abortionists who are angry that someone is getting layed; please give a real response to darwins post about John Salvi being in favor of welfare.

darwin as usually you missed my point entirely.My 'bad' childhood was a blessing.Beyond the relative appearance of good and bad, there is the Absolute Good.

You seem to think that those who have no quaruntee of a life time of Air Jordans have no need to exist.For there own good of course.

Typical liberal thought pattern.Upside down inside out backward and very very pompous.

Right to Life has nothing to do with your approval or dis-approval.It is granted by God not little darwin.

Jagat; darwin is sorry for being argumentative with you.

Mean spirited, penny pinching, "I had a bad life, so other kids should too", phony so-called anti abortionists who are angry that someone is getting layed; please give a real response to darwins post about John Salvi being in favor of welfare.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jagat:
Darwin, I am speaking in generalities. Of course you can find exceptions.

But the general bourgeois attitude is enshrined in Marie-Antoinette's "Let them eat cake."

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Marie-Antoinette was a member of the old ruling class, not the bourgeoisie. The original meaning of the term "bourgeois" was middle class or mercantile. During the industrial revolution, some of the mercantile class began to become rich and powerful. Marx means the capitalist class, living off of income from capital, when he uses the term bourgeois. I haven't seen anything on this forum that is exactly a "Marie-Antoinette" attitude. Even the posts from the mean spirited, penny pinching, "I had a bad life, so other kids should too", phony so-called anti abortionists on this forum seem to be more angry that someone is getting layed, than showing a "Let them eat cake" attitude.

Your delinquent servant, darwin

I have read your story about your own experience and I am sorry for your pain. I am also very impressed at how much you actually care about that child. In fact these feelings, but in the mother's, was something I was referring to in an earlier post, where I described a documentary I saw where a group of women described their experiences and every last one of them could NOT get over the pain and guilt and loss. And now I see that many would be fathers also go through much of this kind of pain after an abortion. I am better understanding your call for non-violent birth control, yet I still don't see that as the answer, or even anything WE can do(re/the title of this thread). I withdraw my callous question in this regards, 'why do you care?', and apologise for it.

When devotees expressed concern over nuclear war, SP is reported to have said that there would indeed be a nuclear war, but it could be averted by enough book distribution. We have seen the iron wall come down, the cold war end, a miracle to many of us who grew up with the air-raid drills where we were taught to crouch under our desks, wondering what in hell that would do to protect us from nuclear fallout, and wondering what it was going to feel like being turned to white ash in a second.

Chanting Hare Krsna and spreading the chanting of Hare Krsna is the only really viable solution I see; all other ideas seem like just another bandaid to put on the boil. I believe that is the answer to the question of this thread: "What can we do to stop abortion?". And I DON'T believe that means enforcing celibacy on people. (And I've never said or implied that anyone should attempt to stop persons from using non-violent birth control; I choose not to judge those who do.) I believe that the stronger the sound vibration of the Holy Name is felt, the more purified the whole society will become. As I also said somewhere else, celibacy is becoming a popular idea in our society(the 'non-devotee' one), and I personally attribute that to the increase in chanting the Holy Name that is going on since SP brought Krsna to the west.

Are you familiar with the 'hundredth monkey syndrom'? So many monkeys learned a skill, and it was found that when the knowledge had been learned by so many monkeys, monkeys all over the world achieved the skill spontaneously. So if a mechanical material skill can be passed like this through cosmic airways, what greater potencies will spread spontaneously by the vibrations of the Holy Name? I fully believe this to be the only real solution.

But I still respect your views as intelligent and sincere. I will find that quote from Srimad Bhagavatam re/the souls entry through the rain... Sorry I've delayed doing it.

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Originally posted by darwin:

Stop hiding, respond to darwin's post about John Salvi being in favor of welfare.

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Okay, I say give John Salvi two SSI checks a month, let him out of prison so that he can shoot some more abortionists.

Looks like we have a win win situation here darwin.

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Originally posted by Maitreya:

So ladies you do have the choice. Close the gate,and it should be steel enforced.

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Stop trying to use the abortion issue to promote your celibacy fetish.

Stop trying to prevent people from having sex by denying women access to birth control and using babies as hostages.

The average abortion doctor cares more about preventing abortion than you do.

Stop hiding, respond to darwin's post about John Salvi being in favor of welfare.

quote:

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Originally posted by VdK:
It may interest you that 1997 saw the removal of the head of the WMA - the 'mother'of the AMA - because he was an ex-nazi campdoctor.

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quote:

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Originally posted by VdK:
[B]

Those that advocate the 'boss of my own belly syndrome' should consider that if you cannot guard the entrance, you have already lost the right to be boss, since you have failed in your duty as boss.B]

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Sense control is the only solution,whether I like it or not.And I don't.But so what, it ain't my universe.

So ladies you do have the choice. Close the gate,and it should be steel enforced.Lock that door with giant deadbolts, cause those determined males are coming with their battering rams and sweet talk and they won't just listen to reason.

Not me though, you can trust me. I'll protect and provide forever and ever.

PS, to stop abortion, we all need to be celibate, so no pregnancy (or maria,jill and gertrude, to name but a few) can come about.
Those that advocate the 'boss of my own belly syndrome' should consider that if you cannot guard the entrance, you have already lost the right to be boss, since you have failed in your duty as boss.

quote:

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Originally posted by mahaksadasa:

So my friends, I repeat this in regard to the Abortion issue. As long as "life" is not known separate from the biological stuff, and crimes against apparent bio-gel is not given recognition, then there is no solution.

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An atheist can be on a higher moral platform than a person who thinks that they believe in god. An atheist thinks that when someone dies, they become non existent, and he thinks that non existence is bad condition to be in. He doesn't need to think that god will punish him for killing and he doesn't need to hear theories on what the soul is, he just knows that it's wrong to hurt sentient beings. An atheist doesn't think that there is a god witnessing when he does good things, but he does good anyway, knowing he will not be rewarded. In that way, the atheist can be closer to god and and have more knowledge of god than the person who thinks that they believe in god.

Martya loka, the world of death, all by heinous events, plucked from a womb or plucked from middle-age complacency by the cancer-chemo disease.

Lotsa killing always happens when discussing death issues, and abortion is a DEAD issue. Kill the fetus, no, kill the nurse, wait, what about the mother, how about the Roe-Wade judges, kill something, fer gods sake.

I still like "The End" by the Doors, despite the deep sadness of the lyrics, because of the deep sadness at living in martya loka where everything has an end.

Years ago, I witnessed a neighbor farmer dragging a live cow from a chain on his truck. I wanted to avenge such an act, but froze, I was unwilling to attack the farmer. When I asked my teacher, he said that in order to act like King Pariksit, first I have to become King. Then all my actions based of inner kindness developed by krsna consciousness would be seen as valid, and the horrible crimes would cease.

So my friends, I repeat this in regard to the Abortion issue. As long as "life" is not known separate from the biological stuff, and crimes against apparent bio-gel is not given recognition, then there is no solution.

As Srila Prabhupada so bluntly says to the worried disciple who asks him what to do with certain nuclear holocaust, "Chant Hare Krsna, become devotee, and make others into devotees", this is the same answer to all sides of the abortion issue. Martya loka continues, yet freedom from birth and death is a viable option.

darwin replied: This is the same type of braindead soul killing dogma that darwin's father likes to use to justify just not giving a damn. If you don't find allot of mentally ill people when you are slumming around in the third world, it's because they are already dead! Go back to your college and try to come up with a new theory.

Jagat then replied: This is where I am confused. This statement is in exact agreement with what I am saying. But I am not arguing that we should not give a damn.

darwin now replies: Only the non poor can afford the problems of the mind and soul, the same way only the rich can afford to be burned over 80% of their body and then live through months of agony in a burn ward. One should be very careful when discussing suffering. A few years ago, a devotee family, a 12 year old girl, her mother and grandfather were murdered by the girls father, at home after the sunday feast. (the father didn't go to the Temple). Our Temple president was shown on TV, saying how it was terrible but that it was their karma.

Your delinquent servant, darwin.

(darwin needs to add that the TP was in shock, the TV people may have picked the worst part to show on TV and that he spoke english as a second language.)

quote:

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Originally posted by darwin:
So emotions are not valid unless one is poor, in which case one will be too poor to have emotions.

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I was saying the exact opposite. The mental, spiritual and emotional life of the physically comfortable is different from those who are struggling to survive. This is why my next statement is valid.

Is it any wonder that the poor often have nothing but disdain for the middle-class liberal?

As they do for the Churches that try to impose a morality that goes against their self-interest. The plundering of the earth's resources is a true danger to the well-being of every human being. Is it not a sin against humanity, indeed against God, to destroy the earth so that people can scratch out a minimal, almost animal existence?

Darwin> If you don't find allot of mentally ill people when you are slumming around in the third world, it's because they are already dead!

This is where I am confused. This statement is in exact agreement with what I am saying. But I am not arguing that we should not give a damn. I am simply arguing that pro-life is not necessarily pro-life in every case. If you want people in the third world to care about abortion as a moral issue, you have to make sure that they have the kind of quality of life you have.